Ted Barton interviews Eteri Tutberidze | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Ted Barton interviews Eteri Tutberidze

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
I thought it's been established many eons ago, dont try pinning this on Urmanov.
If anything it was Eteri's own statements which gave away that the issue started from her.

Yulia's interview in 2017. She was battling anorexia for some time "not just for one year, or two, or three"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4285781

Eteri in 2014 proudly saying Yulia can exist just on powdered diet
https://www.google.com/amp/s/aletei...bling-trend-among-olympic-figure-skaters/amp/

And Zagitova's famous 'Just close your mouth and dont eat' statement
https://sputniknews.com/sport/201803221062800928-russia-skating-prodigy-zagitova/
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?71496-Sad-Article-about-Zagitova-s-Eating-Habits

I love that this post of factual evidence went completely "ignored". :laugh:

Quite telling.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
I love that this post of factual evidence went completely "ignored". :laugh:

Quite telling.

Taking random phrases out of interviews is hardly factual evidence. I, for example, could take another phrase from the same Yulia's interview when she said that only in 2015 did she start to experience weight problems when "even breathing air would lead to weight gain".

It is similar to another "factual evidence" when Zhenya said she could no longer work with Eteri while just after the OG she said that they are the team and continue to work.
 

melgirl25

Medalist
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
I don't think it is good to be in a place where you want one side to win just to spite the other side. :roll5:
 

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
I don't think it is good to be in a place where you want one side to win just to spite the other side. :roll5:

It's pretty childish and why I find it pointless to engage with those kinds of posters.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rika just win the GPF? Not sure how Rika being the GPF champion is an example of how Eteri just keeps on winning. :scratch2:
 

dobrevaria

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
It's not an excuse. It's an argument about double standards, and an extremely valid one. People are going after Eteri with pitchforks for things they forgive or ignore in other coaches. Look at how many pages of criticism have been written about Eteri, and how many pages have been written about the others. It's like comparing the number of fans Yuzuru has with the number of fans other skater have.

No one likes double standards, except for the ones who benefit from it.
You see, I absolutely hate double standards, so I'm definitely not making one right now. I know others coaches do it as well, that's a given and I don't like their actions at all. More than disliking their actions, I would like to see more discussions about those issues in the sport to keep athletes healthy.
But look at the title of the thread : "Ted Barton interview Eteri Tutberidze". That's Eteri Tutberdize we are talking about right now. Not others coaches or something but Eteri Tutberidze, so of course, the discussion is around her. It doesn't mean that the similar actions of others coaches are okay, it's not, and it will never be.
So for me, yes, it does sound like an excuse because it's blantant whataboutism.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rika just win the GPF?

What a powerful not childish argument! There is another one: Osmond won the latest WC. And Samodurova once won over Kostornaya and another time over Tarakanova while the latter was with Eteri. But "whatabout" Eteri's girls winning 42 times in 47 international competitions over the last 2.5 seasons beating Rika many times?
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
You see, I absolutely hate double standards, so I'm definitely not making one right now. I know others coaches do it as well, that's a given and I don't like their actions at all. More than disliking their actions, I would like to see more discussions about those issues in the sport to keep athletes healthy.
But look at the title of the thread : "Ted Barton interview Eteri Tutberidze". That's Eteri Tutberdize we are talking about right now. Not others coaches or something but Eteri Tutberidze, so of course, the discussion is around her. It doesn't mean that the similar actions of others coaches are okay, it's not, and it will never be.
So for me, yes, it does sound like an excuse because it's blantant whataboutism.

Sorry, to be a bit condescending - just my right of "an elder" - I am here since early 2014 and I experienced a barrage of threads about Medvedeva in 2016. When replying "whatabout" in one of those threads about how awful Zhenya's lutz was the answer was - "we are talking abot Medvedeva here". Very similar indeed. Over the last year and a half we have had more than a dozen critical threads about Eteri. "Whatabout" other coaches for a change? Was it a single thread about any US, Canadian or Japanese coaches's practices? Or they are all saints? Like Karen Chen's having ongoing health problem. Of course, her coach is no way to blame?

