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Thread: US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

  1. #41
    Bona Fide Member StitchMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonvine View Post
    I don't dispute that at all. I just am too cynical to believe that there is a way to fix it.
    Well to be honest it likely is a multi-generational fix... but we need to at least bring it up and try.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by StitchMonkey View Post
    Well to be honest it likely is a multi-generational fix... but we need to at least bring it up and try.
    I'd love that. I am sensitive to it because a close family member went to trial and was found not guilty, but all anyone remembers is that the person was arrested for x thing. I mean people spit at the person in Walmart and everything. Mug shot in the paper of course. Home address in the paper. Ended up moving many states away after the not guilty verdict for fear people would come and do something to the house or them.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexz View Post
    BTW,




    https://www.usfigureskating.org/stor...memberservices

    So Richard Callaghan was suspended more than a year ago. At least SafeSport says so on USFS website. Has he been coaching until recently when this was made public?
    From that quote I read it comes off as competitions/exhibitions, not necessarily restrict someone from being able to offer services not affiliated to their organization.

  4. #44
    Bona Fide Member StitchMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonvine View Post
    I'd love that. I am sensitive to it because a close family member went to trial and was found not guilty, but all anyone remembers is that the person was arrested for x thing. I mean people spit at the person in Walmart and everything. Mug shot in the paper of course. Home address in the paper. Ended up moving many states away after the not guilty verdict for fear people would come and do something to the house or them.
    Please share your story whenever you can. We need to see this side of life as well.

    Frankly I think with our current level of access to information and increased communication... more things like this will come up. More "things" will be reported because our understanding of what is reportable is growing. And with that will come more people being cleared; while at the same time that information will be more widely disseminated, while also being preserved and accessible for-basically-ever. We can not function as a society with a "one hint of impropriety and you're out" mentality long term. Too many people are going to hit their one strike.

    The sad reality is that people even states away likely passed over your family member for a job based on a 30 second google search. We really should not be ok with that. And the more we can humanize the victims, the more people might think to at least spend an extra 30 seconds to find out they were cleared. We need to fight for these baby steps.

  5. #45
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    Re Coughlin, according to NBC Sports blog:

    … U.S. Figure Skating made the following statement on Wednesday:

    The U.S. Center for SafeSport has published an undisclosed “interim measure – restriction” in a matter involving John Coughlin. The Center has not prohibited or limited Coughlin from taking part in any activity under the Center’s jurisdiction. As the undisclosed matter remains under the Center’s jurisdiction, all inquiries should be directed to the U.S. Center for SafeSport. ...

    https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/...ted-safesport/ (Jan 9)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice coverage View Post
    Re Coughlin, according to NBC Sports blog:

    … U.S. Figure Skating made the following statement on Wednesday:

    The U.S. Center for SafeSport has published an undisclosed “interim measure – restriction” in a matter involving John Coughlin. The Center has not prohibited or limited Coughlin from taking part in any activity under the Center’s jurisdiction. As the undisclosed matter remains under the Center’s jurisdiction, all inquiries should be directed to the U.S. Center for SafeSport. ...

    https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/...ted-safesport/ (Jan 9)
    This confuses me very much. So he is not restricted as per the title?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonvine View Post
    This confuses me very much. So he is not restricted as per the title?
    Just a guess (and I too find things confusing):

    Is it possible that SafeSport is enforcing some other kind of "restriction" that does not fit the description of prohibiting or limiting Coughlin "from taking part in any activity under the Center’s jurisdiction"???

    Athough it is not readily apparent to me what other kind of restriction that could be??

    FWIW, an excerpt from SafeSport Practices and Procedures (p. 9):

    … Interim measures may include, but are not limited to, altering training schedules, providing chaperones, implementing contact limitations between the parties, and suspensions. ...

    Huge disclaimer that I have no idea what actually is in effect with Coughlin, but I suppose that "providing chaperones" would be an example of a measure that would not prohibit or limit activity???

    And FWIW, the OP states that his eligibility was restricted on Dec 17. I assume that Coughlin would not violate whatever the restriction is. He did take part in a club seminar-type event on Dec 28 -- the one in Alabama with Gracie. [ETA: In other words, I assume that the club event was not a violation of whatever restriction is in effect.]

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice coverage View Post
    He did take part in a club seminar-type event on Dec 28 -- the one in Alabama with Gracie.
    What. Can I have a link to this seminar?

  9. #49
    Bona Fide Member StitchMonkey's Avatar
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    I was actually thinking that some form of agreed counseling could in interim measure that would not restrict a person.

    Let's say he lost his temper and punched a wall. A few anger management classes would not be out of line in that case.

  10. #50
    GS Supporter noskates's Avatar
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    Stitch brought up a good point and I like Hanyuufan5's post - what if he lost his temper and hit the wall OR what if a disgruntled parent felt he was being too tough on her little darling, or what if a skater decided he/she wasn't getting enough attention and complained. Or what if John confronted them with their poor training habits? Honestly, everyone just automatically assumes he sexually assaulted a minor or slapped someone or bullied them. In this society, given what's happened in gymnastics, we all have a tendency to think the worst and I totally understand that. But, it doesn't help that very little information has come out which allows people's imaginations to run amok. Again, I AM NOT condoning mistreatment of any child/athlete/whoever. If John had mistreated someone and they had enough proof to open an investigation, why would the sport be slapping him on the paw instead of banning him from all activity until the case is investigated and adjudicated? It may turn out that he's the devil incarnate in which case Safesport has almost condoned his behavior with their lightweight "interim measure!" This is just so weird to me.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1904sk8 View Post
    I live close to the rink in Hackensack and it is crazy here. Apparently most coaches in the area believe the allegations are unfounded.
    We're neighbors, apparently!

