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pleasepleaseplease do not say this too loud or some of them will hear and start on it the minute the 4A is landed....
Quads. Why or why not?
- Thread starter gonewiththewind25
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pleasepleaseplease do not say this too loud or some of them will hear and start on it the minute the 4A is landed....
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As does anyone who does an artistic perfect 18 triples program have mine
How does one even do 18 triples in a program? Am I missing something?
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I was making up things
I don’t expect anyone to do a quint axel in my lifetime and I don’t expect anyone to do an 18 perfect triples program. But I thought the exaggeration would show that I prize the perfect jump more than the messy attempt at something new for the sake of doing something new.My feeble attempt at humor
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Not exactly triples, but I think this was Shizuka Arakawa's opening jumping pass at the 2006 Olympics?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3lT3dQoU10&t=2m5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3lT3dQoU10&t=2m5s
I was making up things
My feeble attempt at humor
No quint axels until they start messing with human bioengineering. Ha-ha.
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I totally agree. Meryl and Charlie are the perfect examples. It wasn't easy for them to make a decision not to compete any more, which they did in stages. Because they're fierce competitors, just like the others you mentioned.
But in doing so, they were generous, to the talented and awesome stars coming behind them, and to the challengers who got their chance to win world and olympic medals as a result.
And aside from the psychological difficulty, it was hard mental and creative work to find their passions in other directions, to pursue them, to live with ambiguity when all their lives up till that time had been about avoiding ambiguity. Or to put it another way, about single-mindedness and focus.
I loved Yuzuru's comments about wanting to continue because he wants to skate the programs that only he is capable of creating. But he could still do that in other venues, without risking so much injury by pursuing quads. I wish he'd go out on top ... for his sake, and also for everyone else's.
As for the 14-year-olds doing quads, I don't find it interesting. I can watch the programs while my brain notes that such technical prowess is admirable, but if it doesn't engage my emotions and my musical feeling, I'm bored. I can hardly watch a whole long program. Skaters like Alena Kostornaia and Rika Kihira, though ... I'm completely entranced watching them, because there's more to them than their jumps, even as young as they are.
I feel like with such attitudes, the skating world would be like the one depicted in Logan's Run, which if you are familiar with is not something for a community to aspire to in any way. :disapp: A spiritual and artistic desert at best. Glittery and youthful-seeming only from a distance, when you are not paying much attention to anything but the sparkles.
If a singles skater or couple are motivated to compete it should be they and their team who should decide when they retire, not fans who dehumanize the skaters to the point where they treat them like fictional characters who need to leave whenever said fans feel they personally have seen enough of them winning. Those fans may mean well, may think this would somehow add value to the sport and art of figure skating, but in the end that is what they are reducing talented, hard-working human beings to: cardboard characters, subject to consumers' whims.
I am thrilled Yuzuru is continuing to challenge the senior men's field to keep on pushing for higher and better artistic and technical excellence, just as he challenges himself. As long as competing gives him great joy, I will welcome him. Ditto to the other skaters who getting joy out of competing no matter their age or the number of medals they have won (or not won). None of us can predict what future gems they might produce, as others have mentioned above.
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This is all a looong way from the topic of quads, but let us be fair - weren't White and Davis, along with Virtue/Moir, Patrick Chan, Volosozhar/Trankov, Javi, Aljona and many of the champions of Sochi and Pyeongchang (except in the ladies) all older than Yuzu is now when they stopped competing? (feel free to correct my maths if needed)
I have to say, I do not see why any 24-year-old (for goodness sake! what about Takahashi, Messing and the GPF uncles???) should be expected to retire - earlier than many of his actual peers have - simply because he commits the mortal sin of being able to skate brilliantly, thrill audiences and get higher scores than the other men at the minute... and said others are being 'deprived' of olympic or world gold as a result.
And personally I would hate him to have retired before we got those stunning Pyeongchang achievements, or the Otonal of Helsinki or Rostelecom, or (hopefully) the Origin he wants to give us. And I feel reasonably confident that many more fans worldwide are with than against me on this.
When he decides he (and his health) has had enough, fair enough.
They retired because they didn't have a reason and motivation to compete anymore. Yuzuru has both a reason and motivation.
And about giving a chance to win world and olympic medals to others... If a skater is good enough, it shouldn't matter who is their competitior. I just saw on twitter a video with Yuzuru from 2012. He was competing with his seniors who were more accomplished at that time. And he said "I will not lose to my sempais". This is an attidude a champion should have. Not "I can't win when this and that skater competes".
And if Javi, Patrick, Daisuke and other skaters can go to 3 Olympics, why Yuzuru can't compete for a little bit more?
