Ted Barton interviews Eteri Tutberidze

Tolstoj said:

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I think that has been the reason why Eteri has never been able to achieve the same success with the boys.

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Eteri herself said that the root of the problem with the boys is that there are too few of them compared with girls. There are not many talents to pick from. The lack of cutthroat competition results in attitudes. She applied the same approach to boys and it did not work out. At the same time, it is hard to deny Moris' progress with quads. And this guy is what 6 foot tall? Not an easy case for quads. But he lands them. And the reason, I guess, is exactly his motivation for whatever reasons. My "conspiracy theory" is that he had no chances for Russian team. Now skating for Georgia he beats the Russians every now and then. That was one part of his motivation.

Tolstoj said:

Eteri's girls don't last very long

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I am strictly against such a generalization based on supported stereotypes.
Who lasts long in Japan outside Satoko? Who lasts long elsewhere (don't give me Kostner)? Puberty exists, no one denies it. Some even claim that it affects the Asians less than the Europeans. The question is whether "survival rate" of Eteri's students is worse than the average. And it is too early to tell.

Eteri made her a name only in 2014. And accusations that she is only good with kids started immediately after Yulia left her in 2015. Yulia's case is obvious - she could not cope with puberty aggravated by eating disorder.

How would Zhenya fare if she stayed? No one knows, hence, I would not say that she did not last long - she is still around. May be she would be much better than with Orser. She is not Eteri's girl anymore? Well, Tursynbaeva is. And she is targeting Beijing. Will not she last that long, you think?

Now Alina and 3A. Alina is struggling with injuries. But she is still relevant. And if she wins the worlds and then retire would people cite her as an example of "Eteri's girls not lasting long" or would they admire her as a skater who won all existing competitons and started a new life at the age of 17? As for 3A, is there eveidence that they won't last long or we are just guessing?

[email protected] said:

Eteri herself said that the root of the problem with the boys is that there are too few of them compared with girls. There are not many talents to pick from. The lack of cutthroat competition results in attitudes. She applied the same approach to boys and it did not work out. At the same time, it is hard to deny Moris' progress with quads. And this guy is what 6 foot tall? Not an easy case for quads. But he lands them. And the reason, I guess, is exactly his motivation for whatever reasons. My "conspiracy theory" is that he had no chances for Russian team. Now skating for Georgia he beats the Russians every now and then. That was one part of his motivation.

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Why does Eteri select such tall guys? Moris is very tall, Erokhov the same, Ruhkin and Skirda grew tall and have long limbs... maybe only Daniil Smasonov will be more fit for quads, given his coordinates.

Huh? Mao Asada retired at the ripe 'young' age of 26 in 2016. Akiko Suzuki was 29 when she retired in 2014.
Satoko is expected to continue till 2022, where she will be 24.
Ashley Wagner is 27, if count her last competition at 2018 US nationals, she was 26.
Katelyn Osmond, the 2018 OG bronze & World Champion, is 23. She has taken the year off, lets see if she comes back next season

[email protected] said:

Eteri herself said that the root of the problem with the boys is that there are too few of them compared with girls. There are not many talents to pick from. The lack of cutthroat competition results in attitudes. She applied the same approach to boys and it did not work out. At the same time, it is hard to deny Moris' progress with quads. And this guy is what 6 foot tall? Not an easy case for quads.But he lands them. And the reason, I guess, is exactly his motivation for whatever reasons. My "conspiracy theory" is that he had no chances for Russian team. Now skating for Georgia he beats the Russians every now and then. That was one part of his motivation.

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I think that's the problem, their training methods maybe don't fit well with a skater who has to practice quads on a daily basis, inevitably you have to deal with more falls, days of no jumping,... you can't force it, and skating while injured is only going to make the athlete worse. This would be a non-issue if she only works with the ladies but she is not and now their girls also are jumping quads with a far thinner body.

About Moris i'd argue he's not that consistent with quads, and they used some trick like the full blade assist, and a nearly identical entrance for 4S and 4T which makes all his quads look the same. Plus we don't really know if the team pushes Moris as hard as the girls, it doesn't seem like it, so maybe they are giving him more time to rest.

