US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

BeTheLivingProof · Jan 20, 2019

Seren said:
Lastly, I don’t think Gracie meant to be hurtful in her post. I didn’t see her comment about her truth being insensitive. I think she was saying that the friend she knew was kind to her and that’s all she personally knows.

This is exactly how I took Gracie’s statement too. By her stating that this was “her truth”, I interpreted that as her acknowledging that others may have a different truth when it comes to him. I have an issue with a lot of people’s comments, but not hers. It’s hard to interpret others peoples words when you don’t know them though

Sam-Skwantch · Jan 20, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
Nassar was reported to the police on several occasions over a period of decades. I listened to a podcast about this and the police talk about the reasons things went wrong. THEY didn't have qualified people investigating the situation because they didn't have the resources or knowledge to know what they needed. They assumed his "medical" procedures were legitimate because they interviewed some of his colleagues about them, despite the fact that these experts were heavily connected to and influenced by Nassar. The police department in the podcast also discusses how they didn't have policies set in place to review previous complaints so that they were unaware of complaints that had existed previously because they'd been dismissed for lack of evidence. I don't know much about Safe Sport but I assume it exists in part to serves to to review multiple complaints in a centralized fashion that police departments would not be able to do..

It’s really freightening to imagine that the police didn’t have access to qualified medical professionals free of a conflict of interest. I mean yikes you’d think they would have medical professionals regularly working with them who have a a firm knowledge on the subject.

I’m not trying to dispute the spirit of your post in which I do agree with overall but that particular thought is disturbing on so many levels.

I haven’t followed that case very closely but are the bodies responsible for investigating the allegations facing legal issues of their own here? I’d imagine that they are exposed to some liability for negligence here for not only the reported cases but any that came after. It wouldn’t even take a very good lawyer to work this one out.

cruzceleste · Jan 20, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
Nassar was reported to the police on several occasions over a period of decades. I listened to a podcast about this and the police talk about the reasons things went wrong. T
I watched a bit of the TSL interview and was planning to finish it today but its down now. Which is a shame because I found it insightful. The most notable piece of information was that Safe Sport raised the level of the investigation very shortly before his death. They suggests that new damning information had come to light. Its not necessarily the ban that precipitated his actions but the revelations that they uncovered, which could potentially have also involved police. I understand and respect people's grieving process and don't fault them for making statements of support at this time. But to me the evidence seems to suggest something serious was occurring that was about to come to light.

Why would they took it down? Maybe it wasn´t accurate or it could interfere with an acting investigation... either way of all channel in the world I wish people would stop using that channel to educate themselves. They do things for click more that any other skating site.

el henry · Jan 20, 2019

I do not see the point in policing what skaters say about a friend who has died. :scratch2:

With the exception of one or two posts that appear to go too far in “blame”, I have seen nothing untoward. I liked and appreciated Alexa Knieirim’s, Adam Rippon’s and Gracie Gold’s statements.

What purpose is served by parsing their grief?

Sam-Skwantch · Jan 20, 2019

cruzceleste said:
Why would they took it down? Maybe it wasn´t accurate or it could interfere with an acting investigation... either way of all channel in the world I wish people would stop using that channel to educate themselves. They do things for click more that any other skating site.

:2thumbs:

TontoK · Jan 20, 2019

cruzceleste said:
Why would they took it down? Maybe it wasn´t accurate or it could interfere with an acting investigation... either way of all channel in the world I wish people would stop using that channel to educate themselves. They do things for click more that any other skating site.

While there were aspects of that interview that were educational... overall, I thought that lady was a bit of a ditz.

I'd have appreciated it a lot more if she had been very straightforward about what happens when an allegation is made - what is the SafeSport process - that sort of thing. Instead we were treated to stories about the T Shirt she wore to school when Nancy Kerrigan was attacked and other looney side stories.

My bet is that TSL decided to take the video down because she came off so weird.

CoyoteChris · Jan 20, 2019

Seren said:
The last thing we should do is make people think that because they come forward with an accusation it’s their fault when something like this happens. It is not their fault. It is tragic, but no one “has blood on their hands”.

The other thing people need to remember when discussing this case is there is a good chance the accusers are minors. We should have more care in how we speak.

Lastly, I don’t think Gracie meant to be hurtful in her post. I didn’t see her comment about her truth being insensitive. I think she was saying that the friend she knew was kind to her and that’s all she personally knows.

