Women and the Quad

RobinA said:

Quad, Shmad. I'll believe someone is a quad threat when I see them complete it with an adult female body. So far the Russian quads I'm seeing are being done by girls. Even Russian uber-coaches can only hold off puberty for so long.

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Am I the only one who'd prefer to see more grace and loveliness, or at least some basic polish - such as pointed toes, full extensions, graceful arms, and straightened legs, (instead of bent knees, flexed feet, frantic arms and vulgar miming) - in place of quads?

ETA: I like quads and quads watch, very much. (Just not replacing other things.)

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Casual said:

Am I the only one who'd prefer to see more grace and loveliness, or at least some basic polish - such as pointed toes, full extensions, graceful arms, and straightened legs, (instead of bent knees, flexed feet, frantic arms and vulgar miming) - in place of quads?

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"This thread here is dedicated to keeping track of various quad attempts from all ladies (senior and junior) and analyzing them."
I suppose that maybe, if you are not interested in quads, you should not come to this thread, since this thread is basically dedicated to track quad attempts.

el henry said:

No, and despite frantic attempts to cast the question as:

Oh nooooo it's not fair :sad21:

I'd rather see polish, extension, graceful arms and all that for men, as well as women, rather than umptdy dumptdy gazillion quads.

I like to talk about what I like to see rather than what I don't like to see.

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For men it's less of an issue - because, astoundingly, the top men skaters nowadays are often lovelier and more graceful than top ladies. And they do quads on top of it!

It's really strange and blows gender stereotypes out of the water, but top female figure skating seems of lesser artistic quality than men's.

moriel said:

"This thread here is dedicated to keeping track of various quad attempts from all ladies (senior and junior) and analyzing them."
I suppose that maybe, if you are not interested in quads, you should not come to this thread, since this thread is basically dedicated to track quad attempts.

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Don't take me wrong, I like the quad watch. It's exciting. I just like the other things more, and would hope to see them not get overlooked in all the excitement over quads.

As for a fully grown adult female body not being able to handle quads - we'll see.

The guys do them, and even "older" guys learn them successfully nowadays - the girls will get there, too. Maybe not with "Eteri technique", but someone someday will learn to do quads well into her adult years. Just like the male skaters did.

Casual said:

Don't take me wrong, I like the quad watch. It's exciting. I just like the other things more, and would hope to see them not get overlooked in all the excitement over quads.

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Then please start another thread on the other things you like more instead of trying to derail a thread literally dedicated to "all the excitement over quads" by talking about all those other things you'd rather be watching.

Trusova really blows my mind when it comes to her jumping ability. Shcherbakova has those tight rotations but there is also something kinda frail about her to me. Obviously she's very strong (she nails those jumps) but visually she looks less stable than some of the other quad jumpers. Trusova is just a little stick of dynamite. The thing that impresses me the most is her power. She's tiny but she gets a lot of height in addition to her lightning fast rotations. I feel like if puberty slows her rotation down she may be able to compensate for it with height.

Of Eteri's Triple A squad I prefer Kostornaia over the other two. Despite the fact both Shcherbakova and Trusova hit a quad lutz in their FS, Kostornaia missed gold at nationals by only 3.24 points. We saw that amazing 3A from her in practice last year...anyone know if Kostornaia plans to add it or a quad? Given her jumping ability and the fact she trains with the other two, I feel like she just may be biding her time and will add it in later. For now she's playing it safe and that's smart. She has the PCS advantage and given that the quads are usually hit or miss for the other two, she plays the odds. It worked at the JGPF, not so much at nationals. Worlds will be the tiebreaker.


Women's skating is going to continue to move forward and right now, the 3A and quad squads are the ones pushing the sport. Even if those jumps don't last in the long run they will be here for the short term and during that time those who have them will likely win the titles. In order to be able to compete skaters will have to step up their game. I expect we'll see a lot more 3A and quad attempts in the next 3.5 years heading into 2022. I do feel like there's more value in a long career and that's what makes me a bit sad when it comes to the current quad/3A girls. If they aren't landing these jumps by 2022 and someone younger is, they likely will not win. BUT that's the way of the sport. For now, I'm just enjoying the fireworks!

neusw said:

Then please start another thread on the other things you like more instead of trying to derail a thread literally dedicated to "all the excitement over quads" by talking about all those other things you'd rather be watching.

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How about continuing this thread, but expanding to include "honorable mention to those whose quads are the best quality", (and maybe even "a prize for overall top notch performance")?

Even if keeping it exclusively to quads, not all quads are created equal, right? Some are better than others. Quality matters, no?

kwanatic said:

Trusova really blows my mind when it comes to her jumping ability.

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Me too. I like Trusova. Her jumps seem lighter. Like no effort.

Casual said:

Me too. I like Trusova. Her jumps seem lighter. Like no effort.

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Agreed. Her 3Lz-3L is incredible. She snaps her rotation so quickly it's insane. It seems like her blade barely hits the ice before she's back up for the 3L in that combo. I'd imagine she'll start adding 3As soon. I've seen both her and Shcherbakova's off-ice 3As and they are completely backwards.

These girls could beat a good portion of the men competing today...