[email protected] said:

I am strictly against such a generalization based on supported stereotypes.
Who lasts long in Japan outside Satoko? Who lasts long elsewhere (don't give me Kostner)? Puberty exists, no one denies it. Some even claim that it affects the Asians less than the Europeans. The question is whether "survival rate" of Eteri's students is worse than the average. And it is too early to tell.

Eteri made her a name only in 2014. And accusations that she is only good with kids started immediately after Yulia left her in 2015. Yulia's case is obvious - she could not cope with puberty aggravated by eating disorder.

How would Zhenya fare if she stayed? No one knows, hence, I would not say that she did not last long - she is still around. May be she would be much better than with Orser. She is not Eteri's girl anymore? Well, Tursynbaeva is. And she is targeting Beijing. Will not she last that long, you think?

Now Alina and 3A. Alina is struggling with injuries. But she is still relevant. And if she wins the worlds and then retire would people cite her as an example of "Eteri's girls not lasting long" or would they admire her as a skater who won all existing competitons and started a new life at the age of 17? As for 3A, is there eveidence that they won't last long or we are just guessing?

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Yes it could be easier for Asian skaters, especially the japanese girls cause they are usually not very tall (there are obviously exceptions) so the body isn't going to change that much (the opposite is true for the Russians who get taller), but there is also a different approach with the technique.

There are several skaters who lasted long in Japan, look at Mao Asada, Akiko Suzuki, Kanako Murakami, current skaters only Satoko Miyahara but the old generation retired and Japan had that 1-2 seasons after Sochi with Miyahara and Hongo as the only top skaters.

In Russia Mishin skaters usually last longer: this is the 8th season in seniors for Elizaveta, and i could bet Sofia Samodurova and Anastasia Gulyakova maybe won't be as successful as Eteri skaters but they will last longer if they don't change coaches. Stanislava Konstantinova also could last long if they address all her issues with the jumps and it seems they are doing it (looking at the improvements on the 2a, but there is still some work to do with some of her triples).

Look, I'm not trying to deny the existence of puberty or claiming that her girls are worse than others at that because of Eteri, they are all going through that, but if you rework your technique with the new body, the jumps can be saved. The problem with Eteri is that they refuse to do that, it was evident with Julia Lipntskaya, it was with Evgenia Medvedeva and it is now with Alina Zagitova: some of her jumps needs to be reworked now, her 2A is getting smaller.

it's not just Eteri skaters, Radionova also desperately needed to rework the technique, adjusting everything for the new body and that process never happened at CSKA. (or it did only with the 3F, when at some point she was training 3F-3T)

Tursynbaeva could be an exception since she didn't grow that much compared to other russian skaters from the same generation, so she could keep this body, meaning there is no need to change the technique.

[email protected] said:

Who lasts long elsewhere (don't give me Kostner)?

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Mae-Berenice Meite is in the eighth year of her senior career; I'd call that a fairly long career.

eaglehelang said:

Huh? Mao Asada retired at the ripe 'young' age of 26 in 2016. Akiko Suzuki was 29 when she retired in 2014.
Satoko is expected to continue till 2022, where she will be 24.
Ashley Wagner is 27, if count her last competition at 2018 US nationals, she was 26.
Katelyn Osmond, the 2018 OG bronze & World Champion, is 23. She has taken the year off, lets see if she comes back next season

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I don't buy arguments about previous generations of skaters. For several years it was basically Yuna vs. Mao with Caro "playing spoiler". How long would Mao's career last now when super consistent Mai Mihara who regularly scores above 200 does not get a place in the worlds' team? And I don't buy arguments with skaters from the countries other than Russia and Japan because the depth of talent in those two countries is incomparable with the rest. Osmond? I wonder if the bronze medalist in Canadian Nationals will score more than the last place in Russian Nats this season. 167.78 it was for lowballed Panenkova.

Harriet said:

Mae-Berenice Meite is in the eighth year of her senior career; I'd call that a fairly long career.

