Ted Barton interviews Eteri Tutberidze

plushyfan said:

OMG! Maybe you didn't understand me. I mentioned the "national jealousy" in sport not in general in civil life. I hate it there! I live in a country where my goverment pours lot of foolish nationalism to the people's head. And it works, unfortunately. The "national jealousy" ( my poor english doesn't allow to explain it more or to use other term) is exist and totally natural. Most of the people support their countrymen ( and of course, there are favorites from other countries, too) and if they see they have no new stars, their skaters have no chance will be jealous...and start to criticise the succesfuls. (You don't start to refute this because there are exceptions always)

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I was talking specifically about the alleged "national jealousy" in sports, in particular figure skating.

Only those conditioned to view everything through the prism of nationalistic sports pride, would accuse others of national jealousy.

No, it's not natural to "feel jealous if there're no national stars" and "to start criticizing successful ones" because of it. That would be insane - in a normal non-propaganda environment.

I really don’t see how teens doing stupid things absolves coaches. Teens have been doing stupid things since the beginning of time

Teens may very well compare their weights. Posters here may have compared their own weights. So?:confused2:

ETA: other than as a example of things that shouldn’t have happened

Coaches have a responsibility to instill healthy habits in their teen students, particularly younger (16 and under) teens. If they see younger teens comparing weights, they should stop them. And make serious consequence for those who violate that rule.

I return to my momma, two wrongs don’t make a right

moriel said:

They will compare themselves.

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Still ... Ha ha, I'm skinnier than you? I weigh 40 kilos and you weigh 41?

Mathman said:

Still ... Ha ha, I'm skinnier than you? I weigh 40 kilos and you weigh 41?

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Yep, on that level. "I scored 91% and you scored 90% i'm smarter than you lololol".

el henry said:

I really don’t see how teens doing stupid things absolves coaches. Teens have been doing stupid things since the beginning of time

Teens may very well compare their weights. Posters here may have compared their own weights. So?:confused2:

ETA: other than as a example of things that shouldn’t have happened

Coaches have a responsibility to instill healthy habits in their teen students, particularly younger (16 and under) teens. If they see younger teens comparing weights, they should stop them. And make serious consequence for those who violate that rule.

I return to my momma, two wrongs don’t make a right

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People above brought examples of teens comparing themselves as a reason to bash Eteri once more.
As for stopping, have you actually tried?

Casual said:

I was talking specifically about the alleged "national jealousy" in sports, in particular figure skating.

Only those conditioned to view everything through the prism of nationalistic sports pride, would accuse others of national jealousy.

No, it's not natural to "feel jealous if there're no national stars" and "to start criticizing successful ones" because of it. That would be insane - in a normal non-propaganda environment.

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Casual, you are a saint!

"Supporting their countrymen" is not the same as feeling unhealthy jealousy towards the others, and wishing to tear down others (unfairly!) just to stoke nationalistic pride.

People support those they like. They like those they know well. When they get acquainted with others, they start liking them as well.

Liking and disliking grows from familiarity, and it's based on personal preference and objective factors, but not on "jealousy" - at least in those countries where the state does not use sports in a propaganda machine.

moriel said:

Yep, on that level. "I scored 91% and you scored 90% i'm smarter than you lololol".




People above brought examples of teens comparing themselves as a reason to bash Eteri once more.
As for stopping, have you actually tried?

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Have I actually tried what?
I don’t understand this sentence

plushyfan said:

Casual, you are a saint!

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Not really, I understand how people can become rabid fans (of a football team, or a fictional TV character, etc., etc.), and how rabid fannishness can cloud judgement.

I'm just pointing out that figure skating is not as popular in other countries, and their governments do not spend money to promote "big sport" as a proxy for nationalistic pride - and this is why people get very confused when they are accused of something they do not feel, such as "nationalistic jealousy".

moriel said:

Yep, on that level. "I scored 91% and you scored 90% i'm smarter than you lololol".




People above brought examples of teens comparing themselves as a reason to bash Eteri once more.
As for stopping, have you actually tried?

