US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

pearly said:

I truly hope there will be more information at some point in the future. This still says very little. (A minor? How old? How old was John?)

Click to expand...

John was 33.

A minor is a minor. It does not matter what age they were. And it does not matter that the other accuser was an adult—a sexual assault allegation deserves to be taken seriously and investigated.

rachno2 said:

John was 33.

A minor is a minor. It does not matter what age they were. And it does not matter that the other accuser was an adult—sexual assault is sexual assault.

Click to expand...

I know, should have written: how old had John been at the time of the alleged misconduct. We still don't know.

rachno2 said:

Sorry you don’t see the connection. Plenty of survivors do see the connection. What is powerful to you might be offensive and insensitive to others. It might be acceptable to one survivor and unacceptable to another.

Friends, colleagues, etc. have the right to post whatever they want. I don’t see anybody censoring skaters or deleting their social media accounts. We also have the right to call them out when we feel they haven’t gone far enough, or have only addressed one side of the story.

Click to expand...

It's not their responsibility nor within their capability to address "all sides" of the "story", especially at this point, or "go far enough". Enough for whom?

pearly said:

I know, should have written: how old had John been at the time of the alleged misconduct. We still don't know.

Click to expand...

Yeah, we don’t know how old he was at the time of the alleged incidents. I’m not optimistic we will ever know more than the information provided in the article, unfortunately.

Sorry for being on the defensive.

I´m so gonna get hell for the following comment: couldn´t Brennan wait a couple of days before the recent note? What did we as community earned from her reporting that right now but more paint for everyone involve...

Breaking: Two-time U.S. pairs figure skating champion John Coughlin was facing three reports of sexual misconduct against him — two of them involving minors — when he took his own life.

https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/status/1087079741671247873

cruzceleste said:

I´m so gonna get hell for the following comment: couldn´t Brennan wait a couple of days before the recent note? What did we as community earned from her reporting that right now but more paint for everyone involve...

Click to expand...

I doubt a couple of days would have made it any less painful. I truly do feel bad for his family and friends.

What did we as a community earn? I’m sure the accusers earned validation, especially after 24 hours of hearing about how great a man he was.

Sam-Skwantch said:

I haven’t followed that case very closely but are the bodies responsible for investigating the allegations facing legal issues of their own here? I’d imagine that they are exposed to some liability for negligence here for not only the reported cases but any that came after. It wouldn’t even take a very good lawyer to work this one out.

Click to expand...

I don't know about legal issues per se, but USA Gymnastics is in absolute shambles.

pearly said:

I truly hope there will be more information at some point in the future. This still says very little. (A minor? How old? How old was John?)

Click to expand...

We’ll know in time but we’re going to have to be patient and avoid speculation for the moment. It will feel like a decade to the Internet culture but I say in the next few weeks we’ll know enough to have a much better grip on the situation.

So it was an adult who made the charges in November and a subsequent investigation found something in his past. At what point in the past and the nature of the multiple new allegations is unknown except that the victims were minors at the time. I think we will see the details about this and probably even more revealed soon enough.

I do suspect as a courtesy to his family and in addition to just not being prepared (this happened on Friday) that Safe Sport will have to change gears a bit and over the next couple of work days they will begin to wrap up the report and disclose any pertinent information. Monday is a holiday here in the US too so keep that in mind

As an unrelated example : I have a freind who volunteers for the Colorado Avalanche Information Center and assists in recovery of Avalanche victims. When there is a death they release preliminary reports but it takes weeks to release a lot of the details. It is a different situation but believe me when I say social media lights up with people who second guess and speculate on the decisions made that put people in harms way. They get a lot of flack at times for not being more forthcoming in a timely manner but it’s crucial to only release information that is accurate out of respect to the victim and for the safety of those who may potentially be trying to learn from the situation that lead to an avalanche fatality.

rachno2 said:

John was 33.

A minor is a minor. It does not matter what age they were. And it does not matter that the other accuser was an adult—a sexual assault allegation deserves to be taken seriously and investigated.

Click to expand...

John was 33 when he died, and when the allegations were announced. There are people under investigation by SafeSport for incidents that happened 20 years ago.

rachno2 said:

I doubt a couple of days would have made it any less painful.

What did we as a community earn? I’m sure the accusers earned validation, especially after 24 hours of hearing about how great a man he was.

Click to expand...