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See above

[email protected] said:

I don't buy arguments about previous generations of skaters. For several years it was basically Yuna vs. Mao with Caro "playing spoiler". How long would Mao's career last now when super consistent Mai Mihara who regularly scores above 200 does not get a place in the worlds' team? And I don't buy arguments with skaters from the countries other than Russia and Japan because the depth of talent in those two countries is incomparable with the rest. Osmond? I wonder if the bronze medalist in Canadian Nationals will score more than the last place in Russian Nats this season. 167.78 it was for lowballed Panenkova.



See above

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In the 1st place, Tolstoj's post which you replied to was refering to longevity of the skater's careers. Which later in his reply to you ALSO mentioned Mao, Akiko Suzuki. He/she even added the relatively lesser known Kanako Murakami(who retired at 23).

In the 2nd place, your sentences only stated "Who lasts long in Japan outside Satoko?Who lasts long elsewhere(dont give me Kostner)" Tolstoj and me only gave you the names of the Japanese ladies who retired 2014 to 2017, same time Yulia Lipnitskaya retired & Adelina Sotnikova went inactive mode.

You didnt specify properly, you dont get to complain abt our answers. You also cannot say we misinterpreted your question cos a 3rd person also replied the same way.

eaglehelang said:

Considering it's already been discussed back in 2017 in various different threads.

Though I'm from a non skating country, if the coaches coaching our athletes even dare to make statements like Eteri's 2014 interview, there would have calls for the coach to be investigated. And later asked to step down if its local coach, asked to pack up go home if foreign coach.

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I’ve followed Yulia as close as probably anyone and I (like Yulia) have never put the blame on Eteri. Actually haven’t wasted much time second guessing anyone on the matter largely because I just wasn’t there to know the facts. Yulia seemed to take ownership of the problem and I think it helped her with the overcoming it. She’s never spoken about putting blame on anyone but my speculation would lead to it being a combination of several factors. We just don’t know what Eteri saw, what she knew, what her specific influence was on the matter or if it was more of a an issue when she moved to Sochi and lived on her own and had to start making her own food for herself daily at 17.

As to her specific comments on powder food to make weight for events...certainly alarming but I think you’ve sort of jumped off here into a world of speculation rather than fact. Yulia has told us much and if you’ve followed her you’ll know she’s always been frank and honest. She’s never blamed anyone contributing factor. Coach, mom, self, etc... I’m involved with the figure skating community and I know how coaches push students and I understand how students may hide things from coaches too. I’d be a little cautious on putting much stock into speculating on something you weren’t involved with.

This thread is really disappointing!!

Mathman said:

"Weight is death." -- Frank Carroll, 1994.

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Hes not Russian so could he have really said that?

I am glad for the mysterious Eteris great success. I hope it continues for years. It will.

Scott512 said:

Hes not Russian so could he have really said that?

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He said that twenty five (25) years ago. The world has evolved since then. Unlike some people.

dobrevaria said:

When you have a good technique, which do not rely on petite body structure and rotation speed, then, I think gaining 0.50 is not really something to worry about since, you know, your technique is not going to fail you. Just saying.

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There's obviously a difference between men and women's physiques in relation to jumping. Though I agree a skater like Kaetlyn Osmond has a great jumping technique and looks a healthy weight.

This quote from a recent Alena Kostornaia interview in December:

Q: They say, someone will gain a pound of excess weight and he has no axel anymore.

– It depends. Our boys can gain two kilograms and don’t care. Ate – jumped, ate – jumped. For us, girls, everything is different. For us, 300 extra grams is like three bags hung on you. In the air, it is felt very much.

https://fs-gossips.com/alena-kostornaia-i-dream-to-be-a-neurosurgeon/

Sam-Skwantch said:

As to her specific comments on powder food to make weight for events...certainly alarming but I think you’ve sort of jumped off here into a world of speculation rather than fact. Yulia has told us much and if you’ve followed her you’ll know she’s always been frank and honest. She’s never blamed anyone contributing factor. Coach, mom, self, etc... I’m involved with the figure skating community and I know how coaches push students and I understand how students may hide things from coaches too. I’d be a little cautious on putting much stock into speculating on something you weren’t involved with.

