Anna Shcherbakova: 'The fact that we are girls...'

Anna Shcherbakova took many by surprise when she won the title at Russian Nationals (senior level) in her debut at the event. The ladies' competition at this event is incredibly competitive, and big names such as Olympic Champion Alina Zagitova and two-time World Champion Evgenia Medvedeva were competing, but when they faltered, Shcherbakova seized the opportunity. The delicate 14-year-old put out two clean, stunning performances and landed a quad Lutz in the Free Skating to rise from fifth to first place.

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What's your take on girls and quads?

Good luck to her at Russian Junior Nats!

Nice!! Excellent article and as always Anna comes across so thoughtful and honest in her remarks.

My thoughts on girls and quads? Hmm....
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsJSz8vhWy5/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=19xf5kc6jddtd

What seems remarkable to me is that these girls seemed to leap immediately to the quad Lutz as their go-to jump. It took the men 25 years or so to work their way up from a quad toe to a quad Lutz.

Is Shcherbakova the first skter, man or woman, to do two quad Lutzes in a program?

Zomg I love Anna so much. In fact, I was hoping there would be an article for her! What a nice article and a great middle to my day :luv17:

Anna is such a sweet girl, but she's also so strong and brave and wonderful. Her skating is just magnificent, and she's got a heart of gold to match. I hope that this is just the beginning of success for her to come. She certainly deserves it

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Mathman said:

What seems remarkable to me is that these girls seemed to leap immediately to the quad Lutz as their go-to jump. It took the men 25 years or so to work their way up from a quad toe to a quad Lutz.

Is Shcherbakova the first skter, man or woman, to do two quad Lutzes in a program?

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No, Nathan did it, but I think she's the first woman

Mathman said:

What seems remarkable to me is that these girls seemed to leap immediately to the quad Lutz as their go-to jump. It took the men 25 years or so to work their way up from a quad toe to a quad Lutz.

Is Shcherbakova the first skter, man or woman, to do two quad Lutzes in a program?

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She is first lady. Nathan Chen is first man

Featured in the article:

It should be noted that Shcherbakova is the first lady to land two quad Lutzes in a single program (free skate at the second stage of the 2018 National Russian Cup). The first Lutz was in combination with a triple toe (step out). The second was a solo Lutz.

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By the way, that is a cool photo by Robin Ritoss. It doesn't quite show all the way down to the ice, but from what I can see i have a new respect for "deep edges." How did she stay upright?

gsk8 said:

What's your take on girls and quads?

Good luck to her at Russian Junior Nats!

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The use of quads at the Senior National Championships led to an unexpected but spectacular podium.
Apart from the quad jumps, Trusova and Shcherbakova truely earned their podium places by solid and reliable skating throughout the lead up to the Nationals.
One can rest assured there are more "quadsters" being prepared in the younger junior ranks in Russia. Coming jnr nats might be a first reveal for a couple of them, in the 11-12 y.o. age ranks, we'll have to wait and see.

What worries me is the demotivating effect this trend might have on smaller federations and older skaters. It could be whole programs and complete birth years of (older) skaters will be left out of medal chances because one cannot realistically compete against a "quadster" of Trusova and Shcherbakova's caliber, esp. when they are capable of more than one kind of quad. Only in state funded programs like Russia where kids, teens and adolescents are allowed full time intense and quality sports training, the status of "quadster" can safely and reliably be achieved. Very few other programs have these kind of resources.

Figure skating is one of the most coveted Olympic medals in female sports, and having a "quadster" might just give nations like DPRK the incentive to "genetically engineer" their own "pocket rocket" complete with falsified birth certificate in order to snatch away an 'easy' Olympic Gold in 2022.

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I don't like quads for anybody for different reasons. All boiling down to, they end too many men's careers before the person is really a fully developed skaters. They will do so for women as well, and in addition they reward disordered eating once the woman hits puberty.