They have not earned anything at this point, and would not until the verdict is final, at this point the case is still only in accusations.

louisa05 said:

Why? Do you believe that his family doesn't deserve the dignity of giving him a proper burial?

Click to expand...

Everyone deserves that dignity. We were fortunate we had enough to bury my sister after she lost her battle with cancer, but I totally understand those who don't, especially when the death is out of the blue like that. Funerals, even very simple ones, are exorbitantly expensive.

moonvine said:

I don't know about legal issues per se, but USA Gymnastics is in absolute shambles.

Click to expand...

Well if the police are saying “we listened to the Doctors of the accused suspect’s team in order to dismiss complaints against him” I would hope that someone is or has put a lawsuit in order. Just thinking about how many more needlessly had to endure this pervert on this fact alone is disturbing. It’s a pretty obvious case of liability based on negligence.

cruzceleste said:

They have not earned anything at this point, and would not until the verdict is final, at this point the case is still only in accusations.

Click to expand...

That’s why I used the word “accusers” rather than “survivors.” Because there has been no final verdict. However, I am glad their accusations have been publicized, even just a little, so that the community does not lose sight of the case in the midst of its grieving. We cannot do that. That’s why Brennan’s article is important.

moonvine said:

John was 33 when he died, and when the allegations were announced. There are people under investigation by SafeSport for incidents that happened 20 years ago.

Click to expand...

True, that is important to note.

I think the main takeaway is that there were three separate allegations of sexual misconduct, and SafeSport decided that they warranted a suspension.

rachno2 said:

Complete agree with your first point.

As to the second, I totally get it. Really. I know they are suffering. I know they are speaking out of shock and pain. I know they are human, and these are understandable human reactions.

But they are also public figures with public platforms, and their words matter. Their words have an impact on those still living, some of whom might very well be survivors considering whether or not to come forward. And I’m not even talking about Coughlin, necessarily—again, we do not know if he is innocent or guilty, and we may never know. But if a survivor is considering coming forward about an assault (perpetrated by ANYBODY in the sport, Coughlin or otherwise), and they see all of these memorial posts, without nuance, without acknowledgement of the situation (or, worse, containing outright denial), they do not feel safe or heard or respected. Sometimes you need to take a step back and understand that this is bigger than you and your personal “truth.”

Mervin Tran’s post was a fantastic example of honoring the memory of a dear friend while acknowledging the potential survivor(s) and their pain. I wish more skaters followed his example:

https://mobile.twitter.com/skate_moivo/status/1086706218415075329

You can use your platform to grieve AND to empower survivors.

Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and agree. However to my point, attacking them at this time is not going to be productive. Once a bit of time has passed then it will be time for that conversation. Everything is to raw. If something must be said, then say it with compassion, not attacking as many are doing.

Bcash said:

It's not their responsibility nor within their capability to address "all sides" of the "story", especially at this point, or "go far enough". Enough for whom?

Click to expand...

The skaters may have most likely chosen to acknowledge the loss of a teammate and will struggle to reconcile any allegations with their experiences which may have only been positive. There will be plenty of time to analyze the situation after the family buries their loved one. Any past or potential threat in this case no longer exists and there is no urgency to pick this apart now.

BravesSkateFan said:

I understand what you are saying and agree. However to my point, attacking them at this time is not going to be productive. Once a bit of time has passed then it will be time for that conversation. Everything is to raw. If something must be said, then say it with compassion, not attacking as many are doing.

Click to expand...

I would agree if some of them weren’t major public figures with outsized social media followings. (Adam Rippon, Johnny Weir, and Nathan Chen come to mind — they are first-name celebrities within skating and to a lesser extent within the US itself, whereas someone like Chris Knierem, while a big name within the skating community, simply doesn’t have the same level of visibility, has exponentially fewer followers, etc.)

Part of social media is brand management, as crass as that sounds. And before anyone chews me out for that: I have been internet famous. I have been a face and voice of a community, and a community disproportionately populated by teenagers and young adults. It is a responsibility, and I had discussions with younger members about social media often — explaining that people love nothing more than to find something inflammatory that you said and blow it up, even years later, and that infamy and respect are not the same, that my policy was to make my Twitter frankly boring, etc. It was also my “job” (?) (goal?) to model healthy adulthood, which ... went a long way, honestly. When people see the leaders of a community refusing to be consumed by ugliness and drama rather than promoting a positive vision — there actually is less drama! There are always hostilities and trolls, but when the faces of the “brand” aren’t engaged in that, it’s not seen as a road to power/fame/influence. I didn’t start out seeking the power I had, but once I realized I had it, I made sure to present an alternative to the norm and wound up a substitute sister/mother to many, many people. (Which isn’t new, but yeah.)