This thread is really disappointing!!

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Take note I was refering to Eteri's 2014 comments. Eteri, not Yulia. The praising Yulia for Yulia's ability not to eat, etc.

In my country, in this day & age, a coach making such comments publically, would have been hauled up by the Sports Ministry & questioned & reprimanded. If lucky demoted, if not lucky, bye bye. Seriously.
In other words, the coach blabbing away is her own self incriminating evidence.

Or are you implying Eteri did not utter those words & use the misquoted defense?

Action has been taken for lesser infractions than that. Winter sports need to catch up with Summer sports.

NoviceFan said:

True - the other coaches that posters here have referenced have had successful students over the age of 18. Eteri?

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Morisi Kvitelashvili is 23, and won the silver medal at Rostelecom Cup this season, but ofcourse he's male.

dobrevaria said:

You see, I absolutely hate double standards, so I'm definitely not making one right now. I know others coaches do it as well, that's a given and I don't like their actions at all. More than disliking their actions, I would like to see more discussions about those issues in the sport to keep athletes healthy.
But look at the title of the thread : "Ted Barton interview Eteri Tutberidze". That's Eteri Tutberdize we are talking about right now. Not others coaches or something but Eteri Tutberidze, so of course, the discussion is around her. It doesn't mean that the similar actions of others coaches are okay, it's not, and it will never be.
So for me, yes, it does sound like an excuse because it's blantant whataboutism.

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Actually, I titled this thread "Ted interviews Eteri, it's emotional", but the Mods seem to have changed it...?!

Just to introduce some further whataboutery, if fans of varying Sports actually knew the sacrifices made by successful competitors, would they be just as enthusiastic?

flanker said:

That's not a virtue. That's a deficiency. And definitely it's not an argument for (or against) anything.

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It is an argument against the claim that anyone interested in this issue is motivated by jealousy.

el henry said:

I couldn’t identify an Eteri skater other than Alina and Sasha if you held a gun to my head I don’t watch junior ladies. I don’t care if they land 85 quads.

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Wow, you're missing alot! Most notably the most beautiful skating of Alena Kostornaia, who doesn't do a single quad, but captivates with sheer all round brilliance.

[email protected] said:

You know what I mean. There might be random critical posts about different coaches. But over the years that I am here there has not being anything like anti-Medvedeva campaign in 2016-17 and anti-Eteri campaign during the last two years.

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I think you are right about coaches, although in the past there has been criticism of coaches like Carlo Fassi who won titles for his students by political wheeling and dealing.

But as for critiques of skaters, this is nothing. At least no one is threatening Evgenia with dismemberment and death, as has happened in the past to other skaters.

La Rhumba said:

Wow, you're missing alot! Most notably the most beautiful skating of Alena Kostornaia, who doesn't do a single quad, but captivates with sheer all round brilliance.

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Seconded!

Mathman said:

I think you are right about coaches, although in the past there has been criticism of coaches like Carlo Fassi who won titles for his students by political wheeling and dealing.

.

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Excuse me! My attention was pricked by this statement, as a British skating fan!
The Fassis coached 2 British Olympians, Curry and Cousins, are you suggesting it was "wheeling and dealing" that got them victories rather than talent? I appreciate that the Judging normally lined up East / West in those days, but when an uber talented skater came along, didn't the Judges go with them, eg Torvill & Dean in 1981?

Mathman said:

It is an argument against the claim that anyone interested in this issue is motivated by jealousy.

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I was using term 'jealousy' as a psychological concept which is not equal with jealousy people are using in everyday language. It's basically an emotion coming from negatives aspect of a psyche everybody have and need to express in some way. Of course that every criticism is not a product of people's own negatives fellings per se, but on Eteri's topics i'm getting a lot of that vibe from the posters. Also the vibe that if you discuss something you necessarily need to be on pro or contra side of the topic, which is not my intention at all - to be on one side. I'm just trying to give another possible and differnet opinion on those topics.