I really like Anna. I didn't want to become attached to the juniors girls (we never know what will happen in the future...) but it's impossible with a girl like this. She seems exteremely sweet and she is a fantastic athlete. I wish her only the best!

RobinA said:

I don't like quads for anybody for different reasons. All boiling down to, they end too many men's careers before the person is really a fully developed skaters. They will do so for women as well, and in addition they reward disordered eating once the woman hits puberty.

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We'll know when the first female quad jumps have had their premiere in a World Championships. Who will be the first, what will the score be and its effect on the results, and how will ISU respond in its first congress afterwards in the lead up to 2022 Winter Olympics. Speedskating rules have been changed to end the dominance of The Netherlands in this event, if Russia gets too dominant in figure skating, the other federations demand a re-evaluation of the code.

Open ended scoring has had a detrimental effect on the artistic quality in women's artistic gymnastics, save for the unique almost superhuman Simone Biles, who made the best out of it and proved unbeatable since like 2012.
FIG still seems clueless in which direction to take WAG, as many sanctioned events turned into a splat fest. MAG is OK with open ended scoring, team and all around are intense and exciting competitions down to the wire, down to the landing of the very last athlete often.

I don't know about eating disorders in relation to quads, figure skaters need to be strong physically. In Russian Nationals I could see no sign of any eating disorder in any contestant. Tarakanova, Tarusina, Konstantinova, Leonova, Zagitova etc. all looked very fit and athletic and perfectly at ease with themselves, they were in command.

Only when you have this large talent pool like in Russia you can pick the young skaters with the right physique, the right mentality, those special fast action "short" muscle fibers, and train them hard to get to the level of "quadster".

I have read here that the parents of many skaters are also small of stature, so when the girls' growth plates close by 15-16 years of age, they won't grow any taller than their parents, see Kostornaya. Although I haven't yet searched for recent photos of her parents side by side with their daughter, Alyona Kostornaya seems to me the perfect build for a power skater.
As in gymnastics, I think that solidly build boys and girls "trimmed down" to gymnast or skater size and weight by regular controlled exercise and careful nutrition have the best outlook at a long and healthy career. Twig girls like Shcherbakova perhaps not, she resembles a ballet dancer, but ballet dancers are as tough as or even tougher than athletes. Looks can be deceiving, strong bones, ligaments and joints can still be inside her slender frame, she can still get very far before inevitable wear and tear catch up with her.

! Power Skaters are Go !

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Edwin said:

What worries me is the demotivating effect this trend might have on smaller federations and older skaters. It could be whole programs and complete birth years of (older) skaters will be left out of medal chances because one cannot realistically compete against a "quadster" of Trusova and Shcherbakova's caliber, esp. when they are capable of more than one kind of quad. Only in state funded programs like Russia where kids, teens and adolescents are allowed full time intense and quality sports training, the status of "quadster" can safely and reliably be achieved. Very few other programs have these kind of resources.

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This could be applied on any sport in some way. Like, wasn't Usain Bolt demotivating other sprinters? And there could be thousands of examples. Yet, you can either accept that any sport branch is developing, or try to conserve it in current form. (which by the way fits the negative sides of sport much more, because e. g. if current state of a sport branch fits to someone and others do would lack the chance to change it by some other attitudes, it would not seem fair to me. Sport is about pushing the limits always, not about doing what was done thousand times before (and in art it is also similar, which does not of course mean that new art is automatically better than the old one, just different). And I even don't think that this is new situation in principle in figure skating, always when new elements/additional rotations came, the discussion came - isn't it changing the nature of sport? Is it safe? Is it even possible? Esp. in women FS - first triples, first triples in combos, first 3-3 combos and now quads. It's just natural development and yes, I admit, maybe natural selection also. But to be honest, there are several favorite countris even now in figure skating, quads don't bring anything new to it.
But many things seemed impossible till someone came who wasn't told it is impossible and just did it. And it is obviously inspiration for others for now there are ladies in Japan, USA and maybe other countries who seriously train quads. You can either accept it or just say we will ban that, but than you must say why.

