ISU announces the death of John Coughlin

Metis said:

Because the overwhelming probability is that the accusations are true, both in this specific case and regarding sexual abuse accusations overall. According to TSL, there were rumours a police report was likely to come out soon with regard to Coughlin.

Also: your experience with a false accusation does not mean it’s okay to start off-loading what comes across as responsibility for suicide onto an abuser’s victims. My abuser taught me everything was my responsibility, and that if I wanted to stay alive, I would make him happy. When I began to make accusations against him, I lived in fear he would commit suicide if they became public — but that he’d commit suicide by first killing me. The amount of time and energy I spent in fear of his mental state and trying to alter it to evade abuse is time and energy I will never have back. Neither will Coughlin’s victims. And the way some people (not necessarily you, but it’s becoming a trend on social media) have been quick to say people have blood on their hands or are responsible for his decision — and it was, ultimately, his and only his decision — to commit suicide... I just do not have it in me to explain how abusive that is.

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I am so sorry you had to deal with such abuse. I was simply stating both sides and I am sorry if that came across as taking John's side over the victims. Perhaps my experience did shape the way I worded things.

Have there been any comments or statements from other skaters, his former partners, etc.? I guess it would have been mentioned if he left a suicide note.

Comparative Situation

I am sure the details will be released regarding the situation with SafeSport. I do want to point out that a Male USA Gymnast was put on suspension and he lost everything - all sponsors, family, friends and reputation. He was barred from the sport for a year, then SafeSport lifted the ban and no action was pursued. Many rumors about what he could have done and to who circled, then it was over. He has still not recovered and his reputation is tainted. There may very well be a police report or such that will bring more clarity to John's situation, but a Suspension due to SafeSport does not always equal guilt. I feel bad for everyone involved.

I think there is a difficult balance between wanting to express sadness for a friend's tragic death and also not dismissing potential victims. I am trying not to judge people's emotional responses to loss and I feel badly for skaters who are trying to express their feelings surrounding their friend. But as the public we should attempt to be more nuanced.

GymDad said:

I am sure the details will be released regarding the situation with SafeSport. I do want to point out that a Male USA Gymnast was put on suspension and he lost everything - all sponsors, family, friends and reputation. He was barred from the sport for a year, then SafeSport lifted the ban and no action was pursued. Many rumors about what he could have done and to who circled, then it was over. He has still not recovered and his reputation is tainted. There may very well be a police report or such that will bring more clarity to John's situation, but a Suspension due to SafeSport does not always equal guilt. I feel bad for everyone involved.

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Definitely does not equal guilt, but after months (since October) of interviews, his status went from restricted to suspended. That’s pretty big.

Metis said:

Because the overwhelming probability is that the accusations are true, both in this specific case and regarding sexual abuse accusations overall. According to TSL, there were rumours a police report was likely to come out soon with regard to Coughlin.

Also: your experience with a false accusation does not mean it’s okay to start off-loading what comes across as responsibility for suicide onto an abuser’s victims. My abuser taught me everything was my responsibility, and that if I wanted to stay alive, I would make him happy. When I began to make accusations against him, I lived in fear he would commit suicide if they became public — but that he’d commit suicide by first killing me. The amount of time and energy I spent in fear of his mental state and trying to alter it to evade abuse is time and energy I will never have back. Neither will Coughlin’s victims. And the way some people (not necessarily you, but it’s becoming a trend on social media) have been quick to say people have blood on their hands or are responsible for his decision — and it was, ultimately, his and only his decision — to commit suicide... I just do not have it in me to explain how abusive that is.

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I felt your words in my heart. Thank you for sharing.

So he has been coaching after he quit competing? If so, then the suspension is on coaching, right?

I honor everyone who is brave enough to tell their story and to share.

But, as someone who has worked (tangentially) in this field, I cannot agree there is “overwhelming” evidence (as I understand overwhelming) of any “victims” as that term is commonly used. Perhaps it is a difference of terms?

Suspensions, restrictions: until I know more, from someone who actually works for SafeSport as an organization, and not a participant who appears to have an agenda on a website I don’t entirely trust, I don’t know what that means in terms of evidence. Are there written procedures that explain those terms?

Emotions naturally run high on such a subject. But saying that “we don’t know” does not devalue survivors. No one on this Board knows who is or is not a survivor unless they self identify. It is not disregarding anything.

It is simply saying we don’t know.

ETA: which has more to do with the other thread concentrating on Safe Sport now that I think about it.

A very very heartbreaking situation all around:sad21:

rachno2 said:

I need to get this off my chest.

I know she is grieving, but this kind of statement reads as extremely insensitive to his accusers. There are ways of sending your condolences to his family and regretting that a horrible event like suicide took place without implying that his accusers are lying, or that he is the victim of injustice. The thing is, he had the option of due process, and for reasons unknown to us he chose not to see that due process through. Now his family and accusers may never have that closure.

