GPF: Ladies' FS - Thoughts and Highlights

GoodMorningGrapeseed said:

This is too harsh. I don't agree with the results but Alina was injured, and quads will put her at more health risk.

Click to expand...

Harsh on Alina? Look at Landshark. Much harsher but posters can say their opinion.that is the point. It is not personal. She is a lovely girl. The people who tell her what to do every second - coach and choreographer should be called out. I want to see her choreography by Lori Nichol. We don’t get to see her skate as she is meant to. The girl is talented. Many hate her programs and the also hated Meds. It’s frenetic. She has great classic music and look what they give her. It is awful. Agree with Landshark totally.

skateluvr said:

I recently asked would she dethrone Satoko. Sadly she did. And more importantly Zagitova. She did. Alina deserves better programs. Awful choreography. They need to look for less frenetic movement and see why people prefer the programs of the Japanesse ladies.

She is aolympic a champion and already a newcomer beats her at GPF. Alina ought to learn a quad if she can.

Satoko is pure elegance and Kaori neeeds polishing of her arms hands head positions and turnout. Also they need to package her better. Gee last year Wakaba was 16 and slaying. Japan and Russia are so deep they will continue to dominate. It seems our Bradie Tennell can’t catch up. Mariah is wonderful this year but can’t be scored higher? Only Katelyn could wiggle in there for a medal.

This and the next year is the maxing out of ladies technical. Quads triple axels. The men have maxed out. The pairs have done difficult jumps at least at Olympics. We have seen it all technically. Now for some beautiful skating. Jason Brown can do well in men’s still. But the latest are all 16 and tiny and doing all the technical stuff. The programs are amazing blurs. There is no such thing as a slow art with control. I guess it is exciting but in ladies or should I say juniors and teens it was amazing Med won two world titles. I rooted forLiza but I feel she is the least interesting oaf the 6 GP finalists. And without a perfect 3 axel I feel her skating is slow and her sexy act pretentious.

The men- wow. Nathan Chen and Shoma and Jun is growing but a long way to go. Makes me sad Nathan didn’t win gold in Peyongchang. To do what he does while a full time student plus he is a good musician. Such a mega talent. Hanyu could never do that SP. Chen is best in world and no bias.

The pairs didn’t watch yet. I like two teams left. 3 retired last year and there is none like Aliona. The French and Russian teams are good but I’m not into pairs anymore. Ice dance - happy for Hubbell and Donahue. They are pure skaters. But I so Missed gabby and Guillaume. And Tessa and Scott. By the people viewing the GPF thread and all season we seem to have lost many many skating fans. I understand why. Too many greats retired or MIA.

Click to expand...

And Chen could never do Hanyu's SP. :sarcasm: No bias, Hanyu is the best in the world. Anyway, you should probably requote this in the men's highlights.

__________________________________________________________________________________


Rika shows that complete skaters can be recognized by the judges. Despite her early mistake her program quality didn't go down too much. Her road from NHK to IDF and now GPF, she has shown that she is such a fighter. I couldn't catch my breath during her skate.

A case can be made about Kaori and Liza getting higher GOE. It's a shame the powerful jumpers don't seem to get their due in this +5/-5 system.

Zagitova’s crown has slipped off a little more today and you could argue that it’s even completely slipped off but honestly, I don’t blame Alina at all. You can tell that she’s such a hard worker and is really committed and dedicated but she’s not getting the help she needs. The material this season, as has been said by everyone, is atrocious this season and totally unworthy of an Olympic Champion and a skater of Alina’s caliber. And I don’t know if Eteri is fully able to guide Alina properly now that’s he’s grown taller and hit puberty. It’s actually heartbreaking.

LandShark said:

Great entertainment. The finalists skated well. Enjoyed everyone's programme bar Zagitova's, which is truely awful. Ugly, jerky, every movement badly finished, too much hunched over skating instead of standing tall with good posture. Dreadful choreography; surely they can give her better thanthis?

A real shame.

Click to expand...

Calling it ugly, badly-finished, and dreadful is excessive and untrue.

It's just that some deficiencies were more evident here especially that she is compared to Rika, who has been trained better to possess every foundational quality desired of a skater (speed, edge, posture, technical content).

There was not a developed Rika Kihira in the previous year; she was only compared to another Eteri prodigy then because Marin Honda fell off.

I'm confused with people who are saying that Tuktamysheva's PCS should have been that low.

PCS = Skating Skills + Transitions + Performance + Composition + Interpretation of Music

Let's say skating skills and transitions are more objective things that can be measured. Performance and interpretation are subjective and I'm not 100% certain what composition is.

If Alina excelled in SS and transitions, she faltered greatly in performance and interpretation. Liza excelled in performance and interpretation and I think the argument is that she faltered in SS and transitions. Okay, I give you transitions but skating skills I don't buy. Even them I don't see Liza being a full 6 points behind Alina in PCS. Alina is always given these high performance and interpretation and never do I see her emote whereas skaters like Sakamoto, Mihara, Medvedeva, Bell and Tsurskaya who seem more connected to their music and perform are solidly behind Zagitova in PCS.