Mathman said:

What seems remarkable to me is that these girls seemed to leap immediately to the quad Lutz as their go-to jump. It took the men 25 years or so to work their way up from a quad toe to a quad Lutz.

Is Shcherbakova the first skter, man or woman, to do two quad Lutzes in a program?

Click to expand...

Nationals doesn't count as records. But Nathan it first.

Edwin said:

We'll know when the first female quad jumps have had their premiere in a World Championships. Who will be the first, what will the score be and its effect on the results, and how will ISU respond in its first congress afterwards in the lead up to 2022 Winter Olympics. Speedskating rules have been changed to end the dominance of The Netherlands in this event, if Russia gets too dominant in figure skating, the other federations demand a re-evaluation of the code.

Open ended scoring has had a detrimental effect on the artistic quality in women's artistic gymnastics, save for the unique almost superhuman Simone Biles, who made the best out of it and proved unbeatable since like 2012. ...

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On the men's side, this issue was addressed to some extent in the last set of rules changes (June, 2018). The concern was that someone like Nathan Chen could do 6 quads in a program and score so many points that he would automatically outscore everyone else even if he did nothing else. One of the rules changes was a limitation on the number of quads that can be repeated. On the artistic side, the Grade of Execution range was expanded, with the effect that a badly done quad would be more severely penalized in the score, while an exceptionally well-done quad would receive a boost.

I believe that the ISU technical council makes recommendations about changes to the Scale of Values, etc., every two years (?). They usually do not go too wild in the years just before the Olympic Games, so I would guess that we will probably not see much action until the 2022 ISU Congress following the 2022 Games. In any case, it will probably take that long to see what happens on the ladies side as the quadster juniors move forward.

It's incredibly impressive to see these girls landing huge quads, Anna's 4ltz at Nationals was amazing and a better quad attempt than what i've seen from most of the mens in the other event, i'm more worried about girls doing quads with that thin body and tough practice sessions to get everything super clean.

Not blaming anyone really, since this is all new to all of us, coaches included, time will tell if it works, if these skaters can last through that.

Shcherbakova looks up to Mao Asada, “because she combined beautiful skating with difficult jumps,” but she also admires Boyang Jin. “When he started doing the quad Lutz, it seemed like he was doing something impossible.”

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Great taste, Anna :agree:

All the 3A girls are so sweet and well-spoken. I’m not a fan of Anna’s skating, but you have to admire her for her drive and genuine love for the sport, especially after going through that injury. Is she planning on attempting two quad Lutzes at Junior Worlds? She’s already made history, but to do that internationally would sure be something.

As for the quad revolution in ladies’ skating.....time will tell. I’m not too optimistic, for the simple fact that quads are hard (for all sexes!), and I’m always going to worry about skaters getting injured. But that doesn’t diminish these girls’ accomplishments in any way.

Mathman said:

By the way, that is a cool photo by Robin Ritoss. It doesn't quite show all the way down to the ice, but from what I can see i have a new respect for "deep edges." How did she stay upright?

Click to expand...

Sorry for quoting myself, but here's the whole photo from the GS Twitter account.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwUz9GfWsAAxkVU.jpg

Mathman said:

By the way, that is a cool photo by Robin Ritoss. It doesn't quite show all the way down to the ice, but from what I can see i have a new respect for "deep edges." How did she stay upright?

Click to expand...

There was a Japanese documentary with Anna and Sasha, in one part Anna is doing basic edging, and I've never seen anything so deep, beautiful and powerful. In truth I love all three girls (Alena, Sasha and Anna) Each brings something different and astounding to the table, all three leave me in awe of their talent and abilities.

Edwin said:

We'll know when the first female quad jumps have had their premiere in a World Championships. Who will be the first, what will the score be and its effect on the results, and how will ISU respond in its first congress afterwards in the lead up to 2022 Winter Olympics. Speedskating rules have been changed to end the dominance of The Netherlands in this event, if Russia gets too dominant in figure skating, the other federations demand a re-evaluation of the code.

