The Figure Skating War on Youtube

I couldn't find a thread about this great article about the mass deletion of figure skating videos on youtube so I may as well make one. It's a great read!

https://adivinesport.com/2019/03/15/a-shadow-on-the-sport/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


It's just incredibly sad to see so many videos absolutely gone. Especially as a fan from a country with absolutely no coverage on skating competitions, except Worlds which has a few programs broadcasted on a sports cable channel that I don't even have. Nice.

Youtube was absolutely vital for my interest in skating to grow, I would have no idea that it even existed as a sport if not for Youtube.

The ISU channel on the Junior Circuit is a great way to see how accessibility can impact the sport since the interest in the junior circuit benefited a lot from it. I don't know how viable is it to do the same with the senior circuit (probably it isn't at all), but there has to be a way out of it.

There's videos with 1+ million views, even +5 million views (!!) that are gone forever. They were one of the biggests forces (if not the the biggest) attracting new fans. Not the mention the videos from not very well known skaters that end up with no record of their appearance on a competitions whatsoever unless for snippets on twitter if they're lucky. Especially since there isn't a big interest to upload their programs onto other video platforms like dailymotion/vimeo/google drive etc as there is with famous skaters.

It just isn't sustainable. People today don't watch figure skating on TV anymore. Deleting videos won't change that, it's part of a generational shift.

ISU and Broadcasting channels are shooting themselves on their foot in the long term by doing it since it only decreases future interest in the sport.

What are your thoughts?

It is all about broadcasting rights, who paid for what, and who owns what as a result of these negotiations.

All of the copies, cuts and clips made by fans using 'official source material' are illegal. Some governing bodies and rights holders are more fervent in hunting and deleting illegally shared content they own the rights to than others.

Sometimes even your own fan camera clips shot from the stands are considered illegal if the host organisation has secured exclusive media rights to their events.

Often there is also a legal consideration such as protecting pre-teen children from unwanted exposure.

Edwin said:

It is all about broadcasting rights, who owns what.

All of the copies, cuts and clips made by fans using 'official source material' are illegal. Some governing bodies and rights holders are more fervent in hunting and deleting illegally shared content they own the rights to than others.

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I'm aware of that, it has always been this way. But the mass deletion as it is now started since Worlds 2018, previously it was only that bad for videos from the Olympics. Now they are cutting down the GP series as if it were the Olympics. It wasn't nearly as bad as it is now before. What changed? Since popularity increased with Pyeongchang maybe they decided to come in full force? Probably. (even if popularity increased in a similar way after Sochi and it still didn't degenerate this phenomenon...) But the point is that this isn't sustainable at all. And it seems that is it being done without much thought behind it. For example, what do they gain from deleting videos from skaters from the 1st group that they won't even show on their broadcast? It may work with sports that have a bigger following. Or even team sports where only a small group of people will even rewatch 1h long matches. But figure skating is a performance based sport and especially a niche sport. In my opinion, It will hurt a ton from these rules. Broadcasting channels probably have similar contracts to show other sports still you can easily find videos from them on youtube. Look at gymnastics! There's offical youtube channels out there uploading all the routines. There has to be an alternative.

I'm speaking only as a fan with no deep acknowledge about the legal matters, and this is the impression I have. I will be all ears if someone can give me a full on explanation on the legal matters and especially the possible reasoning of why they decided to reinforce it. But even if I could understand it, as a fan I can't agree with it. It makes no sense, since it will only cut down the interest in the long run and bring less revenue. I believe other fans can sympathize with it.

I prefer the jpop method where rather than delete a video they just block it in the markets where they have exclusive rights.

I could definitely support old competitions being placed online for prosperity but ultimately these videos on YouTube are a significant financial loss in the eyes of the rights holders.

Eurovision TV is ment to bridge the gap and show competitions in areas where there are no rights holders but the biggest issue is the way sports are sold off to channels. With exclusive contracts ment to bleed everyone dry in paying ridiculous amounts to buy Sky Sports or whatever.

Ultimately sports are seen as live events where the idea of giving people access to replays is rare. I’m not sure what we can do about that. But I don’t blame Eurosport, for example, for taking down videos to which they hold rights. Us as fans need to make our case the the ISU about archives or non exclusive rights where they can upload competitions as well as allowing TV channels to air them. But that will mean less money.

DSQ said:

I prefer the jpop method where rather than delete a video they just block it in the markets where they have exclusive rights.

I could definitely support old competitions being placed online for prosperity but ultimately these videos on YouTube are a significant financial loss in the eyes of the rights holders.

Eurovision TV is ment to bridge the gap and show competitions in areas where there are no rights holders but the biggest issue is the way sports are sold off to channels. With exclusive contracts ment to bleed everyone dry in paying ridiculous amounts to buy Sky Sports or whatever.