Then again, I'm sitting here like when has PCS ever been a serious measure of anything when I see people justifying the reigning Olympic winner receiving inflated PCS like that is the norm. Reputation is not one of the criteria for PCS, I wish they would give higher performance/interpretation marks to those who deserve it like Eunsoo Lim (SP not so much FS) or Mai Mihara who truly seem to connect with their music.

skateluvr said:

Hanyu could never do that SP. Chen is best in world and no bias.

Click to expand...

Oh I see, and that is why Yuzu's lowest mark in the SP this year, when he was having his usual slow kuyashii start, was 5-odd points ahead of Nathan's best so far this season?

But I agree, this should be in the men's thread if anywhere...

skateluvr said:

She is aolympic a champion and already a newcomer beats her at GPF. Alina ought to learn a quad if she can.

Click to expand...

No, Alina is better off not learning a quad. It'll damage her body even more.

It's also kind of excessive to say that a "already a newcomer beats her". Alina was in Rika's position just a year ago. It's not Evgenia's case where she had her hegemony for a couple of seasons.

I'm still sad that I couldn't watch this one live...

1. Rika Kihira
Too bad about the mistake, but she finished the rest of the program really well. She was always a strong skater both technically and artistically, but was pretty inconsistent. So it's great to see that so far this season, she has been delivering nothing but strong performance after another, even despite the mistakes. While I think she was overscored in PCS, she was definitely the winner here.
2. Alina Zagitova
Watching Alina is honestly so frustrating, because she's such a talented girl...with such weak programs. This Carmen FS is definitely stronger than that ridiculous SP, but it's still relatively weaker than the other ladies' programs. I'm sad to hear that she was injured here, and what she did was impressive considering the injury, but to see her constantly get the highest PCS despite there being better programs (and performances) is really irritating (yes she's the Olympic Champion, but it's about time we stop those reputation boosts). I hope that next season, her team can somehow come up with something better than what we've seen so far, because Alina deserves better than this.
3. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
I really think that Liza should've gotten the silver here. Her PCS was about right, but I think we can all agree that Alina is not 6 points better than her on that (but what's new, I guess...). Well, it was great to see her finally upgrade the technical content, and this bronze is a big statement heading into Nationals. I'm really happy that she's having her first good season since 2014-15, and I hope that she can eventually end the season on a good note.
4. Kaori Sakamoto
To score 141 despite a fall is a very good sign, though I'm a little confused as to why she opted to execute the 2T anyway despite the shaky landing on the 3T, especially considering that she could've just tacked it onto the 3F-2T right after (maybe it was just the heat of the moment?). Anyways, I'm really proud of Kaori - she has really come a long way. Her speed and flow on the ice is always exquisite, and it really helps with the overall performance, even if her artistry is not the best. I hope she rests well until Nationals.
5. Sofia Samodurova
Sofia is continuing to wow me with her consistency. She demonstrated this very well in her junior season, but to see her keep doing it on the senior level just comes to show how strong she is mentally. I feel that with every outing, her artistry and performance abilities are getting stronger and stronger. Her spot on the Russian World team is not a complete lock, but she should get it as long as she does what she did on the GP at Nationals.
6. Satoko Miyahara
I'm really heartbroken for her, but I can't say the judging was wrong here. Her jumps were more questionable than usual, and she wasn't as strong as usual on the performance side too. I just hope that she won't be too hard on herself for the result here, and just focus on rebounding at Nationals.

TallyT said:

Oh I see, and that is why Yuzu's lowest mark in the SP this year, when he was having his usual slow kuyashii start, was 5-odd points ahead of Nathan's best so far this season?

But I agree, this should be in the men's thread if anywhere...

Click to expand...

Yes it should be just thought I was in the overall thread. I love Hanyu but this Nathan kid is full time at Harvard and he skates like this? He is apparently Superman. I see Hanyu as very talented and very lucky ie remember Sochi? I don’t care about scores. 5 points is nothing. Hey I love Hanyu too. He has amazing moments and some skates that were magical. Imagine if Chen skated full time? The mind reels.

Alina is only about 2 months older than Rika and didn't Rika have a junior GP debut a season earlier than Alina? I feel Rika has been out in the field for a long time. So I don't really see Rika as a newcomer. Rika has not improved that much in all aspects except for her 3A and consistency. I wish Marin can jump better because Rika is far from polished than Marin and of course Satoko. Her sp had better effects though I don't like the sleepy music but she did not perform in her LP, just going from element to element. I am actually very proud for what Alina has achieved this season.

leoleo said:

Not really. Her programs are empty, her skating skills aren't fantastic! what should be higher are her GOEs because she is the best jumper in the field and she is not rewarded enough. Maybe judges just don't like that she telegraphs :confused2:

Click to expand...