Main reason for Yuzu to not skate on would be his frustrating run with injuries; there may come a day where he can't get up after a fall on a 4A, or whatever he decides to do past that. After all, his 4Lz and 4Lo troubles were mostly due to UR, and a 4A is easy to UR.
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Although Plushy did get a lot of flak for that. After Sochi some nut in Parliament even suggested putting a limit on how many Olympics an athlete could go to!
Even the British Eurosport guys have suggested that Plushy 'stole' Maxim K's spot (took me quite some time to forgive them for that one).
Plus I've heard general comments that Plushy's longevity had a negative impact on the younger Russian men - although really it was the Russian Fed's fault for exerting so much pressure on their younger male skaters and crucifying them for a single mistake.
Speaking of Plushy, despite the back injuries from all the quads he can still skate so it's not all gloom and doom!
That was different. Plu shouldn't have skated his last Olympics. (And actually he didn't skate it properly; he just went and took someone else's spot, as some have argued.)
Any top skater who can still compete and win - not based on their prior record and industry pull, but because they are still truly the best - should stay, if it gives them joy. Because they sure give a lot of joy to fans!
As a fan, I want to see the best compete, and win. I'm selfish that way.
On the other hand, if there are better upcoming young'uns, who are held back because an older skater gets his (underserved) "reputational scoring" bonus while not being truly the best anymore, then it's certainly time to go and give way to the young'uns.
In Yuzuru's case, we have the former. He's still GOAT. His retirement at this point would be a loss to the sport.
As a fan, I want to see the best compete, and win. I'm selfish that way.
On the other hand, if there are better upcoming young'uns, who are held back because an older skater gets his (underserved) "reputational scoring" bonus while not being truly the best anymore, then it's certainly time to go and give way to the young'uns.
In Yuzuru's case, we have the former. He's still GOAT. His retirement at this point would be a loss to the sport.
Little chance was for the Team event gold if not with Plu.
When Lipi went for the LP Tutberidze didn't tell her the gold is already secured. It was Plu who did it.
When Lipi went for the LP Tutberidze didn't tell her the gold is already secured. It was Plu who did it.
I dont understand the outrage on this (off) topic here. These posters did NOT say "I want champions who stay on top for too long to retire! Because I say so! They better do as I wish!"
They only stated their opinion that once a champion has accomplished everything and continues to win, they arent as emotionally invested in them anymore and get a litttle bored. That's all. It's not an order for skaters to retire it is just that one doesnt really care so much anymore while watching them.
Others may feel differently
They only stated their opinion that once a champion has accomplished everything and continues to win, they arent as emotionally invested in them anymore and get a litttle bored. That's all. It's not an order for skaters to retire it is just that one doesnt really care so much anymore while watching them.
Others may feel differently
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To be fair, I think what stung was your labeling of White/Davis's swift post-Oly retirement as pointedly "generous" (speaking of which I did love his own self-deprecating comment on it at Rostelecom, he's a lovely commentator) with the no-doubt-at-all unwitting but rather hefty implication that not to do so is therefore ungenerous/selfish...
But back to quads: me, I think the athletes may very well suffer later (especially the prepubescents of both sexes) but we don't know, and in any case the genie is out of the bottle. It's a sport, they have to be rewarded for going higher, further, harder, and as long as they are rewarded, they'll push it (I wouldn't be surprised if some babies are even now eyeing off the achievements of both sexes and thinking "I'll do even more and better when I'm older...")
So until there is hard evidence (as I said, how the generation of men who are now quadding madly are in a few years) what can you do? People do extreme sports that can KILL them for way less reward than a small chance at an Olympic gold medal (and never mind extreme sports, I still recall the shock when an elite cricketer over here was killed while playing.) After all, Yuzuru isn't the only one wanting to do the 4A, despite the fact that it's insanely risky and no longer worth the points it was.
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Oh, yes as Ashley Wagner ( instead of Mirai) and Daisuke Takahashi ( instead of Kozuka).
Plushenko didn't send himself to Sochi. Kovtun didn't skated well at ECH 2014 and the Russian fed didn't want to risk. The Russian federation wanted to team gold the most. All members of Russian team were very grateful to him in 2014. He was the leader of the team he gave them confidence. Plush skated well under that incredible great pressure he received 19 points from 20. So I really don't know what are you talking about.
Look at what happened in Korea. After Kolyada's skating Lipnitskaya said "this would have happened in Sochi" if Kovtun skates. Plush got injured and the injury was totally unexpected. One of the titan screws has broken next to his spine. The doctor said those screws have 30 years garantee.
@anonymoose_au In the Duma that was Zirinovsky the ultranationalist politician. He probably did it because Yana's ( Plushenko's recent wife if anybody don't know) first husband a Russian billionair gave him money for his political campaigne. And their divorce wasn't a simply case!