I would like it if the 2022 olympic champion is a girl who landed quads or/and 3A in her programs. Women skating stagnated a loooooooooooooooooong time before the two previous seasons. There was nothing out of ordinary. Ito was doing 30 years back same or harder tech contents than oly champs like Arakawa, Kim and Sotnikova.
Now we see more 3-3los, 3As and quads.
Kostornaya would be the perfect skater if she add 3A/quads in her programs. She can beat clean Trusova and Shcherbakova next season with only 3A. Because she will have huge lead in SP (3A+huge pcs+ the fact that Trusova abd Shcherbakova can't jump quads in SP) and will match their scores in LP with two 3As. But for now, though her pcs allow her to compete with quad girls, she can't win against a clean Trusova and can just match a clean Shcherbakova. Her jump elements are just too easier. Her hardest jumps are 3F-3T/3S-3T/3F-2T-2T/3lz. While Shcherbakova's are 4lz/3F-3lo/3lz-3T/3F-lo-3S, Trusova's 4lz/4T/3lz-3lo/3F-3T/3lz-lo-3S (and she can even do 4lz/4T-3T/4T/3lz-3lo/3lz-lo-3S).
The last two are just in another world technically and should rightfully win when they are clean.
I hope that next olympic champion will have that kind of layout.

yume said:

I would like it if the 2022 olympic champion is a girl who landed quads or/and 3A in her programs. Women skating stagnated a loooooooooooooooooong time before the two previous seasons. There was nothing out of ordinary. Ito was doing 30 years back same or harder tech contents than oly champs like Arakawa, Kim and Sotnikova.
Now we see more 3-3los, 3As and quads.
Kostornaya would be the perfect skater if she add 3A/quads in her programs. She can beat clean Trusova and Shcherbakova next season with only 3A. Because she will have huge lead in SP (huge pcs+ the fact that Trusova abd Shcherbakova can't jump quads in SP) and will match their scores in LP with two 3As. But for now, though her pcs allow her to compete with quad girls, she can't win against a clean Trusova and can just match a clean Shcherbakova. Her jump elements are just too easier. Her hardest jumps are 3F-3T/3S-3T/3F-2T-2T/3lz. While Shcherbakova's are 4lz/3F-3lo/3lz-3T/3F-lo-3S, Trusova's 4lz/4T/3lz-3lo/3F-3T/3lz-lo-3S (and she can even do 4lz/4T-3T/4T/3lz-3lo/3lz-lo-3S).
The last two are just in another world technically and should rightfully win when they are clean.
I hope that next olympic champion will have that kind of layout.

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I would prefer the next Olympic champion land proper quads, not this 180 degree prerotated flooptzing we're seeing from Trusova and Shcherbakova. To be fair, Alysa Liu's 4Lz attempt falls in the same category and I'm yet to see a convincing 4T from a woman. I do approve of Trusova's 4S, however, and wish she did more of those. The 2018 JWC 4S was lovely.

Well, i said that kind of layout, not that kind of jumps. So i didn't especially said Trusova or Shcherbakova will be the next oly champ. Though i will be happy to see them win with their "improper quads". Those who will dislike will be free to dislike.

lzxnl said:

I would prefer the next Olympic champion land proper quads, not this 180 degree prerotated flooptzing we're seeing from Trusova and Shcherbakova. To be fair, Alysa Liu's 4Lz attempt falls in the same category and I'm yet to see a convincing 4T from a woman. I do approve of Trusova's 4S, however, and wish she did more of those. The 2018 JWC 4S was lovely.

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Meh, rather 4Lz "Flooptzing" than 3Lz "Flooptzing". Also, it's a Lutz, like it or not. Nowhere near a Loop.

And BTW, you don't consider Trusova's 4T convincing? She gets more height on it than most men. Issue?

Shayuki said:

Meh, rather 4Lz "Flooptzing" than 3Lz "Flooptzing". Also, it's a Lutz, like it or not. Nowhere near a Loop.

And BTW, you don't consider Trusova's 4T convincing? She gets more height on it than most men. Issue?

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Her 4T is really a triple toe axel; jumps forward, which surprises me when she said she couldn't do a regular 3A.

It's not really a lutz if you don't vault off a toe and turn with almost the full blade and jump forwards.

lzxnl said:

Her 4T is really a triple toe axel; jumps forward, which surprises me when she said she couldn't do a regular 3A.

It's not really a lutz if you don't vault off a toe and turn with almost the full blade and jump forwards.

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ISU says otherwise, sorry.

lzxnl said:

Her 4T is really a triple toe axel; jumps forward, which surprises me when she said she couldn't do a regular 3A.

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Because a 4T isn't a 3A. 4T also tends to jump forward. Even Hanyu's does.

Shayuki said:

Because a 4T isn't a 3A. 4T also tends to jump forward. Even Hanyu's does.

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Check out Hanyu's Rostelecom 2018 SP, amongst others. The 4T there was jumped off facing sideways and fully in the air by 180 degrees. Or Yuna Kim's 3Lz+3T for her Sochi FS; she takes off at 90 degrees and is fully in the air by 180 for both toe jumps. Compare that to Trusova's Vancouver JGPF 2018 FS; she jumps off facing forwards, and that's not a toe loop. Jumping off the left foot facing forwards is an axel takeoff.

In other news, we all saw Alina’s 4F on the harness. I really hope she is just doing it to improve the rotation and height of her 3F, not to actually try a quad off the harness. She struggles with rotating her triples, so a quad just isn’t realistic for her.