How much further can figure skating develop technically?

moriel · Oct 19, 2018

some things that id like to see encouraged (and that could bring more diversity to the sport).
- give bonus to combos where the second jump has higher BV than first. Stuff like triple-quad and double-quad, or double-triple. Currently those are not much used because its harder but gives no extra points.
- opposite directions jumps (maybe consider them a different elements, so one could do 4 3Lz in a program, 2 in one direction, and 2 in the other direction, for example). Keep the repetition rules same-ish though, so for example 4 triple lutzes would cover all the possible repetitions of triples.
- encourage stuff with wrong foot landings, like Dimitriev's 3Lz-3F
- add some gradation on difficult entries and exits, so there is a difference between adding some steps which are pretty standard for top skaters or jumping out of a spin or a cantilever, for example.

Shayuki · Oct 19, 2018

I agree that encouraging more interesting jump combinations would go a long way towards bringing some diversity to the jumping elements of the sport. The obvious thing is making a -3Lo combo more rewarding in comparison to -3T combos, but having additional bonus for the wrong foot landing jumps could even bring some combos like 3Lz-2F-2Lo which is quite interesting.

Perhaps giving combos such as these a 5% bonus to BV could allow for more options without still making it feel absolutely mandatory in order to be able to compete.

moriel · Oct 19, 2018

Shayuki said:
I agree that encouraging more interesting jump combinations would go a long way towards bringing some diversity to the jumping elements of the sport. The obvious thing is making a -3Lo combo more rewarding in comparison to -3T combos, but having additional bonus for the wrong foot landing jumps could even bring some combos like 3Lz-2F-2Lo which is quite interesting.

Perhaps giving combos such as these a 5% bonus to BV could allow for more options without still making it feel absolutely mandatory in order to be able to compete.

yep. maybe 5% to wrong foot combos and combos where a jump has a higher BV than the one before it (so 2T-4T > 4T-2T)

Metis · Oct 21, 2018

moriel said:
yep. maybe 5% to wrong foot combos and combos where a jump has a higher BV than the one before it (so 2T-4T > 4T-2T)

I think the issue with that is that it would benefit issues where the first jump in a combo is doubled or singled but the -3T/2T is tacked on to save the combo. Both your 2T-4T example and a 2T-3T where the 2T was intended to be a quad would benefit, and the latter is arguably a problem.

Mathman · Oct 22, 2018

Miller said:
I was thinking that Olympic high jumpers are invariably very tall (though there have been a couple, Franklin Jacobs and Stefan Holm, who were both under 6ft tall and could jump almost 2 feet above their height). However thinking about it, it's probably more about their having a higher centre of gravity that gets them over the bar, though, unbelievably, their C of G actually goes under the bar (because of the bend in their back).

Interestingly, this is the same trick that ballet dancers use to give the appearance of floating in the air. Same with footballers going up for a header. Or Michael Jordan doing a slam dunk. I don't know if there is any possible equivalence in figure skating. I think the closest might be a delayed Axel where the center of gravity begins to rotate before "you"seem to be rotating. (?)

Raising your arms over your head in a 'Tano or Rippon jump does elevate your center of gravity (about 15 cm or so?), but makes it harder to control both the revolutions and the landing, I think.

Edit: A skater like Jason Brown uses this technique for a split jump, or even a stag jump. By elevating the legs as he reaches the top of the C of G arc, he appears to be suspended at the top longer than physics allows.

chopinskate · Oct 22, 2018

It does happen in the better split jumps! Very nice to watch.

Is this the quality we're thinking about: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_(ballet)

Miller · Oct 23, 2018

^^ Love the costume i.e. Alina's DQ one. Would be wonderful if skaters could do something like this when doing a classical ballet piece, but I fear doing something like this length-ways rather than sideways as in a split jump is probably impossible on the ice

chopinskate · Oct 23, 2018

Split falling leaves exist. Not quite to the same extent, but there's that kind of an extension. Zagitova herself does one in her DQ.

Miller · Oct 23, 2018

chopinskate said:
Split falling leaves exist. Not quite to the same extent, but there's that kind of an extension. Zagitova herself does one in her DQ.

Yes, it's that 'delay in the air' effect I was thinking about.

Leo11Ha · May 21, 2019

i think quints are possible, and i think we will see a change in equipment in order to jump higher. (such as boots)

Mathman · May 21, 2019

Welocome, Leo11Ha, and thanks for joining us. Post often, post long! :rock:

Mathman · May 21, 2019

I kind of rebel against the idea that "tech" means "jumps." Can figure skating technique evolve is other ways?

How much further can figure skating develop technically?

moriel

Shayuki

moriel

Metis

Shepherdess of the Teal Deer

Mathman

chopinskate

Miller

chopinskate

Miller

Leo11Ha

Mathman

Mathman

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