Ultimately sports are seen as live events where the idea of giving people access to replays is rare. I’m not sure what we can do about that. But I don’t blame Eurosport, for example, for taking down videos to which they hold rights. Us as fans need to make our case the the ISU about archives or non exclusive rights where they can upload competitions as well as allowing TV channels to air them. But that will mean less money.

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My only advice with online media is, download to your computer and private archives ASAP for it is "here today, gone tomorrow" in the volatile online world.

Irony! I am struck by the fact that youtube figure skating videos are taken down so quickly. And yet today I read in my paper that the New Zealand killer was able to livestream his acts of hatred on youtube and Facebook and they were not taken down for hours.

Scrufflet said:

Irony! I am struck by the fact that youtube figure skating videos are taken down so quickly. And yet today I read in my paper that the New Zealand killer was able to livestream his acts of hatred on youtube and Facebook and they were not taken down for hours.

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So very true. Youtube and the other social media platforms are more concerned over being sued by the US music and entertainment industry for copyright infringements than public conscience or the protection of children and young teens from perverts etc.

Edwin said:

My only advice with online media is, download to your computer and private archives ASAP for it is "here today, gone tomorrow" in the volatile online world.

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So true. You can get DVR’s that don’t encrypt your recordings too. Set it up before you leave the house and you’ll have everything.

DSQ said:

So true. You can get DVR’s that don’t encrypt your recordings too. Set it up before you leave the house and you’ll have everything.

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I recently changed my cable TV subscription to the one that keeps all the broadcasts for several days. What a relief! Now I can watch any competitions at my leisure. The only challenge is not to know the results to not spoil the whole experience.

ISU are the biggest bunch of dumb you know what’s. The sport is dying out, so let’s make sure one of the biggest(if not the biggest) ways that gets people interested in the sport is taken away! It’s not the 1950s. It’s 2019. Social media is king, not tv or broadcasts. You need to be able to have free access to your sport available to the public. And the “broadcasters rights” excuse really doesn’t make sense. what channel is still broadcasting Grand Prix’s from 2017?? The 5 million view video that was deleted was I believe Yuzu’s hope and legacy from worlds 2017...It’s two years old! Who’s losing money on a two year old 8 minute video on YouTube?! It’s infuriating honestly. They need go look and take tips from how the nba uses social media. I know it’s a way bigger and popular sport but clips are available on Instagram while a game is still happening. And I’ve never heard of them going back and deleting past games and clips on YouTube

evasorange said:

ISU are the biggest bunch of dumb you know what’s. The sport is dying out, so let’s make sure one of the biggest(if not the biggest) ways that gets people interested in the sport is taken away! It’s not the 1950s. It’s 2019. Social media is king, not tv or broadcasts. You need to be able to have free access to your sport available to the public. And the “broadcasters rights” excuse really doesn’t make sense. what channel is still broadcasting Grand Prix’s from 2017?? The 5 million view video that was deleted was I believe Yuzu’s hope and legacy from worlds 2017...It’s two years old! Who’s losing money on a two year old 8 minute video on YouTube?! It’s infuriating honestly. They need go look and take tips from how the nba uses social media. I know it’s a way bigger and popular sport but clips are available on Instagram while a game is still happening. And I’ve never heard of them going back and deleting past games and clips on YouTube ����

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Yes, they're not only deleting the videos from a recent competition, they're doing it left and right. They went on a deleting spree of older videos. It truly makes no sense in my understanding since the broadcasting channels ain't losing any money from competitions from 4, 5 years ago.

And it clearly isn't completely ilegal to make the content available on youtube for free. There's certainly a way out. There's full on tennis and football matches, gymnastics competitions and from other sports being uploaded on youtube with no problem. There's official channels that make it available. ISU really isn't thinking it through. What's making it difficult for them to get an alternative way? Is it not enough resources? Or just no interest whatsoever to make it happen? Because there's certainly enough demand.

Maybe broadcasting channels are reinforcing the rules since their viewership has been decreasing but it's such a shortsighed measure since it will only bring less exposure and less potential viewers for the channels. And the decreasing viewership is something inevitable. So it's not only shortsighed but also ineffective. ISU needs to reach a better agreement since they only have more money to lose if they keep on doing this.

it isn't only a matter of making it available for people that are already a fan of the sport like myself. I could always find a way to pay for that terrible cable channel or better, hope that they aren't already deleted when I get home from work and download from some obscure russian forum. I get that people will post here some ways to bypass that. But that's not the whole point. The biggest issue is making it available for anyone to become a new fan of the sport.