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If you are talking about my posts (which I guess you at least partly do, since you quoted me above), I wrote a very long and what I thought to be detailed comment and students comparing themselves was only a very small part. And another part was me stating clearly that this is not to bash Eteri. You always just pick the things you want from what people tell you, twist it around a bit and use it as an argument for hate.

People questioning Eteri is not hate. People saying they want a professional instead of her taking care of a student‘s health and weight is not hate. It‘s pointing out things that are obvious and concerning. I don‘t see how people can‘t be worried when reading some of the comments made by Eteri and especially her students and like I said, I wish this issue would be addressed more for everybody in the skating community, not just Eteri. Because saying “you just bash xy, others do it too“ is not a sensible argument. It‘s not an argument at all, in fact.

Going back to Eteri - I hope she changes her public attitudes towards nutrition just as Raf did.

It will be good for her girls, and it will also serve as a good example to the fans.

Casual said:

Not really, I understand how people can become rabid fans (of a football team, or a fictional TV character, etc., etc.), and how rabid fannishness can cloud judgement.

I'm just pointing out that figure skating is not as popular in other countries, and their governments do not spend money to promote "big sport" as a proxy for nationalistic pride - and this is why people get very confused when they are accused of something they do not feel, such as "nationalistic jealousy".

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I am part of one of the most reviled, rabid fanbases in the US of A.
#FlyEaglesFly
But Philadelphia is a great city whether the Birds are their traditional losing selves or whether they win the Super Bowl. It’s just not tied in.

Russia, Canada, US, Japan, France etc etc (sorry if I left someone out I can’t list every country in the world ) are great countries regardless of how their figure skaters perform, and figure skaters performing well doesn’t make them greater.

I root for skaters. Go Jason his teammates and anyone associated with him and Deniss and Donovan and Koshiro and many others.

I want them all to have long healthy skating lives. In fact, I want that for every skater.

Casual said:

Not really, I understand how people can become rabid fans (of a football team, or a fictional TV character, etc., etc.), and how rabid fannishness can cloud judgement.

I'm just pointing out that figure skating is not as popular in other countries, and their governments do not spend money to promote "big sport" as a proxy for nationalistic pride - and this is why people get very confused when they are accused of something they do not feel, such as "nationalistic jealousy".

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Honestly, I can‘t even remember a time when my country had any successful skater in any of the events. Having no national stars actually makes it easier somewhat to be objective and you can root for everyone without feeling guilty for not supporting your national skaters more than anybody else.

And I‘m not jealous of anybody (why would I lol) I root for many skaters from different countries. And if I like someone, I do that because I like the person, the athlete, regardless of where they come from or where they train. That‘s why it was no big deal when Zhenya left to train in Canada. Why should I care? If they‘re happy, I‘m fine.

So, yeah, I don‘t really get this whole “jealousy“ thing. People in my country barely are aware of the fact figure skating exists as a serious sport. It’s more like “oh, the one with the pretty girls in the sparkly dresses doing some spins“. Only during the Olympics it gets some minor importance but even then it‘s not that much because skiing and other sports where we have athletes actively competing get more focus.

That’s why I personally always ask myself who I should be jealous of. The Russians because they steal valuable spots or medals from my country? Yeah, sure, they do, because we‘ve got sooo many skaters who could compete at the top level in figure skating... not) No offense to Austrian skaters but I would be pretty annoyed if I had to see more of them instead of the Russians who are just clearly better. So much for national pride and jealousy.

Athletes with eating disorders are certainly not limited to Russian ladies. Canadian, American and Japanese ladies have all talked about having ED. What no one ever seems to talk about is the young men with ED but that is a subject for another day.

The body can adjust to living on less calories than is recommended and there is some research to show that longevity and being on the low end of normal for weight may be linked together. The longest living people in the world live in Japan and swim in the ocean every day (Forgive me I do not remember the name of the area). Their diet is mainly plant and fish based. I would rather hear that athletes who are reducing calories are doing it though switching to a fish and vegetable based diet with high quality fats (essential for young growing brains) rather than protein powdered drinks (which are not healthy and can have long term negative effects on young people's bodies). I feel, honestly, that if Eteri is promoting this kind of behaviour (and by promoting I mean telling them to do it or providing it for them) then she is in error. I would say exactly the same thing about a coach from any country.


