Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
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The commentator says "And a brave quad-" in Finnish before the cut.
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- Jul 3, 2018
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I read an interview from 2014 with Liza Tuktamysheva where she said she wanted to work on 4T, but then I can’t find anything else about it...
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Yep, Ando's ONE ratified 4sal would probably even be a DG now. Same with Slutskaya's 3Z-3L.
Not to mention that there are seniors who are capable of doing quads, and are now working on them. I do not believe this was true before last year and Trusova. By next year, Ting (senior), Rika (senior) and Alysa (Jr.) might be putting them in their programs.
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- Nov 4, 2010
And what is "adult female body" for you, I wonder? Does Tursynbaeva's body qualify? No? Isn't it blatant body shaming then?Also I have a hunch that Rika Kihira jumping 3A with her child body wouldn't trigger any kind of indignation from you whereas russian juniors doing man's skating elements as well - would.. for some mysterious reason
Body shaming? My comments have nothing to do with body shaming. It's a well known fact (I thought) that women's bodies change as they mature, and in ways that don't make rotating quickly in the air any easier. How long have you watched figure skating? The highway to Olympic gold is full of female skating prodigies who couldn't make the puberty jump. Largely because they were no longer able to rotate the jumps. Especially since more rotations became a requirement. I'm not sure what your point is about Rika Kihira and russian juniors is. Puberty is not a national thing. We constantly hear about child wonders, always females, who can do this, that and the other in the pre-senior ranks. My general rule, which I was stating in my original comment, is that I don't get excited about any skater until her body changes and we see how she skates with an adult body.
As far as (from the previous post) the percentage of females who could do a triple pre-puberty and then after puberty? I have no idea, but I suspect there is a significant number who cannot. Some can, and those are the women we see on elite ice. Anyway, anyone should try whatever they want to try. That doesn't change the fact women's bodies and men's bodies are not the same, which leads to different abilities and strengths on the ice. Is there a better explanation for the number of male 3As done in competition and the number of female 3As done in competition?
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- Jan 25, 2013
Sorry, but Ando never rotated any 4S, all her attempts had UR.
Not all her attempts were UR - the ones at Junior Worlds 2003 looked sufficiently around. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xR68Q4X45hg The one at 45 seconds in particular looked perhaps sufficiently rotated (hard to tell from the angle).
Despite what anyone thinks, history will always have Ando as the first ratified clean quad for women. Standards for rotated jumps were different 15 years ago and her quad was ratified as clean, so it counts.
For all we know Dick Button's first triple loop could have been UR but it was still ratified as the first ever clean triple.
Going by today's IJS standard where even a quarter turn is now considered UR, previously ratified jumps may not have been validated, such as Trusova's quad salchow from WJC last year which to me is right on the quarter turn and may not have been ratified as cleanly rotated this season https://youtu.be/AziEJ8tvbpE
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- Nov 6, 2014
No, it's UR, everywhere UR. This can be seen even in such a terrible video quality. I've already seen this video.
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- Jan 6, 2018
Why do people insists on taking achievement from Miki Ando? She was the first to land a quad.
Trusova was second. She was first to land multiple quads.
Trusova was second. She was first to land multiple quads.
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- Oct 21, 2018
https://www.instagram.com/p/BimTUCMl2j8/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1avbv9bim81qm
Anita Ostlund’s 4T attempt, just a quarter under!
Anita Ostlund’s 4T attempt, just a quarter under!
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- Aug 26, 2017
I do feel like we should wait a little. Young skaters are able to rotate much faster. It will be interesting to see who retains their ability to do quads. Still it is a big accomplishment for these ladies to do quads successfully. Hopefully they don't injure themselves to the point where a senior career will be impossible.
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- May 19, 2018
How long did the men struggle with quads before someone actually managed them in competition? People were probably having the same debate about men landing triples, then women landing triples. It only seems impossible until someone does it.
A post-puberty woman has to get a consistent quad eventually. It might be someone from this batch of juniors, it might be someone trained by one who retires and becomes a coach years down the line, or it might be someone completely unexpected. But I doubt that it won't be someone, someday.
A post-puberty woman has to get a consistent quad eventually. It might be someone from this batch of juniors, it might be someone trained by one who retires and becomes a coach years down the line, or it might be someone completely unexpected. But I doubt that it won't be someone, someday.
When all the ladies were trying 3As, we also doubted.
The thing is, with so many girls trying quads, some eventually will be able to retain them.
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- Feb 14, 2018
Browning discussed training the 4T in secret in his interview with TSL. He would go to his car after a training session, pretend to leave, make sure everyone had left, and then practice it in secret. (And his 4T was the first quad landed in competition in 1988.) Orser also trained quads but never tried them in competition, probably because of how much the 6.0 system penalized falls. Women were working on quads in the same era. (Bonaly beginning in 1991, in competition.)
I think the dominance of quads are partly due to CoP and partly due to fewer “firsts” left to master — we’ve invented the Biellmann and the Besti squat, for example. There’s not too much non-jump content left, basically. Think about how spin values and levels work in CoP — if we hadn’t already found the Biellmann, we’d probably still see it invented now, but the immediate reaction likely wouldn’t be “WOW” but rather “Is that going to count as a difficult variation for the tech panel?!”
In terms of new jumps, there are only so many ways to take off and land. CoP has largely killed variations and non-double jumps, unfortunately. You can technically still do a delayed single Axel in the choreographic sequence, at least, but when you think about how much you have to cram into 4 minutes to get those levels... gone are the days of throwing in combinations willy-nilly.
The women are largely following the men in terms of development: quad landed and ratified, no forward movement for a decade or so, then suddenly new variations on the quad and quads losing their novelty status. (1988 for the guys, with quads being a new normal in 2002, and 2002 for the women — we’ll see if this is the new normal.) We do have far more women landing the 3A, however, which I think has traditionally been seen as the final frontier for ladies, though Trusova has really moved the Overton window as of late.
Talking are about the specific quad.
Ando was first to land 4S.
Trusova did 4T, 4T3T and 4Lz.
Shcherbakova first landed 4Lz3T and Trusova followed. Shcherbakova also did two lutzes.
Etc...
Ando was first to land 4S.
Trusova did 4T, 4T3T and 4Lz.
Shcherbakova first landed 4Lz3T and Trusova followed. Shcherbakova also did two lutzes.
Etc...
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- Oct 21, 2018
Ekaterina Kurakova landed a 4S-3T in practice! The video is on yt and also on ig. It might be a bit under tho.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BeOvbj9F9Qf/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1wo739oqtm28o
https://www.instagram.com/p/BeOvbj9F9Qf/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1wo739oqtm28o
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- Nov 19, 2017
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- Jan 10, 2014
Quads may be impressive for some but for me, I much rather watch Liza's beautiful 3A or Caro's impressive 3Lz, both with excellent technique, helping them keep their jumps through senoirs, and the rotations are done in the air. Hoping they share the European or Worlds podium this season .
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