When you have that level of influence, it’s your job to be a responsible actor. And to that end... the ink hadn’t even begun to dry on the story of Coughlin’s suspension when news of his death broke. Of course those affected have the right to their feelings and to grieve, but — I expect more from people with tens of thousands of followers. Demand, no. But I do expect there to be a level of either professional management or self-reflection and an awareness of the major facts, a moment of sobriety before posting. To say “I knew John as a friend. I know there is an on-going investigation by SafeSport, and it is my fervent hope that whatever conclusions are reached are eventually made public. There are no easy answers.” Or to opt out of saying anything, frankly, because complexity and 280 characters don’t mix well.

If you want to post about your feelings and share them with fellow skaters, create a private account and only friend accounts managed by those people. You can have a platform or you can say whatever you want, but you can’t leverage your social media following as a platform to announce you’ll be skating in shows one day and then as a diary the next. It doesn’t work like that. And if you’re using your social media account to to build your brand, either stay away from off-brand topics that are going to generate controversy or be willing to deal with the consequences of having opinions not everyone agrees with. You can’t have both. Whether or not that’s fair... I thought it was, frankly, having been in that situation. That’s just the nature of the social media game.

I’m not interested in policing anyone’s grief, but I am disturbed by how quickly after Coughlin’s death was announced a narrative was set that this was an innocent man who had been driven to suicide by false accusations and feminist hysteria. Within the skating community, it was well-known that he had been sanctioned, but not to people who just saw Tweets expressing shock and grief, and the narrative of an innocent man driven to suicide has already been seized on by various partisans outside of skating for whom that story supports a political agenda. A lie that conforms to stereotypes and pre-existing beliefs spreads faster than a messy, honest truth. And I also find it ... disconcerting ... how fast all the blue checkmarked skaters on Twitter came out with stories of how wonderful Coughlin was without any mention of the fact that every single human being is complicated and Coughlin particularly so. It utterly erased the victims and reduces his probable bad acts to a whispered footnote. It’s helped create a permission structure in which people feel it’s okay to say that those who filed complaints or drew any attention to the SafeSport sanctions has “blood on their hands.”

Metis said:

I’m not interested in policing anyone’s grief, but I am disturbed by how quickly after Coughlin’s death was announced a narrative was set that this was an innocent man who had been driven to suicide by false accusations and feminist hysteria. Within the skating community, it was well-known that he had been sanctioned, but not to people who just saw Tweets expressing shock and grief, and the narrative of an innocent man driven to suicide has already been seized on by various partisans outside of skating for whom that story supports a political agenda. A lie that conforms to stereotypes and pre-existing beliefs spreads faster than a messy, honest truth. And I also find it ... disconcerting ... how fast all the blue checkmarked skaters on Twitter came out with stories of how wonderful Coughlin was without any mention of the fact that every single human being is complicated and Coughlin particularly so. It utterly erased the victims and reduces his probable bad acts to a whispered footnote. It’s helped create a permission structure in which people feel it’s okay to say that those who filed complaints or drew any attention to the SafeSport sanctions has “blood on their hands.”

Click to expand...

Because it's a man's world. Misogyny is everywhere, ingrained in everthing. Figure Skating is not immune to the larger culture.

I am concerned about the newly created IG troll accounts (no followers, no following, no posts) that are attacking skaters who post their grief about John’s death. And attacking, AFAIK, mostly female skaters. In graphic terms.

I’m very glad to see Mervin Tran telling one of the troll accounts who accused a skater of being insensitive to victims with her memory of John to apologize or get the bleep out. Mervin did not say bleep

I want Mervin to defend me if I ever encounter trolls on IG:thumbsup:

moonvine said:

John was 33 when he died, and when the allegations were announced. There are people under investigation by SafeSport for incidents that happened 20 years ago.

Click to expand...

Again - making no judgments about this case at all...

I found this confusing. According to that lady on the TSL video, she was being asked about Coughlin in the 90's. Twenty years ago, He would have been 13.

Maybe I misunderstood something - that interview was a trainwreck- but this doesn't make much sense.