Adults can starve themselves with very little long term damage as long as the process does not go on for protracted periods of time. I spent 6 weeks living on less than 500-800 calories a day when I was working on a issue I had with my digestive system. You are tired, you are irritable and often time you are not at your mental and physical best but it can be done. However for a person who is still growing and whose brain is still developing this is a very dangerous practice and can have long term effects. The body does not care after a certain point and will do anything to survive including consuming your brain.

Also, as anyone who has dieted for prolonged periods of time knows. starving yourself (anything under 1200) just resets your metabolism and causes it to be even harder to lose weight. It is a vicious circle. Everyone wants immediate results but the only effective way to lose weight is through maintaining a healthy diet and being active. 1 to 2 pounds a week is recommended but no one is satisfied with that so they crash it off and then gain it back because they have not given it long enough time to become a lifestyle change rather than some kind of torment you have to put yourself though so you can lose 15 pounds. It only takes eating 1000 calories extra a week (which is very little in the grand scheme of things) and no increase in activity and you will have gained 14 pounds in a year.

Fluture said:

Honestly, I can‘t even remember a time when my country had any successful skater in any of the events. Having no national stars actually makes it easier somewhat to be objective and you can root for everyone without feeling guilty for not supporting your national skaters more than anybody else.

And I‘m not jealous of anybody (why would I lol) I root for many skaters from different countries. And if I like someone, I do that because I like the person, the athlete, regardless of where they come from or where they train. That‘s why it was no big deal when Zhenya left to train in Canada. Why should I care? If they‘re happy, I‘m fine.

So, yeah, I don‘t really get this whole “jealousy“ thing. People in my country barely are aware of the fact figure skating exists as a serious sport. It’s more like “oh, the one with the pretty girls in the sparkly dresses doing some spins“. Only during the Olympics it gets some minor importance but even then it‘s not that much because skiing and other sports where we have athletes actively competing get more focus.

That’s why I personally always ask myself who I should be jealous of. The Russians because they steal valuable spots or medals from my country? Yeah, sure, they do, because we‘ve got sooo many skaters who could compete at the top level in figure skating... not) No offense to Austrian skaters but I would be pretty annoyed if I had to see more of them instead of the Russians who are just clearly better. So much for national pride and jealousy.

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Austria has a very talented pairs team who I enjoy very much.

Fluture said:

Honestly, I can‘t even remember a time when my country had any successful skater in any of the events. ...

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You're too young! Austrian men won the world figure skating championship every year from 1923 t0 1938, except for two when that rascally Swede Gillis Grafstrom snuck in there.

Fluture said:

Honestly, I can‘t even remember a time when my country had any successful skater in any of the events. Having no national stars actually makes it easier somewhat to be objective and you can root for everyone without feeling guilty for not supporting your national skaters more than anybody else.

And I‘m not jealous of anybody (why would I lol) I root for many skaters from different countries. And if I like someone, I do that because I like the person, the athlete, regardless of where they come from or where they train. That‘s why it was no big deal when Zhenya left to train in Canada. Why should I care? If they‘re happy, I‘m fine.

So, yeah, I don‘t really get this whole “jealousy“ thing. People in my country barely are aware of the fact figure skating exists as a serious sport. It’s more like “oh, the one with the pretty girls in the sparkly dresses doing some spins“. Only during the Olympics it gets some minor importance but even then it‘s not that much because skiing and other sports where we have athletes actively competing get more focus.

That’s why I personally always ask myself who I should be jealous of. The Russians because they steal valuable spots or medals from my country? Yeah, sure, they do, because we‘ve got sooo many skaters who could compete at the top level in figure skating... not) No offense to Austrian skaters but I would be pretty annoyed if I had to see more of them instead of the Russians who are just clearly better. So much for national pride and jealousy.

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You are from Austria. Not from Canada, US... I'm Hungarian I'm in same situation as you.

Fluture said:

Yes, that's probably a factor that isn't entirely Eteri's fault. I doubt she can or should control what students talk or say to each other and I doubt she tries to either.