Ref Gracie, no flak coming from here....you are entirely correct

Ref claims that the metoo movement is going to far. Hasnt gone that way yet...but you are correct...the culture needs to change...Only when unjust claims were made and later recanted. a la Judge K. has the movement gone too far...
Ref, blood...Yes, but...there is always a but....if one person unjustly says another person raped them, and that second person kills themself, is the first person guilty of involuntary manslaughter? Only a jury can say.... Are minors different? Certainly.
And yet again there are blurry lines. I saw one of our troopers who I respected accused of asking two underaged young "ladies" to expose themselves in exchange for not getting a ticket. Fortunately, the two "ladies" were caught on a diner security camera laughing and discussing the "incident" right after it happened. This trooper and his family were put through hell due to thoughtless uncaring actions of these two "ladies" just as surely as old Harvey W. put women through hell.....

In Spokane a day ago, there was a women's march. A speaker asked all the men present to take the stage so that they could be shamed and told how to "act". I dont think 2/3 of the women there were around when we were fighting for the ERA to our constitution or even know its history. Dont get me wrong. I am on the side of every girl and woman who has been abused, just as I am on the side of every boy who was molested in church. Kudos to TontoK
"At this stage, there is no need for a rush to defend, nor a rush to condemn.

I'll wait for the facts, and I'll be patient. Because they need to get this right and report the truth, no matter what it is.

Either Mr Coughlin's past caught up with him and he couldn't face it, or he was the victim of false allegations and killed himself in despair.

I'd wager that none of us knows which is the case."

BravesSkateFan · Jan 20, 2019

My thoughts:

1) While we don't know the nature of the allegations against John Coughlin, clearly there was enough of a concern to temporarily suspend him. This does not mean that he was guilty or not guilty of the allegations. Protection of our skaters is of the utmost importance, and anyone under investigation needs to have this made public. It is the responsibility of SafeSport and the USFS to provide for the safety of athletes in any way they can. It is not thier responsibility for how the public reacts to the information. The same can be said for reporters. It is our responsibility as the public to understand that an allegation/accusation is not a conviction and also our responsibility to not take sides for/against until the matter has been investigated and all facts published.

2) Those who knew John should be allowed to grieve without being attacked. Should the accusations be true, this does not change what he was to these individuals. If anything this will only add to thier grief as they are not only greiving for his life, but also for the person they thought he was. While some of their posts may not be the most sensitive, the wounds are raw. Reconciling the idea that someone beloved to you may not be the person you thought he/she was is difficult in any situation, but even more so when you are grieving thier loss as well.

heyang · Jan 20, 2019

noskates said:
What irritates me is the smoke and mirrors and innuendoes. IF the charges are unfounded than a man's livelyhood has been compromised. I don't tolerate abuse of any kind but for Safesport to put out an announcement such as this leaves much to everyone's imagination and interpretation. Why not wait until the charges are proven or disproven.

From what I've read, the initial allegations were filed with Safe Sport in October. The organization spent 2 months investigating before the 1st level was filed. They spoke to people who merely trained at the same rink when he was just starting out. For whatever reasons currently unknown and possibly to always remain unknown, the organization found enough to be concerned enough to raise the alert level. It was then the decision of the USFSA to decide how to act and they chose suspension until the completion of the investigation.

I can only imagine that it's very hard to balance the need to protect the alleged and potential victims vs supporting innocent until proven guilty for the accused. After Nassar, most will likely err on the side of protecting the alleged victims, especially since the victims are usually minors.

If the names of his accusers were released without the completion of the investigation, imagine the treatment they would be receiving at this time.

cruzceleste · Jan 20, 2019

heyang said:
From what I've read, the initial allegations were filed with Safe Sport in October. The organization spent 2 months investigating before the 1st level was filed. They spoke to people who merely trained at the same rink when he was just starting out. For whatever reasons currently unknown and possibly to always remain unknown, the organization found enough to be concerned enough to raise the alert level. It was then the decision of the USFSA to decide how to act and they chose suspension until the completion of the investigation.

I can only imagine that it's very hard to balance the need to protect the alleged and potential victims vs supporting innocent until proven guilty for the accused. After Nassar, most will likely err on the side of protecting the alleged victims, especially since the victims are usually minors.

If the names of his accusers were released without the completion of the investigation, imagine the treatment they would be receiving at this time.

This I´conflicted with, on one hand I agree that parents and skaters need to be informed to made the decision of keep working with a person that have been accused, so I can´t fault the media (Brennan) with reporting. But there should be more education on the public side to wait for the final verdict before passing public judgement on someone is life.