I will be a bit more nuanced. The fact that Alina still got the highest PCS despite a rushed and frenetic FS where the choreo was frankly awful is what I suspect got people confused. Between Rika, Alina and Liza Tuks, suffice to say Rika has the best SS among them but I think Zagi and Tuks are about on par with SS. In this programme, I think Alina was not performing and interpreting to her level at the olympics. I will say Liza did better here. Transitions are where a Tuks will be clearly weaker. I think PCS is overly generous. Just based off overall performance, my personal take is Rika is about 68, Alina is about 66 and Liza Tuks also about 66. Satoko is the only one whom I think is close to 70 but even her performance lacked the finesse and precision in SA.

Speaking of skating skills, Alina's skating during the warmup was awful. It looked like she was dragging her feet with her upper body. Should have suspected she was injured then.

Happy for Rika. But don't understand how the heck Alina's LP could beat Tukt?
6 triples vs 8, honestly, wth?
In fact, Tukt is the only lady now who could compete with Rika on even TES contents, but russian fed acts stupidly by not making her No.1 of the country and not giving her more GOE and PCS advantage

To be completely honest, based on just this competition and not reputation, Sofia should have beaten Zagitova.

skateluvr said:

Yes it should be just thought I was in the overall thread. I love Hanyu but this Nathan kid is full time at Harvard and he skates like this?

Click to expand...

At Yale. We, Yalies, are proud to have him here

skateluvr said:

Yes it should be just thought I was in the overall thread. I love Hanyu but this Nathan kid is full time at Harvard and he skates like this? He is apparently Superman. I see Hanyu as very talented and very lucky ie remember Sochi? I don’t care about scores. 5 points is nothing. Hey I love Hanyu too. He has amazing moments and some skates that were magical. Imagine if Chen skated full time? The mind reels.

Click to expand...

You don't work at a university, I take it.

Back on topic - though I'm not much into the women's field, I do sometimes read threads and the wild swings after every competition makes my head reel sometimes.

skateluvr said:

Harsh on Alina? Look at Landshark. Much harsher but posters can say their opinion.that is the point. It is not personal. She is a lovely girl. The people who tell her what to do every second - coach and choreographer should be called out. I want to see her choreography by Lori Nichol. We don’t get to see her skate as she is meant to. The girl is talented. Many hate her programs and the also hated Meds. It’s frenetic. She has great classic music and look what they give her. It is awful. Agree with Landshark totally.

Click to expand...

What is Landshark?

The Championship Interview was hilarious, as Rika's Japanese response got bigger applause than the English translation (in Vancouver!) Then the interviewer asked Kihira a question about the warmth received from all of the Japanese fans in attendance...and then those fans apparently decided that they were being disrespectful, and from that point on waited for the English translation to finish before applauding.

badknees said:

What is Landshark?

Click to expand...

The Land Shark is considered the cleverest of all sharks. Unlike the Great White shark, which tends to inhabit the waters and harbors of recreational beach areas, the Land Shark may strike at any place, any time. It is capable of disguising its voice, and generally preys on young, single women.

skateluvr said:

Yes it should be just thought I was in the overall thread. I love Hanyu but this Nathan kid is full time at Harvard and he skates like this? He is apparently Superman. I see Hanyu as very talented and very lucky ie remember Sochi? I don’t care about scores. 5 points is nothing. Hey I love Hanyu too. He has amazing moments and some skates that were magical. Imagine if Chen skated full time? The mind reels.

Click to expand...

It isn't 5 points difference, that is between Hanyu's lowest SP mark and Nathan's highest SP mark. Hanyu's world record SP this season is almost 20 points above Nathan's SP.

and for your information Hanyu is also a student of one of the top college in Japan, where he has mentioned the study load is very busy even if he attends it online. It's not like only Nathan studies and other skaters don't. Not to say due to his asthma and recovering from last year's injury, Hanyu actually has the least amount of on-ice training time (only 10 hrs a wk) for men this year based on the ISU website. Despite that he is still breaking records one after the other.

Hanyu is of course very lucky, as is most figure skaters, but whatever happened in Sochi was Hanyu skating better overall in two days not much different from what happened here when Nathan and Shoma were handing the gold back and forth between each other. Tired of the asterisks.

Talking about WHAT-IF'S also gets tiring. We can also imagine if Hanyu skated without his injuries impeding him? He had to cut back on adding 3 quads the season directly post-Sochi because of the crash at COC, pushing his tech plans back, and then also rewinding his tech (4lz and 4lo) last season because of injuries, pushing his tech plans back. Imagine if every time Hanyu got injured he didn't have to start jumping from just singles again or avoid some jumps because of pain. The mind reels.

Not just Nathan but loads of skaters have the potential and the talent to rival Hanyu, but everyone has something going on.