And on another note, Ted and Eteri did not cover her "practices". So, arguments raised by usual suspects and some newcomers have nothing to do with the topic
 

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
What a powerful not childish argument! There is another one: Osmond won the latest WC. And Samodurova once won over Kostornaya and another time over Tarakanova while the latter was with Eteri. But "whatabout" Eteri's girls winning 42 times in 47 international competitions over the last 2.5 seasons beating Rika many times?

Times a changin' toots.

And here we go with your default mode of defense: whataboutism.

Never mind the most recent major international competition where Eteri's girl lost! "What about" all the other times her girls won?

It's almost laughable how predictable it's become. ;)
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
"Weight is death." -- Frank Carroll, 1994. :)

You know what I mean. There might be random critical posts about different coaches. But over the years that I am here there has not being anything like anti-Medvedeva campaign in 2016-17 and anti-Eteri campaign during the last two years.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
"Weight is death." -- Frank Carroll, 1994. :)

You don't even need to go that far, i do remember few years ago him saying to Gracie Gold than the other girls are much more successful because they are thinner than you, as a sort of motivation to lose weight, and i wouldn't be surprised if he is the reason that caused Gracie's eating disorders.

These problems are common in figure skating, and yes weight does affect a jump, it's aerodynamics, at the same time coaches like Mishin proved you can work around it without forcing starvation, it all depends on the technique.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I was the one I think who originally used the term “whataboutism”, and I stand by it,

What about other coaches?
Don’t care. Bubkes to do with what Eteri does. My momma told me, two wrongs don’t make a right.

You’re just jealous.
I couldn’t identify an Eteri skater other than Alina and Sasha if you held a gun to my head:laugh: I don’t watch junior ladies. I don’t care if they land 85 quads. :bed:
What am I jealous of?

I follow individual skaters. Not countries. Not coaches. And criticizing a coach does not make me anything than a poster who thinks a coach got something wrong.
That is all. :think:
 

sx98423

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Times a changin' toots.

And here we go with your default mode of defense: whataboutism.

Never mind the most recent major international competition where Eteri's girl lost! "What about" all the other times her girls won?

It's almost laughable how predictable it's become. ;)

yes i would say times certainly are changing seeing as how eteri's girls were 1-2 at the JGPF and swept the podium at nats :laugh2: she's even more successful than before

as for this dieting discourse i agree eteri probably had something to do with yulia's ED (i wouldn't say she was a major reason for it but as a coach i'm sure she had some influence over that situation). i don't see how that has anything to do with her current girls. every situation is unique, anna probably wouldn't need to diet at all she looks like the type who has trouble putting on weight. some of the other girls might be able to keep their slim figures with just a healthy diet and other skaters might need to starve themselves to keep skinny. it's genetics what can you do, some people just aren't cut out for skating. whether or not eteri has realized this we'll never know unless she says something. the fact that her girls have said they can eat whatever they want during the holidays seems like a step in the right direction.
 

Sugar Coated

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
About the weight issue, Raf and TAT have both said that gaining weight, even small amounts, can cause serious injury when skaters try to jump. Raf was more diplomatic than TAT, but they're both experienced coaches, and when experienced coaches agree, I expect that what they have to say is valid.

Here is what Evgenia has said about weight: "People say, "Eat what you want, there's nothing on you!" The thing is, we're slim because we watch our diets. In our sport every 200-300g matter, because we jump."

To reassure all those who are convinced that Eteri wasn't letting Zhenya eat, I will also add some videos of Evgenia happily munching away while she was still with Eteri.
Sima's reactions in the first video were amazing. :laugh2:

https://youtu.be/BY96_icyoM4?t=718
https://youtu.be/bzGhduVL9IQ?t=157
I still don’t understand what evidence TAT and Raf for small weight gain causing injury. They may believe this but they are biased. There are reasons they don’t want skaters to gain weight and may consciously or unconsciously use this justify to encouraging skaters not to gain any weight whatsoever. We know TAT has weird issues with weight and is not rational given many of her weight related comments.

Again, how do we know the difference between cause and effect? It may be that skaters who already have stress fractures are also more likely to gain weight (maybe part of body’s healing process). So far I’m not convinced that changes of .5 kg are suddenly causing stress fractures in previously healthy individuals.
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
I love that this post of factual evidence went completely "ignored". :laugh:

Quite telling.
Considering it's already been discussed back in 2017 in various different threads.