Open ended scoring has had a detrimental effect on the artistic quality in women's artistic gymnastics, save for the unique almost superhuman Simone Biles, who made the best out of it and proved unbeatable since like 2012.
FIG still seems clueless in which direction to take WAG, as many sanctioned events turned into a splat fest. MAG is OK with open ended scoring, team and all around are intense and exciting competitions down to the wire, down to the landing of the very last athlete often.

I don't know about eating disorders in relation to quads, figure skaters need to be strong physically. In Russian Nationals I could see no sign of any eating disorder in any contestant. Tarakanova, Tarusina, Konstantinova, Leonova, Zagitova etc. all looked very fit and athletic and perfectly at ease with themselves, they were in command.

Only when you have this large talent pool like in Russia you can pick the young skaters with the right physique, the right mentality, those special fast action "short" muscle fibers, and train them hard to get to the level of "quadster".

I have read here that the parents of many skaters are also small of stature, so when the girls' growth plates close by 15-16 years of age, they won't grow any taller than their parents, see Kostornaya. Although I haven't yet searched for recent photos of her parents side by side with their daughter, Alyona Kostornaya seems to me the perfect build for a power skater.
As in gymnastics, I think that solidly build boys and girls "trimmed down" to gymnast or skater size and weight by regular controlled exercise and careful nutrition have the best outlook at a long and healthy career. Twig girls like Shcherbakova perhaps not, she resembles a ballet dancer, but ballet dancers are as tough as or even tougher than athletes. Looks can be deceiving, strong bones, ligaments and joints can still be inside her slender frame, she can still get very far before inevitable wear and tear catch up with her.

! Power Skaters are Go !

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Девочка Трюк, jumping Quads, driving Quads
Александра Трусова;
одна из Гостей из Будущего,
вместе с Аленой Косторной и Анной Щербаковой

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Many figure skaters from around the world have said that disordered eating is very prevalent among figure skaters. One (I forget who) estimated that at least 75% of the skaters they had been around (women and men) had some form of disordered eating or unhealthy relationships with food. I have no idea how accurate that is, but the point is that it's very common. So to say that that they look fine and you need strength, so therefore it's not happening is pretty naive. You can't just tell by looking at someone whether or not they are dealing with disordered eating.
And I'm not speaking about quad girls specifically, just skaters in general.

gsk8 said:

Anna Shcherbakova took many by surprise when she won the title at Russian Nationals (senior level) in her debut at the event. The ladies' competition at this event is incredibly competitive, and big names such as Olympic Champion Alina Zagitova and two-time World Champion Evgenia Medvedeva were competing, but when they faltered, Shcherbakova seized the opportunity. The delicate 14-year-old put out two clean, stunning performances and landed a quad Lutz in the Free Skating to rise from fifth to first place.

More...

What's your take on girls and quads?

Good luck to her at Russian Junior Nats!

Click to expand...

"Anna Shcherbakova: ‘The fact that we are girls doesn’t change that we can jump’ "

Ata girl! You tell'em my dumpling! https://media.giphy.com/media/uANAw17T64SK11vQ8Q/giphy.gif

I'm offering an olive branch to figure skating world here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...omon-s-Decision-jumping-beans-vs-silver-foxes
We can possibly find a solution and probably can satisfy more people with this.

SnowWhite said:

Many figure skaters from around the world have said that disordered eating is very prevalent among figure skaters. One (I forget who) estimated that at least 75% of the skaters they had been around (women and men) had some form of disordered eating or unhealthy relationships with food. I have no idea how accurate that is, but the point is that it's very common. So to say that that they look fine and you need strength, so therefore it's not happening is pretty naive. You can't just tell by looking at someone whether or not they are dealing with disordered eating.
And I'm not speaking about quad girls specifically, just skaters in general.

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Take figure skating out of the equation and that 75% number is probably a good estimate for the female population qualify as at some point qualified with the points of having either 'disordered eating' or 'unhealthy relationship with food'