US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

noskates · Jan 19, 2019

I think the speculation and condemnation without facts is equally disgusting. If I were John's family I would want this resolved one way or another just to put all the rumors and innuendoes and guessing to rest.

But I don't think anyone is disregarding victim's lives and feelings.

andromache · Jan 19, 2019

georgia said:
I can report anyone, and for any reason if I want today, right now, and completely change the life of a person forever.. You see, we don’t give enough time for proper investigation We are ready to accept what we hear and then we tend to take it to the next level! It will take a long time and many sacrifices to learn how t handle it. Kids and women have suffered a lot through the years. Personally I like to wait before I throw the stone.

The investigation was ongoing. Coughlin hadn’t lost his job permanently, he wasn’t sent to jail - no one threw stones. Media outlets made people aware of the existence of an investigation.

The rate of false accusations is very, very minimal. And by suggesting that these accusations are false, you are invalidating the feelings of any abuse survivor reading this thread and discouraging anyone from coming forward about their abuse (no matter who it is from) because you do not want to believe them.

georgia · Jan 19, 2019

heyang said:
Sorry, I disagree. Given the impact of sexual abuse on victims, it would be irresponsible to not investigate allegations. If they prove unwarranted, the person accused will be cleared , although I admit it would impact his/her career somewhat. If TPTB did not investigate and accusations were true, it would be destroy many more lives - just look at Nassar's victims and how MSU and USGA ignored the accusations for years.

I can report anyone, and for any reason if I want today, right now, and completely change the life of a person forever.. You see, we don’t give enough time for proper investigation We are ready to accept what we hear and then we tend to take it to the next level! It will take a long time and many sacrifices to learn how t handle it. Kids and women have suffered a lot through the years. Personally I like to wait before I throw the stone.

aqua70 · Jan 19, 2019

I don't think that whether the accusations made against John Coughlin were of a less serious nature simply because it's being investigated by SafeSport vs. law enforcement. There are many other types of instances where the victim may opt to go to the authorities nearest to them rather than to police first. For example, women who are assaulted on campus may file their claims through the school first. Also, the American gymnasts who charged Nassaur with sexual misconduct actually started by telling/filing their charges to the school or organization around them first.

FWIW, I also hope that the investigation is continuing on, but I doubt that the conclusions will be revealed in January at least; there are a lot of Nationals happening at the moment & no federation is going to want this investigation to take center stage, especially in the wake of John's suicide.

louisa05 · Jan 19, 2019

aqua70 said:
I don't think that whether the accusations made against John Coughlin were of a less serious nature simply because it's being investigated by SafeSport vs. law enforcement. There are many other types of instances where the victim may opt to go to the authorities nearest to them rather than to police first. For example, women who are assaulted on campus may file their claims through the school first. Also, the American gymnasts who charged Nassaur with sexual misconduct actually started by telling/filing their charges to the school or organization around them first.

FWIW, I also hope that the investigation is continuing on, but I doubt that the conclusions will be revealed in January at least; there are a lot of Nationals happening at the moment & no federation is going to want this investigation to take center stage, especially in the wake of John's suicide.

I taught in a Catholic school at the time that Safe Environment practices were put into place due to abuse scandals. Here's the thing: reporting to the organization involved is all good and fine. But my church has been drug through the mud and condemned widely for over a decade for allowing people to report to the organization involved and for carrying on its own investigations without the involvement of appropriate law enforcement. If this were about abuse reported to a Catholic church or school authority that subsequently chose not to report any potentially criminal action immediately to law enforcement, the responses would be way different. For good reason. It was a grave moral error for the church to hide criminal activity from local law enforcement over and over for decades all over the world. It is not okay that USA Gymnastics and Michigan State University did not contact law enforcement when allegations were made about Larry Nassar. It is not okay that Penn State did not contact law enforcement when an eye witness reported abuse by Jerry Sandusky.

And by the same logic, it is not okay if SafeSport has investigated potentially criminal abuse in this case or any other without immediately contacting local law enforcement. And I cannot believe that here and on another forum people are insisting that it is--while at the same time claiming to only care about the welfare of alleged victims.

bobbob · Jan 19, 2019

I don't understand the role of SafeSport, and I think the way this was handled was very unprofessional. Why are they constantly providing updates/suspensions without any information? If I was abused (or heard my child had been), my first reaction would be to go to law enforcement, not some obscure organization which no one has ever heard of.

I suspect either the claims were sort of dubious (LE was not contacted), or LE WAS contacted and are investigating. Except they are much more professional and wouldn't cause such a media ruckus without finishing the investigation.