I don´t think (neither I want) to know the name of the accuser (s), after the death of John, no matter what happened with the investigation there would be people that won´t believe it and would take it against them.

rachno2 · Jan 20, 2019

BravesSkateFan said:
2) Those who knew John should be allowed to grieve without being attached. Should the accusations be true, this does not change what he was to these individuals. If anything this will only add to thier grief as they are not only greiving for his life, but also for the person they thought he was. While some of their posts may not be the most sensitive, the wounds are raw. Reconciling the idea that someone beloved to you may not be the person you thought he/she was is difficult in any situation, but even more so when you are grieving thier loss as well.

Complete agree with your first point.

As to the second, I totally get it. Really. I know they are suffering. I know they are speaking out of shock and pain. I know they are human, and these are understandable human reactions.

But they are also public figures with public platforms, and their words matter. Their words have an impact on those still living, some of whom might very well be survivors considering whether or not to come forward. And I’m not even talking about Coughlin, necessarily—again, we do not know if he is innocent or guilty, and we may never know. But if a survivor is considering coming forward about an assault (perpetrated by ANYBODY in the sport, Coughlin or otherwise), and they see all of these memorial posts, without nuance, without acknowledgement of the situation (or, worse, containing outright denial), they do not feel safe or heard or respected. Sometimes you need to take a step back and understand that this is bigger than you and your personal “truth.”

Mervin Tran’s post was a fantastic example of honoring the memory of a dear friend while acknowledging the potential survivor(s) and their pain. I wish more skaters followed his example:

https://mobile.twitter.com/skate_moivo/status/1086706218415075329

You can use your platform to grieve AND to empower survivors.

heyang · Jan 20, 2019

georgia said:
I can report anyone, and for any reason if I want today, right now, and completely change the life of a person forever.. You see, we don’t give enough time for proper investigation We are ready to accept what we hear and then we tend to take it to the next level! It will take a long time and many sacrifices to learn how t handle it. Kids and women have suffered a lot through the years. Personally I like to wait before I throw the stone.

the original allegations were filed in October and initial level was announced in December. The raising of the alert level announced several weeks later. It's not as though he was suspended without any investigation - 3 months have passed since the initial allegations were reported.

heyang · Jan 20, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
Nassar was reported to the police on several occasions over a period of decades. I listened to a podcast about this and the police talk about the reasons things went wrong. THEY didn't have qualified people investigating the situation because they didn't have the resources or knowledge to know what they needed. They assumed his "medical" procedures were legitimate because they interviewed some of his colleagues about them, despite the fact that these experts were heavily connected to and influenced by Nassar. The police department in the podcast also discusses how they didn't have policies set in place to review previous complaints so that they were unaware of complaints that had existed previously because they'd been dismissed for lack of evidence. I don't know much about Safe Sport but I assume it exists in part to serves to to review multiple complaints in a centralized fashion that police departments would not be able to do.

The problem with "lack of transparency" is that you also have to protect underage victims' identities. We also have no idea if the police were involved or not. And just because someone does not have the evidence necessary to be arrested does not mean they should continue working with children after complaints have been raised. Again, I don't know much about Safe Sport but I have to imagine that they are reporting to Child Protective Services (CPS or DCFS) even if they aren't directly reporting to police. The job of CPS is to then determine whether they investigate through their department, refer the investigation to police, or both. I've had to make multiple calls to CPS because of the nature of my job (which makes me a mandated reported). So this idea that Safe Sport was investigating without any other legal entities involved to me seems ridiculous. I assume that their role would make them mandatory reporters, which would mean that they reporting to at least CPS if they suspected ANY type of abuse of children was occurring.

I watched a bit of the TSL interview and was planning to finish it today but its down now. Which is a shame because I found it insightful. The most notable piece of information was that Safe Sport raised the level of the investigation very shortly before his death. They suggests that new damning information had come to light. Its not necessarily the ban that precipitated his actions but the revelations that they uncovered, which could potentially have also involved police. I understand and respect people's grieving process and don't fault them for making statements of support at this time. But to me the evidence seems to suggest something serious was occurring that was about to come to light.

I started watching the TSL interview last night too and could not find it today. The organization is involved in all sports and seems to strive to not stigmatize alleged victims and allege perpetrators. According to the part I watched, they spoke to people who just shared the same rink as John to determine if there were any common observations regarding the alleged perpetrators behaviors going back years. They do not take the accusations lightly nor do they assume that the accusations are true.

At times, things are really just misunderstandings. My cousin's daughter was just bullied because another girl did not understand her sense of humor. Once someone actually spoke to the girl spreading rumors, they found out that she didn't like a comment on their common petiteness that my cousin's daughter thought of as an inside joke. Just using this as an example of how some situations can get out of hand - I'm not saying this is as comparable as anything that Safe Sport would need to investigate. Thanks to my cousin's wife, the school was pushed into questioning many of the girls involved and found the rumors being spread to be false.

el henry · Jan 20, 2019

rachno2 said:
....
But they are also public figures with public platforms, and their words matter. Their words have an impact on those still living, some of whom might very well be survivors considering whether or not to come forward. And I’m not even talking about Coughlin, necessarily—again, we do not know if he is innocent or guilty, and we may never know. But if a survivor is considering coming forward about an assault (perpetrated by ANYBODY in the sport, Coughlin or otherwise), and they see all of these memorial posts, they do not feel safe or heard or respected. Sometimes you need to take a step back and understand that this is bigger than you and your personal “truth.”

....

I am sorry, but I really do not see the connection here.

Saying "I am so sorry my friend John Coughlin is dead" in no way, shape or form discourages complainants :noshake:

And it is NOT these skaters' duty to say anything when talking about John Coughlin other than "I'm sorry my friend is dead. :sad21:"

It IS the duty of USFS, coaches, rink directors and everyone else to make certain that skaters feel empowered to make complaints, protected when making those complaints, and that those complaints will be taken seriously.

Mervin Tran's post was powerful. So was Gracie's, Alexa's and Adam's. No one should be following anyone's example, except for their own feelings and their own heart.

rachno2 · Jan 20, 2019

el henry said:
I am sorry, but I really do not see the connection here.

Saying "I am so sorry my friend John Coughlin is dead" in no way, shape or form discourages complainants :noshake:

And it is NOT these skaters' duty to say anything when talking about John Coughlin other than "I'm sorry my friend is dead. :sad21:"

It IS the duty of USFS, coaches, rink directors and everyone else to make certain that skaters feel empowered to make complaints, protected when making those complaints, and that those complaints will be taken seriously.

Mervin Tran's post was powerful. So was Gracie's, Alexa's and Adam's. No one should be following anyone's example, except for their own feelings and their own heart.

Sorry you don’t see the connection. Plenty of survivors do see the connection. What is powerful to you might be offensive and insensitive to others. It might be acceptable to one survivor and unacceptable to another.

Friends, colleagues, etc. have the right to post whatever they want. I don’t see anybody censoring skaters or deleting their social media accounts. We also have the right to call them out when we feel they haven’t gone far enough, or have only addressed one side of the story.

pearly · Jan 20, 2019

TontoK said:
While there were aspects of that interview that were educational... overall, I thought that lady was a bit of a ditz.

You could see Dave was pissed off because she was interrupting him (and often to say something totally irrelevant). But I think some of the things said in the interview should not have been made public yet and that is why it was taken down. Just my hunch.

el henry · Jan 20, 2019

rachno2 said:
Sorry you don’t see the connection. Plenty of survivors do see the connection. What is powerful to you might be offensive and insensitive to others.

Friends, colleagues, etc. have the right to post whatever they want. I don’t see anybody censoring skaters or deleting their social media accounts. We also have the right to call them out for ignoring survivors.

No one on this Board, unless they self-identify, knows who is a survivor and who is not. ETA: Or whether they feel ignored. I maintain that these skaters are not ignoring anyone and do not need to be "called out".

But I don't think that you or I will change our minds on the subject, so perhaps it is best left for now. ETA: for me, that is, of course I would not speak for others.

rachno2 · Jan 20, 2019

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-coughlin-death-sexual-misconduct/2632092002/

John Coughlin was facing three counts of sexual misconduct, two involving minors. Those particular allegations are what resulted in the suspension.

pearly · Jan 20, 2019

rachno2 said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-coughlin-death-sexual-misconduct/2632092002/

John Coughlin was facing three counts of sexual misconduct, two involving minors. Those particular allegations are what resulted in the suspension.

I truly hope there will be more information at some point in the future. This still says very little. (A minor? How old? How old was John?)

Bcash · Jan 20, 2019

el henry said:
I do not see the point in policing what skaters say about a friend who has died.

With the exception of one or two posts that appear to go too far in “blame”, I have seen nothing untoward. I liked and appreciated Alexa Knieirim’s, Adam Rippon’s and Gracie Gold’s statements.

What purpose is served by parsing their grief?

I agree with this. We should speak with restraint and sincerity (which they all did) about this and not overreach in policing how people, especially people who knew him, express themselves.

US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

BeTheLivingProof

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

cruzceleste

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

TontoK

Hot Tonto

CoyoteChris

BravesSkateFan

heyang

cruzceleste

rachno2

heyang

heyang

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

rachno2

pearly

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

rachno2

pearly

Bcash

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