Though I'm from a non skating country, if the coaches coaching our athletes even dare to make statements like Eteri's 2014 interview, there would have calls for the coach to be investigated. And later asked to step down if its local coach, asked to pack up go home if foreign coach.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
I think though we are all missing the point making it look like it's all due to strict diets. That for sure is an issue, but it's not just for Eteri (this doesn't mean they aren't to blame for it).

First of all I'm personally worried about their approach with the quads, but not because their skaters are too young, but more because of their aggressive/perfectionist mentality of expecting hundreds of clean attempts: that worked perfectly with triples, but with quads and 3A you should expect more falls because the elements are bigger and riskier.

I think that has been the reason why Eteri has never been able to achieve the same success with the boys: you look at all their current and previous students (Egor Rukhin, Ilia Skirda, Alexey Erokhov, Adian Pitkeev and few others) and as long as they are working on triples, they are all very consistent almost as much as their girls, very promising talentss, they all nail their 3-3, but then when they start to add quads and 3A in their programs, suddenly they are all a mess.

At that point with the mens, coaches usually start to work with the body, making the skater more muscled, but Eteri wants that thin figure on the ice especially with the ladies, they work on the flexibility a lot especially with the spins, so i'm not sure how many quads falls those fragile bodies can resist. It seems they are making Trusova a more muscled skater (it's noticeable if you compare this season vs last season), so the one that makes me more nervous for the future is Shcherbakova.

I'm also curious to see what will happen with Daniil Samsonov, because he's still in that "only triples" honeymoon so now he looks amazing, but what will happen once he starts to put 3As and quads in his program? Will they try with the massive prerotation like Brian Orser is doing with Gogolev or Eteri with the girls? or will they slowly add the elements as he grows up? Based on the attempts seen so far, it looks the same approach done with the girls.

The other big problem which i believe is the real reason why Eteri's girls don't last very long is because they learn their technique once before puberty and that's it, they never rework it because there is no time or maybe Eteri-Sergei don't want to deal with that, they have other skaters to care,... So as time goes by, a junior 2a with a senior body will inevitably look tiny and forced.

You look at Elizaveta Tuktamysheva and if you compare her lutz technique 2010-11 vs now that changed quite a bit, they clearly worked on the height on some of these triples and the use of the legs as opposed to jumping with the arms, and they had to because her body completely changed. That's how she has been able to save her jumps.

I was more optimistic in the past because for years Eteri-Sergei's approach looked very much Trial and Error, but right now because of their status, they have always guaranteed the best crop of talents every year so i'm not sure if they will try with a safer approach with the quads because they don't necessarily have to: Trusova-Shcherbakova-Kostornaya's goal is to make seniors and win as much as they can in those 1-2 seasons, after that Eteri will already have new girls to take their place.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
I was the one I think who originally used the term “whataboutism”, and I stand by it,

What about other coaches?
Don’t care. Bubkes to do with what Eteri does. My momma told me, two wrongs don’t make a right.

You’re just jealous.
I couldn’t identify an Eteri skater other than Alina and Sasha if you held a gun to my head:laugh: I don’t watch junior ladies. I don’t care if they land 85 quads. :bed:
What am I jealous of?

I follow individual skaters. Not countries. Not coaches. And criticizing a coach does not make me anything than a poster who thinks a coach got something wrong.
That is all. :think:

That's not a virtue. That's a deficiency. And definitely it's not an argument for (or against) anything.
 

eaglehelang

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
I wouldn't put Raf as an example of how coaches should talk about weight. He was the cause of Adam Rippon's eating issues. ("How do I make an elephant jump?")

It's old Russian (Soviet) school: results above health, starve but get thinner.

It's classic, but that doesn't make it right. Sports training and understanding of nutrition have evolved beyond that. (Raf tried to evolve, too.)
On Rafael, I think it's more he's forced to evolve because of different laws in US.

That is why Rafael is careful not to call his skaters 'fat' or rather advised not to do so from seminars. There was a newer Russian intv in Oct/Nov 2018, which Rafael's reply was translated as 'The student/skater can sue you'.


Therefore, there should be laws, safeguards to protect the athletes health. Though the way it looks, figure skating goes the gymnastics route -> if someone dies, gets paralysed, seriously injured then only they will do something.
 
Top