It just makes me uncomfortable to see everybody gush about how nice/handsome/honest he is when we still do not know the whole story. A terribly sad thing happened, and his family deserves all the support and sympathy in the world. That is all I would say publicly without knowing the full extent of the accusations and their veracity.

My condolences to his family. I can’t imagine living through something like this.

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Good post! It's tragic on both sides. Totally a shock waking up to this news today.

hippomoomin said:

So he has been coaching after he quit competing? If so, then the suspension is on coaching, right?

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He was suspended from everything related to US figure skating.

“Temporary Suspension. Beginning on January 17, 2019, Responding Party John Coughlin is prohibited from participating, in any capacity, in any activity or competition authorized by, organized by, or under the auspices of the United States Olympic Committee, the national governing bodies recognized by the United States Olympic Committee, including U.S. Figure Skating, and/or a Local Affiliated Organization of a national governing body recognized by the United States Olympic Committee.

Pursuant to U.S. Figure Skating Bylaw Article XXV, Section 2, U.S. Figure Skating hereby suspends John Coughlin, beginning on January 17, 2019, pending final resolution of the matter by the U.S. Center for SafeSport.”

I always make the mistake of assuming that when someone gets involved in a debate with anything other than "What happened?", they had done their due dilligence. But we know what they say about assuming. Here's a few thoughts.

1. A lot of people out there are saying John never got his day in court. Your day in court comes once you have been charged. You are charged if there is sufficient evidence against you. That is why there was an investigation.
2. People reported on the fact there was an investigation going on. This is their right and, for some, duty.
3. John may have left a letter. Dalilah Sappenfield wrote in this FB post "Thank you for the letter you left me. I promise to you that your voice and truth will be heard."
4. I am here by no means comparing anyone to Nassar, but I will say that people have learned nothing from it. I say this after reading hundreds of posts from people saying goodbye to a beautiful soul, a wonderful man. People who knew John are positive that he "would never put a harmful hand on anyone, that is just simply not in his DNA" and similar. Parents, coaches, friends and athletes had been saying the very same about many abusers, including Larry Nassar, before the entire story came out.

So learn from the very recent past, be respectful of the Coughlin family, be reserved, be careful what you say or write, do not take sides until results have been published.

Also read this GS thread here and whatever you think about TSL, go listen to their most recent interview.



Here's Dalilah's entire post for those who are not on Facebook:
Yesterday I received the most numbing, devastating,and heartbreaking call!!!!!!!!! It has taken me all night to grasp and accept. My heart aches incredibly to know John took his life yesterday. His family, the skating community, and I lost a very special man who lived his life with integrity and kindness. We definitely lost one of the good guys. John was my student, like one of my own children, was an amazing ambassador for our sport, a selfless man, and a great role model. He was driven to help our sport grow, especially in pairs. The John I knew was a big loving teddy bear with an infectious laugh. It was so very difficult for him and all those who loved him to see his name and reputation being dragged through the mud these past few weeks, without any due process. We spoke everyday just numb and shocked about how things were being misconstrued on social media. It was so very sad and tragic for me to see his life turned upside down in a matter of weeks, to the point where he felt alone, lost, and desperate that he no longer had it in him to fight. I hope that this serves as an example to everyone reading social media that not everything is as what it seems and that EVERYONE deserves due process before passing judgement. I’ve known John for 20 plus years. John would never put a harmful hand on anyone, that is just simply not in his DNA.

To those who have been “reporting” on social media. I’m sure you will receive a lot of likes for what I’m about to say. SHAME ON YOU for your insensitive and ignorant postings without knowing all the facts! You speak of transparency, well here’s one for you. As Americans, it’s our civil right to be innocent until proven guilty! John NEVER got to exercise that right before losing everything, including his life.

John, you will forever be in my heart. I’m so very sorry that you felt you had nothing left in you to fight for. I wish we could have done more to help you . You had so much to live for and so much to give. I hope you know how many people admired and loved you!!! Thank you for the letter you left me. I promise to you that your voice and truth will be heard. I will miss you dearly mijo!!!! May God bless your soul “Love always” De

I understand that Delilah is grieving, but that post is downright shameful.

Imagine being one of John’s accusers and reading that post - being made to feel as though reporting him for abuse has made you responsible for his death? Or being an abuse victim of someone else, either in the sport or out of it, and now being afraid to report it because what if your abuser takes their own life? Delilah is trying to silence these people.

If I was a parent of one of Delilah’s current students, I would seriously consider taking my child elsewhere.

If Delilah truly believes in his innocence, then I hope she uses her influence at USFS to ensure that a full and transparent investigation is completed despite the tragedy, in order to exonerate John and save his legacy. Make the effort instead of blaming those who reported the facts about the investigation.

