Another Olympic pairs controversy

Way back at the 1964 Winter Olympics, held in Innsbruck Austria, there was a pairs controversy, but this one did not involve the judges.

Ludmila and Oleg Protopopov won the gold medal with an outstanding long program of elegant, inventive moves.

The silver medal was won by defending World champions Marika Kilius and Hans Baumier of West Germany. After the Games it was discovered that this team had signed a professional skating contract prior to the Olympics, which made them "professional" skaters. In those days, skaters received next to nothing, financially, for their appearances.

Kilius and Baumier were stripped of their silver medal. The silver medal was then awarded to the bronze medalists, Debbi Wilkes and Guy Revell of Canada, and the bronze medal was awarded to the American brother/sister team of Ronald and Vivian Joseph, who had finished fourth.

However -- in 1984 this ruling was reversed, and the original order of finish remains on the books.

I wonder how the ISU contacted those pairs to instruct them to return their Olympic medals? :sheesh:

The life of athletes under the Soviet regime was one where they were only athletes - neither pro nor amateur. They were elitest under the Soviet system and received a full life at that time similar to West Germans who had to use earned money.

The Soviet concept of "the best" included all athletes pro or amateur by Western standards. This concept was finally accepted by the US Olympic Committee and the birth of the 'Dream Teams' came into being.

Kwan gained from this change since she loves to compete and yet earn money.

Joe

Joesitz said:

The life of athletes under the Soviet regime was one where they were only athletes - neither pro nor amateur. They were elitest under the Soviet system and received a full life at that time similar to West Germans who had to use earned money.

The Soviet concept of "the best" included all athletes pro or amateur by Western standards. This concept was finally accepted by the US Olympic Committee and the birth of the 'Dream Teams' came into being.

Kwan gained from this change since she loves to compete and yet earn money.

Joe

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Yes, we all realize that the Soviet Union and other Communist countries had its own interpretation of "amateur" athlete. Their top athletes received free training,
"privileges" such as housing, cars, expense money, etc., so that they could continue to train without having to hold down a typical factory job. They were "professionals" in that sense.

Skaters from western countries were supposed to conform with the OIympic ideal of "amateur" - just competing for the joy of the sport and not receiving any financial stipends while competing as an amateur.

The lines dividing "amateur" and "professional" became murky over the years.
Michelle Kwan would be considered a "professional" athlete by the standards of the 1950s and 1960s. I see no problem in allowing the skaters to make money while they're still competing for National, World, and Olympic medals. Why not?

SkateFan4Life said:

Way back at the 1964 Winter Olympics, held in Innsbruck Austria, there was a pairs controversy, but this one did not involve the judges.

Ludmila and Oleg Protopopov won the gold medal with an outstanding long program of elegant, inventive moves.

The silver medal was won by defending World champions Marika Kilius and Hans Baumier of West Germany. After the Games it was discovered that this team had signed a professional skating contract prior to the Olympics, which made them "professional" skaters. In those days, skaters received next to nothing, financially, for their appearances.

Kilius and Baumier were stripped of their silver medal. The silver medal was then awarded to the bronze medalists, Debbi Wilkes and Guy Revell of Canada, and the bronze medal was awarded to the American brother/sister team of Ronald and Vivian Joseph, who had finished fourth.

However -- in 1984 this ruling was reversed, and the original order of finish remains on the books.

I wonder how the ISU contacted those pairs to instruct them to return their Olympic medals? :sheesh:

Click to expand...

Actually, no skaters from any country in those times were allowed to accept any monies or gratuities for skating appearanes. Canada's Barbara Ann Scott had to return a yellow sports car she was awarded by her home town as it would ruin her amatuer standing.

Ladskater said:

Actually, no skaters from any country in those times were allowed to accept any monies or gratuities for skating appearanes. Canada's Barbara Ann Scott had to return a yellow sports car she was awarded by her home town as it would ruin her amatuer standing.

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Yes, except that amateur athletes from the Soviet block got perks such as better appartments, a right to purchase a car (which others would have years to wait for), a right to get provision from special distribution centers that had the delicacies pure mortals could only dream of, etc. In the CSK skating club for instance it was done by giving its members military ranks, and then give them pay and benefits appropriate to the rank. So, technically, the athletes got the perks not for being skaters but for being members of the military.

Also, the very fact they could go abroad meant a lot more opportunities. People could buy things abroad, sell them at home, and live very comfortably for it. That's why any proffession that involved traveling abroad (such as accompanying cargo ships) was very much thought after.

Bottom line, you absoluely cannot compare the meaning of "amateur athlete" in the West vs. in the Soviet block back in those days.

Ptichka said:

Bottom line, you absoluely cannot compare the meaning of "amateur athlete" in the West vs. in the Soviet block back in those days.

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Yes but I give the Soviets credit for untangling that amateur/professional knot that so many skaters in the West had to face. The Soviets made sense, if you want the best, then everyone should be included.

(The perks of being a Soviet skater is another matter.)

Joe

In reality the Soviet athletes were employees of the State. Their jobs were performing in competitions as representatives of the Soviet government. They did not have to have jobs separate from their skating, they were completely free to train 24x7, and they were remunerated for their successes. In short, they were professional athletes.

Skaters from non-Eastern bloc countries who did not happen to come from well-to-do families had to work at outside jobs to pay for their coaching, ice time, costumes and travel. They were part-time athletes, and if they achieved a high level of success, they were not permitted to make money from it while retaining their amateur status.

Katarina Witt was able to continue on to the 1988 Olympics after winning gold in 1984 because the East German government paid all her living expenses and then some. Western athletes typically had to turn pro upon winning an Olympic medal because the costs of maintaining their training were prohibitive.

Ladskater said:

Actually, no skaters from any country in those times were allowed to accept any monies or gratuities for skating appearanes. Canada's Barbara Ann Scott had to return a yellow sports car she was awarded by her home town as it would ruin her amatuer standing.

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Precisely. "Amateur" had a very strict interpretation during those days. The skaters who represented the Soviet Union and other Communist countries received training that was paid for by the State, along with some "privileges" such as higher-tier housing, a car, and a small stipend of money. However, even these athletes did not receive money from appearing in ice shows.

How things have changed!

euterpe said:

In reality the Soviet athletes were employees of the State. Their jobs were performing in competitions as representatives of the Soviet government. They did not have to have jobs separate from their skating, they were completely free to train 24x7, and they were remunerated for their successes. In short, they were professional athletes.

Skaters from non-Eastern bloc countries who did not happen to come from well-to-do families had to work at outside jobs to pay for their coaching, ice time, costumes and travel. They were part-time athletes, and if they achieved a high level of success, they were not permitted to make money from it while retaining their amateur status.

Katarina Witt was able to continue on to the 1988 Olympics after winning gold in 1984 because the East German government paid all her living expenses and then some. Western athletes typically had to turn pro upon winning an Olympic medal because the costs of maintaining their training were prohibitive.

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Remember Calla Urbanski and Rock Marval - the "Waitress and the Truck Driver"? They were the US National pairs champions in 1992 and 1993, and they represented the US at the 1992 Winter Olympics. They did not attract lucrative corporate or private sponsors, and as they did not come from wealthy families, they both worked to support their training - she as a waitress in a local diner, he as an owner of a trucking business. They were the blue-collar heroes of the figure skating world. Of course, had Calla and Rocky been the Soviet national champions, they would not have had to hold outside jobs to support their figure skating training expenses. :sheesh: