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Thread: What skaters have left the biggest legacy?

  1. #61
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I would also add the skaters who paved the way for others to come after them. One example is Yao Bin, without whom we probably could not rave about Sui/Han right now. Another one is Yuna Kim, who settled herself as an example for the young Korean skaters of nowadays (on her part, she credits Michelle Kwan as her main inspiration growing up). I'm surely forgetting so many others who deserve to be in this list and we can only hope that some of the skaters from the small federations (e.g. Fernandez, Julian Yee, Martinez) will leave a similar legacy.

  2. #62
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    Wow

    I don't know that it was so much that "this athletic skating was not acceptable" as that they didn't want to see the same triple jump over and over, and weren't seeing toe loops and toe walleys as sufficiently different to warrant more than one of each (the new rule considered them the same jump for purposes of counting repeats). Zayak was not the only skater at the time including multiple triple toes in the same program, just the one who had benefitted most obviously from repeating the same skill.

    Some of those other skaters were men, who also lost any advantage they might have gained from repeating the same jump. (Here's one example from the same 1982 Worlds.)

    So we could read the message of the rule not so much as "We don't want to see that many triple jumps from women -- show us what else you can do" but instead, to all skaters who inflated their jump count with repeats, "You think you're such a great jumper? Go learn more types of triples and show us what else you can do with jumps as well as other skills.


    Remember, in the 1980's, the women were only doing three types of triples. The toe Wally and toe loop were considered different jumps too. In defense of Elaine, she was the one who initially revolutionalized women's figure skating with those triple jumps. This was before Ito, Harding, etc.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple loop View Post
    Remember, in the 1980's, the women were only doing three types of triples. The toe Wally and toe loop were considered different jumps too. In defense of Elaine, she was the one who initially revolutionalized women's figure skating with those triple jumps.
    All the different triples except axel had been landed by at least one woman as of the 1982 ISU Congress -- just not yet all by the same woman let alone in the same program. It was not at that time necessary for women to include multiple different kinds of triples in order to win, but I think the point of the rule was that variety and quality should count more than sheer quantity.

    If the whole point had been to limit the quantity of triples women could include in a program, it would have been worded differently and the rule would have been different for men than for women.

    This was before Ito, Harding, etc.
    Ito was on the radar in juniors by 1982. She had already placed 8th and 6th at 1981 and 82 Junior Worlds by winning the freeskating but being too far behind in figures to medal. She had already landed 3T+3T combination (and sometimes included more than two 3T in her programs). I'd have to do some more research to see how many different triples she had landed at that time.

    Essentially, she was in a similar position in 1982 as Trusova is right now.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To tell the truth, Kurt Browning is the only skater whose full body of work sticks in my mind. I can easily picture Casablanca, Brick House, Nyah, Play that funky music white boy, Singin' in the Rain, the Clown, Don't Fence me in.
    In addition to that, Browning was also the first man to land a quad in competition, which means he automatically makes the legacy list, in my opinion. Some firsts are that important — but, as a general rule, I think if a skater is “first” to do something and you can actually recall the moment and/or their programmes, that’s a good indication that they’ve had a real impact on the sport.

    Elaine Zayak has a legacy within ISU rules but does anyone remember her skating? Sincere question.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappo View Post
    I would also add the skaters who paved the way for others to come after them. One example is Yao Bin, without whom we probably could not rave about Sui/Han right now. Another one is Yuna Kim, who settled herself as an example for the young Korean skaters of nowadays (on her part, she credits Michelle Kwan as her main inspiration growing up). I'm surely forgetting so many others who deserve to be in this list and we can only hope that some of the skaters from the small federations (e.g. Fernandez, Julian Yee, Martinez) will leave a similar legacy.
    I would like to add Midori Ito and Denis Ten.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harriet View Post
    There's legacy, and then there's infamy. That's infamy.

    But regarding the question of Katarina Witt's performance legacy, what leaps to my mind when I think of her isn't Carmen, it's Robin Hood. So that's two nameable programs for her!
    1988's showgirl SP for me, it's utter genius of choreography.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To tell the truth, Kurt Browning is the only skater whose full body of work sticks in my mind. I can easily picture Casablanca, Brick House, Nyah, Play that funky music white boy, Singin' in the Rain, the Clown, Don't Fence me in.
    What was the music to his 91/92 SP please, as I don't ever remember hearing it again anywhere?

  8. #68
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    Torville and Dean obviously. By 1982 with Mack and Mabel, the ice dance world had changed forever, and would never go back to being the same again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LandShark View Post
    What was the music to his 91/92 SP please, as I don't ever remember hearing it again anywhere?
    It was several different pieces stitched together. Browning discusses the process in his book Forcing the Edge, but I don't own a copy to check the names of the pieces.

  10. #70
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    I do because I watched her in the 1980's as a teen. Zayak was the first female to do 7 triple jumps in her long program. That was unheard then. She was terrific and that's my personal opinion. She is more than a Rule. Check her out in 1981 worlds or nationals on you tube.

  11. #71
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    Sonja Henie, for popularizing the sport and becoming the first figure skating celebrity.

    Dick Button, all of his contributions to the sport over the years. He is Mr. Figure Skating.

    Peggy Fleming, as the first true figure skating artist.

    Janet Lynn, for beginning the movement towards free skating and away from figures.

    Midori Ito, for still having the best (and still one of the few) ladies triple axels after all of these years.

    Torvill and Dean, for showing that ice dancing belongs at the Olympics.

    Shen and Zhao, for ending Russian dominance in pairs skating and beginning the Chinese pairs skating era.

    Evgeny Plushenko, for his longevity and demand that men’s skating include quads.

    Scott Hamilton, for following in Dick Button’s footsteps as a promoter of the sport.

    Michelle Kwan, for having the best body of work. No other skater has as many inspired, artistic performances, both competitive and exhibition.

  12. #72
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    Which skater(s) have left the biggest Legacy. I guess it depends on definitions of what you consider is a legacy.

    To me Sui and Han and P/C are great skaters but not really legacy skaters. to me to be a legacy is something rare and cherished. So if for example you named a lot of skaters in the last few years as legacy well then I am not sure there is much of legacy as it seems it is so easy to be legacy. A legacy is to me a rarity, the unusual For example P/C are excelelnt ice dancers but so far they are not a legacy skating pair compared to say no Olympic gold Bourne and Kraatz who were innovators. P/C do some pretty skating like Yamaguch whose skating as an amateur while good and winning medal probably isn't legacy quality - after wards though she dominated the pro circuit. Likewise wonderful skilland skating from Tara and Sara but not legacy skating. On the other hand, regardless of medal there was something special and miraculous about Oksana Baiul. Excellence over a long period of time can get you in perhaps like Kwan who had such domnance for so long. Gordeeva and Grinkov have the medals and special skates to be legacy materials.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Which skater(s) have left the biggest Legacy. I guess it depends on definitions of what you consider is a legacy.

    To me Sui and Han and P/C are great skaters but not really legacy skaters. to me to be a legacy is something rare and cherished. So if for example you named a lot of skaters in the last few years as legacy well then I am not sure there is much of legacy as it seems it is so easy to be legacy. A legacy is to me a rarity, the unusual For example P/C are excelelnt ice dancers but so far they are not a legacy skating pair compared to say no Olympic gold Bourne and Kraatz who were innovators. P/C do some pretty skating like Yamaguch whose skating as an amateur while good and winning medal probably isn't legacy quality - after wards though she dominated the pro circuit. Likewise wonderful skilland skating from Tara and Sara but not legacy skating. On the other hand, regardless of medal there was something special and miraculous about Oksana Baiul. Excellence over a long period of time can get you in perhaps like Kwan who had such domnance for so long. Gordeeva and Grinkov have the medals and special skates to be legacy materials.
    Sorry to interject but:

    1. I think OP was looking at skaters historically so I think these are some unnecessary shots at skaters who are still in the midst of their careers and planning to compete in 2022. They have and will continue to build legacies.

    2. Legends already disagree with you. The flow and smoothness on the ice that P/C bring is one of a kind. Olympic gold medalists from Christopher Dean to Charlie White have acknowledged that. Everyone and their cousin has been trying to copy their style regardless whether we think it's a good development or not.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGFan View Post
    This is just blasphemous. Every single one of their free programs during the 1981-84 quad were masterpieces (and Bolero might be my least favorite). Their Paso Doble OSP from 1984 is one of my favorite things ever. Their professional programs were also amazing. The 1994 OD is still being emulated. I could write pages about them but I would just suggest watching. Christopher Dean is one of the all-time best male ice dancers. Utterly captivating.
    Start with Mack and Mabel. Geez, these kids today!

  15. #75
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    Well G and G have the most famous lasting legacy because of the obvious. Beauty grace two Oly Golds several world championships. The love story and his death at28 has left us with a pair that have eternal youth. All the other great Russian pairs pale compared to the G and G story. Simply Epic. It was like he was gifted to her for a time and us all and he did what he was born to do and then was called home. Sergei Grinkov. Great skater, handsome husband, loving Dad. Star quality with Katia who. Is still stunning and a truly lovely skater despite no jumps. She was born to do this fs thing. They didn’t invent moves but they did what they did so perfectly. Skating Skills and the tech content of those days was enough to win win win. Their unison was near perfect. Last of the great CSKA pairsbefore the first soviet empire fell. Yes implied is a second to come reading the news ��

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGFan View Post
    Sorry to interject but:

    1. I think OP was looking at skaters historically so I think these are some unnecessary shots at skaters who are still in the midst of their careers and planning to compete in 2022. They have and will continue to build legacies.

    2. Legends already disagree with you. The flow and smoothness on the ice that P/C bring is one of a kind. Olympic gold medalists from Christopher Dean to Charlie White have acknowledged that. Everyone and their cousin has been trying to copy their style regardless whether we think it's a good development or not.
    This is what I was thinking. When does a legacy become a legacy?

    Obviously since Papadakis / Cizeron are mid career, then it would seem ridiculous to talk of their legacy. But it is noticeable how in roughly three years they have changed the entire face of ice dance with many other couples attempting to recreate their style for themselves. When watching the Grenoble leg of the GP circuit, it was mentioned by the commentary team of the similarity of feel and mood that all the couples were skating to.

    Imitation the sincerest form of flattery?

    P/C have sown the seeds, and in years to come the crop will be harvested, until someone else comes along to change things.

  17. #77
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    Most of these are recent skaters, but it is possible to know when a team/skater will leave a legacy regardless of how long it's been since they competed.

    Yuna
    Sasha
    Mao
    Michelle
    Virtue/Moir
    Davis/White
    Savchenko/Massot (i'd even say Szolkowy too)
    Yuzu (not retired but it's a no brainer)
    Wagner (within US skating)
    Plushenko

  18. #78
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    Ted
    Not his skating career but his JGP work. Even though not finished yet, but the legacy is already there

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGFan View Post
    Sorry to interject but:

    1. I think OP was looking at skaters historically so I think these are some unnecessary shots at skaters who are still in the midst of their careers and planning to compete in 2022. They have and will continue to build legacies.

    2. Legends already disagree with you. The flow and smoothness on the ice that P/C bring is one of a kind. Olympic gold medalists from Christopher Dean to Charlie White have acknowledged that. Everyone and their cousin has been trying to copy their style regardless whether we think it's a good development or not.
    Everyone knew this thread would be divisive or heated lol I mean I find it hard that Shen and Zhao are included compared to Gordeeva and Grinkov especially inlight in winning their OGM they didn't even win the long program - but they are a great team but then so were G and G and T and M who actually eclipsed S and Z 0 original the record between the two favored S and Z and then miraculously T and M took over. I do respect S and Z leadingthe Chinese though but then why are we saying one team and one nation gets some crediblity should we look at Canada, USA, Russia for their leading teamstoo (et al? P/C do have a great smoothiness but so far have show a huge lack of diversity or limited scope in the freedance and though Gabby has improved her quality of skatiing has been somewhat suspect. Btu I guess it is all opinion I would include in ice danceTorvill and Dean, Klimova and Ponomarenko, Bourne and Kraatz, The Duchesnay's, and if you include PC then Krylova and Oksianikov, Usova and Zhulin, Gritschuk and Platov, Bestmianova and Bukin, Virtue and moir, Davis and White, M and M,and probably a few historic Russian teams. Which means the term legendary gets watered down.

  20. #80
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    Queen Yuna and Queen Mao. They are not only skating icons but some the biggest celebrities and public figures in their home country and national treasures. They brought figure skating to the masses and the depth of talent in japan and Korea has a lot to do with them. I recently visited Seoul and Tokyo and they are still relevant with advertisements of them all over the place. Not to mention the millions in endorsements they have brought in for companies. It’s quite remarkable.

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