Rest in peace John.

andromache · Jan 19, 2019

Organizations like churches, universities, and obviously sports like to keep all potential scandal as quiet as possible. SafeSport appears to be an effort to keep all investigations “in-house” in order to reduce scandal while still claiming to provide transparency.

They pretend they are responsible enough to investigate it themselves and it’s all a cover.

skatesofgold · Jan 19, 2019

andromache said:
Organizations like churches, universities, and obviously sports like to keep all potential scandal as quiet as possible. SafeSport appears to be an effort to keep all investigations “in-house” in order to reduce scandal while still claiming to provide transparency.

They pretend they are responsible enough to investigate it themselves and it’s all a cover.

And that's why, according to mandatory reporting, you're supposed to report to your state child and family services organization first if you suspect abuse or neglect, but it seems like the only people who know this are educators and even schools aren't perfect when dealing with these kinds of situations.

lanceupper1114 · Jan 19, 2019

bobbob said:
I don't understand the role of SafeSport, and I think the way this was handled was very unprofessional. Why are they constantly providing updates/suspensions without any information? If I was abused (or heard my child had been), my first reaction would be to go to law enforcement, not some obscure organization which no one has ever heard of.

I suspect either the claims were sort of dubious (LE was not contacted), or LE WAS contacted and are investigating. Except they are much more professional and wouldn't cause such a media ruckus without finishing the investigation.

Rest in peace John.

Yeah I don't get it either. I would get it if SafeSport just provided education and resources, and I agree investigation should be conducted by law enforcement. Conducting secretive investigations within to prevent law enforcement involvement exacerbates the problem of potential misconduct; it doesn't prevent it.

It also doesn't make sense to just release names of people accused of something without any other details of what or how etc. Although, I think if someone was accused, parents of minors in contact with accused person should definitely be notified. But if it went to law enforcement, those parents would know anyway since they and their kids would probably be questioned.

el henry · Jan 19, 2019

I feel I need to jump in, although I know next to nothing about Safe Sport, to correct a misimpression:

SafeSport does NOT *replace* law enforcement. If a crime (contact under the age of consent, forcible contact) occurs, it should be reported to law enforcement. If it is communicated to an organization like Safe Sport, they are mandatory reporters (ETA: in my state) who should report knowledge of a crime to law enforcement.

SafeSport provides, I would imagine, further protections above and beyond law enforcement. Contact with persons of the age of consent. Non forcible contact. Bullying that is not physical abuse. Behaviors that the organization prohibits, but that the law does not consider a crime.

I am making this surmise based on my own work with similar in-house procedures, knowing nothing about SafeSport procedures other than the website,

Further, “secrecy” is not for the organization’s benefit, but for the *complainant’s* benefit. To encourage open and honest communication from persons with complaints. Who are free to go to the press, the public, or wherever they want if they do not want such privacy. At least in my organization.

So very sad all around:sad21:

brightphoton · Jan 19, 2019

What is the harshest punishment possible from SafeSport? Is it being banned from the skating rink, forever?

lanceupper1114 · Jan 19, 2019

el henry said:
I feel I need to jump in, although I know next to nothing about Safe Sport, to correct a misimpression:

SafeSport does NOT *replace* law enforcement. If a crime (contact under the age of consent, forcible contact) occurs, it should be reported to law enforcement. If it is communicated to an organization like Safe Sport, they are mandatory reporters (ETA: in my state) who should report knowledge of a crime to law enforcement.

SafeSport provides, I would imagine, further protections above and beyond law enforcement. Contact with persons of the age of consent. Non forcible contact. Bullying that is not physical abuse. Behaviors that the organization prohibits, but that the law does not consider a crime.

I am making this surmise based on my own work with similar in-house procedures, knowing nothing about SafeSport procedures other than the website,

Further, “secrecy” is not for the organization’s benefit, but for the *complainant’s* benefit. To encourage open and honest communication from persons with complaints. Who are free to go to the press, the public, or wherever they want if they do not want such privacy. At least in my organization.

So very sad all around:sad21:

I see. That makes sense.

bobbob · Jan 19, 2019

el henry said:
I feel I need to jump in, although I know next to nothing about Safe Sport, to correct a misimpression:

SafeSport does NOT *replace* law enforcement. If a crime (contact under the age of consent, forcible contact) occurs, it should be reported to law enforcement. If it is communicated to an organization like Safe Sport, they are mandatory reporters (ETA: in my state) who should report knowledge of a crime to law enforcement.

SafeSport provides, I would imagine, further protections above and beyond law enforcement. Contact with persons of the age of consent. Non forcible contact. Bullying that is not physical abuse. Behaviors that the organization prohibits, but that the law does not consider a crime.