  12. #52
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    Interim measures could be useful if what they're investigating is a more ambiguous he-said-she-said scenario. Let's say for instance the charge is emotional and verbal abuse. I can say from my own personal childhood experiences that plenty of teachers will walk right up to the line of what is allowed. It doesn't make you feel much better when they're having to get creative, or be threatening in ways that aren't super obvious. I had a ballet teacher as a kid who, when correcting my posture or arms or stance would squeeze and twist and pinch me so hard I'd start crying and then get scolded in front of the class as an example of someone they shouldn't be like, because I was lazy and didn't want to improve. It wasn't obvious, didn't leave a mark, wasn't that bad, considering, but it wasn't an appropriate way to behave and I was still quite relieved when I was switched to another class for scheduling reasons.

    I do think what Coughlin is being investigated for is nothing so severe as what Lavrik has been accused of, otherwise there would be much harsher measures applied. But toleration of more minor infractions often lead to ignoring more obvious signs because everyone does it as a "joke". For instance, repeated jokes of a sexual nature, even if he would never dream of actually touching his students inappropriately, can be a warning flag. Sometimes they are just jokes! Sometimes they hint at something deeper. And they let real predators blend in.

  13. #53
    Aleksandra Trusova, Driving Quads, Jumping Quads Edwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1904sk8 View Post
    I live close to the rink in Hackensack and it is crazy here. Apparently most coaches in the area believe the allegations are unfounded.
    This is usually a good indicator for coaches, trainers etc that work with the athletes in plain public view.
    Other trainers, staff watching, parents behind the glass screen, etc, have their own 'gut feelings' about what is appropriate and what is off in behaviour. Verbal and non verbal signs all add up.
    Sporting communities are close knit and any rumours spread swiftly.

    Nasser was a doctor with authority and took his chances in his own office and private rooms, making sure he was alone with the gymnasts.

    Still, it is a fact that accused and fired coaches can find employment elsewhere without any problem, verification of references or research into their past.
    Here in The Netherlands a legal Certificate of Good Conduct is required for any person working with children and youths and a register is kept after a series of abuse scandals in various sports and other leisure activities.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice coverage View Post
    [ETA: In other words, I assume that the club event was not a violation of whatever restriction is in effect.]
    Post a link to the seminar. You shouldn't -assume- anything. Those organizers and the event need to be reported.

    1. John Coughlin was restricted on December 17, but this was not publicized. Very very few people knew until Christine Brennan was tipped off a few days ago, which makes several weeks of silence. It was a real possibility that the seminar organizers did not know about John's restriction.

    2. USFS is also giving Christine Brennan radio silence.

    A troubling snapshot of a U.S. Olympic NGB post-Nassar: I have sent 5 emails to U.S. Figure Skating's spokeswoman over the past 50 hours, trying to get a response to SafeSport's restriction of the eligibility of 2-time national pairs champion John Coughlin. The result? Silence.
    https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/s...19964268187648

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    … 2. USFS is also giving Christine Brennan radio silence.

    A troubling snapshot of a U.S. Olympic NGB post-Nassar: I have sent 5 emails to U.S. Figure Skating's spokeswoman over the past 50 hours, trying to get a response to SafeSport's restriction of the eligibility of 2-time national pairs champion John Coughlin. The result? Silence.
    https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/s...19964268187648
    As mentioned above, USFS gave a statement to NBC Sports yesterday (Jan 9), which NBC posted at 6:13 pm ET.

    Brennan's tweet is from before then.

    Repeating part of the USFS statement: "The Center has not prohibited or limited Coughlin from taking part in any activity under the Center’s jurisdiction."



    ETA:

    Soon after the older tweet in brightphoton's post, Brennan did receive the same statement from USFS:

    https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/s...32254799495172

    https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/s...34794286813184

  16. #56
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    Which, as Christine notes, took over 50 hours to write.

    I notice you're not posting a link to the seminar.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    .. I notice you're not posting a link to the seminar.
    Based on the USFS statement, I have no reason to.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice coverage View Post
    Based on the USFS statement, I have no reason to.
    It's your choice.

    I've done a search on the USFS events website, and found no record of any event, seminar or otherwise, in Alabama in December 2018. Possibly the records are incomplete, but possibly it was scraped in light of the allegations and investigation.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    It's your choice.

    I've done a search on the USFS events website, and found no record of any event, seminar or otherwise, in Alabama in December 2018. Possibly the records are incomplete, but possibly it was scraped in light of the allegations and investigation.
    There are IG posts from participants, which are public but as they are from persons who do not post here, AFAIK, I do not choose to link. John Coughlin was there, or at least he was taking photos with participants, and Gracie Gold was also at the seminar.

    The seminar was held and Coughlin participated. ETA: based on these posts.
    Last edited by el henry; 01-10-2019 at 05:00 PM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightphoton View Post
    … I've done a search on the USFS events website, and found no record of any event, seminar or otherwise, in Alabama in December 2018. Possibly the records are incomplete, but possibly it was scraped in light of the allegations and investigation.
    I do not know what you mean by "USFS events website." (The events page on the USFS site is for competition listings, AFAIK?)

    In any case, USFS did not post what I saw/see about the event and from the event.

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