My main argument was mainly that I'd like for Team Eteri to hire a professional nutritionist so that they can just answer all these questions about weight with: "We have someone who knows their stuff and cares about that and works with the students individually to make sure they are healthy. We take this matter very seriously and address it carefully." It would stop all these discussions and actually, I think it would help Eteri and her girls, too. It would take some responsibility away from them. While the girls would still obviously have to make sure to follow what they've decided on to be the diet with the nutritionist, the coaches and parents, too would have a plan for each individual and could act according to that. And if something regarding their body changes, they'd pick it up early enough and make the necessary adjustments.

It just troubles me that these are young girls who are often experiencing pressure with weight anyway (boys do, too, of course, but I don't know as much about the ones Eteri teaches, so that's why my focus is on her female students only. That being said, I know very well that eating disorders and troubles with weight are in no way solely a girls' problem and obviously affect boys, too!) and aren't in the hand of people who know what they're doing to work out with them individually what's best for them. They're rather being left off to deal with this on their own or only with the coaches' and parents' help, who, despite being informed as best as they can, have not studied this and probably also don't have the time or knowledge to work out an individual system for each of them. And especially for a facility as big as Sambo and a coach with so many world class skaters as Eteri.. I judt don't think this is right in any way. I wish this issue would be more addressed. That athletes all over the world could get to work with professionals to make sure they are healthy and don't destroy their body and minds by having the wrong diet...

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Eteri can absolutely make rules about what they discuss. We don't discuss weight in the locker room. You don't share your weight with other girls. The fact that the girls in the documentary made an effort to hide the numbers shows that its pretty easy for them to see each others weights and that was normal behavior for them. I assume Eteri had influence about what was filmed and that some sort of adult from their team was present with the filming crew. They allowed a camera to film teenage girls getting on a scale and discussing each others weight. The fact that this was allowed and not seen as problematic speaks to the culture at sambo-70. Weight should be in private and not discussed with others.

The other thing about that documentary was that Zhenya made a comment like, "Not bad....and I'm fully clothed." To me that implies that unclothed weigh ins were typical. Which makes me concerned that they are weighing these teenage girls unclothed or in minimal clothes.

plushyfan said:

You are from Austria. Not from Canada, US... I'm Hungarian I'm in same situation as you.

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What about Ivette?

Sugar Coated said:

Eteri can absolutely make rules about what they discuss. We don't discuss weight in the locker room. You don't share your weight with other girls. The fact that the girls in the documentary made an effort to hide the numbers shows that its pretty easy for them to see each others weights and that was normal behavior for them. I assume Eteri had influence about what was filmed and that some sort of adult from their team was present with the filming crew. They allowed a camera to film teenage girls getting on a scale and discussing each others weight. The fact that this was allowed and not seen as problematic speaks to the culture at sambo-70. Weight should be in private and not discussed with others.

The other thing about that documentary was that Zhenya made a comment like, "Not bad....and I'm fully clothed." To me that implies that unclothed weigh ins were typical. Which makes me concerned that they are weighing these teenage girls unclothed or in minimal clothes.

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Or she weighs herself at home in the nude which is what almost everyone I went to HS did. I knew a girl who subtracted 3 pounds from her weight for all her body hair (she had shortish hair so it always begged the question) and so, as she would proudly tell people, weighed 110 lb.

When we condition girls to associate weight with beauty (rather than health) we create competitiveness within them (as some girls will do almost anything to be the prettiest) and within those groups dieting is very strongly discussed. I remember siting at many lunch tables with girls who weren't eating who would proudly tell you how little they ate yesterday or planned to eat today so I can only imagine what a fish bowl like Eteri's rink is like. Girls talk to each other, they egg each other on and throw into that the hyper competitive nature of sport and you are talking about a soup of teenage angst and unhealthy choices.

Sugar Coated said:

The other thing about that documentary was that Zhenya made a comment like, "Not bad....and I'm fully clothed." To me that implies that unclothed weigh ins were typical. Which makes me concerned that they are weighing these teenage girls unclothed or in minimal clothes.

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This is a bit much. I know I weigh myself in boxer shorts all the time. It’s a dressing room ...they see each other changing rather frequently. I think you’re letting your imagination run a bit here.