I am making this surmise based on my own work with similar in-house procedures, knowing nothing about SafeSport procedures other than the website,

Further, “secrecy” is not for the organization’s benefit, but for the *complainant’s* benefit. To encourage open and honest communication from persons with complaints. Who are free to go to the press, the public, or wherever they want if they do not want such privacy. At least in my organization.

So very sad all around:sad21:

Given the gravity of the claims accused, they seem to fall more in the LE category than the SafeSport category, though. SafeSport just seems dubious to me because it seems like a private organization. For any of you out there in similar situations, I would still suggest, when in doubt, law enforcement is the way to go. Doesn't hurt to do both.

moonvine · Jan 19, 2019

heyang said:
Sorry, I disagree. Given the impact of sexual abuse on victims, it would be irresponsible to not investigate allegations. If they prove unwarranted, the person accused will be cleared , although I admit it would impact his/her career somewhat. If TPTB did not investigate and accusations were true, it would be destroy many more lives - just look at Nassar's victims and how MSU and USGA ignored the accusations for years.

Surely allegations can be investigated without making them public.

DSQ · Jan 19, 2019

moonvine said:
Surely allegations can be investigated without making them public.

I think the worry is that in the past when names have been kept secret accusations end up being swept under the rug. We are living in a post Nassar, Catholic Church and Sandusky world where transparency is what is being demanded after years of failures.

I only hope the investigation is completed in due course after such a tragic development and the the alleged victims and Coughlin’s family can have some sort of resolution.

Any further speculation on our part would be a disservice to the gravity of the situation.

moonvine · Jan 19, 2019

I invite anyone who thinks victims do not lie to look at any of the satanic child care abuse scandals in the 1990s. As far as i know they have all been proven to be completely unfounded.

Metis · Jan 19, 2019

moonvine said:
I invite anyone who thinks victims do not lie to look at any of the satanic child care abuse scandals in the 1990s. As far as i know they have all been proven to be completely unfounded.

There’s a difference between a cultural hysteria creating an environment that produces false accusations and accusing victims of making a false accusation with the intent of ruining someone’s life.

el henry · Jan 19, 2019

bobbob said:
Given the gravity of the claims accused, they seem to fall more in the LE category than the SafeSport category, though. SafeSport just seems dubious to me because it seems like a private organization. For any of you out there in similar situations, I would still suggest, when in doubt, law enforcement is the way to go. Doesn't hurt to do both.

I only know internet rumors, vague tweets, etc., so I don’t know the substance of the claims.

But you are right, that if a claimant feels comfortable doing so, they should take their complaints to as many resources as they can.

hanyuufan5 · Jan 19, 2019

With regard to transparency, SafeSport is so opaque that it looks like no one is even sure what it does. The article specifies sexual allegations but mentions others, Dave says it only does sexual allegations, my skating magazine's ad mentions bullying, a gymnast made a report for verbal/physical misconduct, ugh! Every time I think I finally understand, something changes. I am all out of feet to end up in my mouth, so I'm out of this thread until SafeSport or USFS makes a statement.

My hunch is still that this was not something illegal. If that is the case, whether the allegations are true or not, I feel terrible for the accuser. Even if they are true, if it was something legal and comparatively minor, I can't imagine the person wanted Mr. Coughlin dead over it. This is just a mess. May the Lord have mercy on all involved.

Seren · Jan 19, 2019

I only have a few thoughts.

The most important thing in any situation is to protect children. Minors rely on those individuals and safety nets around them to keep them safe. More than anything else this must take precedent. If an individual has a credible accusation of sexual misconduct against them, they cannot be allowed to work with children until that accusation is investigated. There is no alternative to this.

It is never okay to accuse someone who reports abuse of lying. I went to Michigan State University for my undergraduate degree and the way they treated victims is horrifying. The job of determining whether an accusation is true lies with law enforcement.

There needs to be a better way to deal with situations like what happened here. If there was a serious accusation- you cannot allow that person to work with minors. At the same time if the accusation turns out to be false then destroying someones reputation in the process is tragic too. I wish there was a way to do this quietly and respectfully (if a criminal charge has not yet been filed)- where law enforcement and the appropriate organizations and individuals know what is going on but the individuals name isn't released to the public until the investigation is complete.

Everything about this is sad.

US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

noskates

andromache

georgia

aqua70

louisa05

bobbob

andromache

skatesofgold

lanceupper1114

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

brightphoton

lanceupper1114

bobbob

moonvine

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DSQ

moonvine

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Metis

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el henry

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hanyuufan5

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US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

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