I'm angry. Everybody should not have made a statement until the investigation was over.

Sappenfield is only annoyed by people who are full of prejudices without knowing the facts. That is understandable. And she is right with it’s our civil right to be innocent until proven guilty. I do not see anything shameful in her statement.

luckyguy said:

Sappenfield is only annoyed by people who are full of prejudices without knowing the facts. That is understandable. And she is right with it’s our civil right to be innocent until proven guilty. I do not see anything shameful in her statement.

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1000 likes for this!

twirlingblades said:

Definitely does not equal guilt, but after months (since October) of interviews, his status went from restricted to suspended. That’s pretty big.

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SafeSport needs to explain why they changed his status while protecting the accusers' privacy. There must be a reason. John died the day after.

luckyguy said:

Sappenfield is only annoyed by people who are full of prejudices without knowing the facts. That is understandable. And she is right with it’s our civil right to be innocent until proven guilty. I do not see anything shameful in her statement.

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In a court of law. This does not apply anywhere except in a court of law. This doesn’t apply to public opinion or positions of privilege or authority.

Due process is unfortunately slow, but it was taking place during the SafeSport investigation.

el henry said:

I honor everyone who is brave enough to tell their story and to share.

But, as someone who has worked (tangentially) in this field, I cannot agree there is “overwhelming” evidence (as I understand overwhelming) of any “victims” as that term is commonly used. Perhaps it is a difference of terms?

Suspensions, restrictions: until I know more, from someone who actually works for SafeSport as an organization, and not a participant who appears to have an agenda on a website I don’t entirely trust, I don’t know what that means in terms of evidence. Are there written procedures that explain those terms?

Emotions naturally run high on such a subject. But saying that “we don’t know” does not devalue survivors. No one on this Board knows who is or is not a survivor unless they self identify. It is not disregarding anything.

It is simply saying we don’t know.

ETA: which has more to do with the other thread concentrating on Safe Sport now that I think about it.

A very very heartbreaking situation all around:sad21:

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Maybe we need Safe Posting? Sorry. I appreciate the freedom of thoughts and discussion. This is a sad situation for everyone. John, his family and friends, the accuser(s), the other skating and Safesport parties etc. At this point who knows what happened, the strength of the case and for that mattter what abuse is alleged. Even if an Accused is exhonerated that sometimes mean the case couldn't be proven by whatever legal standard is set. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are other times when the allegation was totally made up and not a shred of truth. I tell complainants of crimes sometimes an acquittal doesn't mean it didn't happen or i don't believe you but rather it is what the judge/court/governing body found on the admissible evidence. Admissible is sometimes key. But in the end no matter what you just have to hope for some peace for all. I can tell reading-the posts this is a touchy subject. A side comment I note many have had opinions of Dave Lease and TSL and their recent post/interview. lots of criticisms and support for Dave's work. I think part of the problem TSL/Lease has is that his or its credibiliity is suspect because of the many campy / gossipy comments. So as a journalist his or The Skating Lesson's reputation or credibility is suspect or weakened. There have been lots of issues or comments about the suicide and almost blame or fault. Can we put that aside and accept this is sad and tragic and no matteer your faith or positon hope, wish, pray whatever for healing.

andromache said:

I understand that Delilah is grieving, but that post is downright shameful.

Imagine being one of John’s accusers and reading that post - being made to feel as though reporting him for abuse has made you responsible for his death? Or being an abuse victim of someone else, either in the sport or out of it, and now being afraid to report it because what if your abuser takes their own life? Delilah is trying to silence these people.

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When I read her comment (whether I agree with her or not aside) I 100% believe she was addressing people who were online and making presumptuous (in her opinion) statements that may have over reached the actual scope of the investigation. Whether she was incorrect or correct I can not say but I think she seems to be saying that online speculation in her opinion is what pushed John over the edge rather than saying the accusations were to blame. I don’t believe her intent (as I read it) was to lay blame on his accuser(s) for his suicide.

I don’t know what the truth is and what she knows of it but I do believe the spirit of her statement was directed at online speculation that she disagreed with rather than toward his accusers.

From her statement:

We spoke everyday just numb and shocked about how things were being misconstrued on social media. It was so very sad and tragic for me to see his life turned upside down in a matter of weeks, to the point where he felt alone, lost, and desperate that he no longer had it in him to fight.

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It’s hard to know because without knowing the actual facts at this point I can’t yet agree with her or not but that to me is a whole separate issue. YMMV.

luckyguy said:

Sappenfield is only annoyed by people who are full of prejudices without knowing the facts. That is understandable. And she is right with it’s our civil right to be innocent until proven guilty. I do not see anything shameful in her statement.

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Yet, Sappenfield seems to be assuming his innocence without knowing all the facts.