I don't think it's a generation problem either. Landlines and cable t.v. are being cut every day. It's very upsetting when these videos get cut. You may discover a skater that you never watched before and when you try to find past seasons they are gone. And I've discovered that I really enjoy the senior B competitions and if I don't watch them live, I can't ever watch them. And it is not possible to watch all programs live. And it's exciting when your favorite skater hits a million views, like Evgenia's sailor moon, and then it gets deleted.

My biggest problem with this deletion wave is the following:

1.
Deleted videos per se can be uploaded, re-uploaded and uploaded again and many of them will be. Fans can't be stopped from doing that, even if the clips will be taken down after a few weeks again and again. It's a never ending war between fans and rightholders.

The only things that will be ereased forever: the view numbers, the hundreds and thousands of comments and dozens of subtitles in multiple languages created by volunteers, who invested a lot of time and sweat to make broadcasts accessible and understandable all over the world (we have done ISU's job without payment for years). With the deletion of a video or channel a huge part the written history of the figure skating fandom is ereased forever with no back-up. I wouldn't know about the legendary Italian comments from Ambesi/Dolfini until today without those fanmade English subs on YouTube.

2.
I could accept the copyright rules and broadcasting rights, if the ISU offered any equal alternative to the fan channels on YouTube... but there is none except Ted Barton's Junior GP channel.

Eurovision Sports is a complete mess in my opinion, because:
a) They only offer full length +1:00:00 clips, where you have to search for ages, if you want to rewatch one specific program.
b) You cannot share links to a specific clip (not to mention a specific program), only the main page. So it's useless, if you want to introduce/promote a good program to someone.
c) You can't leave any comments and read impressions/opinions from others. So the clips will be conserved as dead material instead of living sport history.
d) Only die hard skating fans may discover this completely hidden video archive. ISU will never attract new fans with a channel, that nobody can easily stumble across.

If the ISU managed to create a counterpart of Ted's junior YT channel for seniors, too, I would happy. However, they have to reactivate the comment section. I know that some people write a lot of mess and hate, but there are many positive comments, too. They reflect the resonance and interest in the sport.

there needs to be a private login site for good quality skating vids only. i'd pay for that. and anonymity so the owners can't be sued

I don't understand why NBC doesn't do a figure skating channel as they have for World of Dance, where they upload contents almost immediately: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nbc+world+of+dance
In this way, they profit (I think) from the channel through the views (which is accessible for people who don't live in the US like me) and fans don't have any reason to steal the contents NBC has paid for. Plus, you can put comment which is a good way to have people interested and willing to interact.

If ISU had their own paid livestream/archive service, I bet most figure skating fans would happily pay for that. And also, ISU is resposible for speed skating as well as synchro, so that's more material and more fans.
They could even become literally an online channel, like the Olympic Channel for instance. They could stream old competitions when there aren't any competitions happening atm and they could also produce more material like interviews, analysis, etc.
I imagine that requires a lot of money but it's not like it's impossible. But ISU lacks willingness to evolve and to follow current trends and think of the future.

But anyway, this is asking to much, ISU barely does anything for figure skating on social media. Just look at how much the Olympic Channel twitter account has "exploited" Yuzuru's starpower as well as Yuna's and Evgenia's and so on, and then look at ISU's twitter account. They do nothing to share the sport.

The only thing they've done right is the JGP channel but that's not enough. And since money is always the issue, I actually think they should do something to monetize that channel. Alena's SP at the Vancouver GPF has over 130k views, that's a lot of views. The total of views on their channel is 50.839.595, again, that's a lot of views. They should be getting some money from that channel. And also, they should be putting commercial during breaks just like they do on TV.

Selling the rights to TV is downright stupid because TV's viewer ratings are less and less, especially younger people don't watch TV. There will always be illegal ways of watching competitions at real time and watching passed competitions. Why ISU doesn't make it easier for everyone instead of making it more difficult?

Sorry but this is ridiculous. Figure skating is a niche sport. Any views of programs are good for the sport overall. There's no market in rewatching old world championships. People barely watch the live events. Copyright is good and well in providing artists compensation but it is totally ridiculous in holding back progress in other ways. What value is added to the world by taking down skating videos? The vast majority of the money to be made is long gone and dependent on the ads they sold.

I am extremely grateful for all of the individuals of good will that continue to upload videos on YouTube. There's usually a moment during the week when I just need a pick me up and I watch several old programs.

There are like full official competition videos of USA Gymnastics on Youtube too, and I'm not sure why USFS can't do something similar for US figure skating. Other sports have managed the social media access transition I'm sure, so it's not like it's unheard of. Not to mention the growing success of the JGP channel. Argh!

I also loved how Universiade had Youtube streams and highlights for its FS, and it obviously paid off because like 4000 people were watching the ladies' FS! I hope more B-competitions can host and archive livestreams on Youtube. I also wish the official ISUstream could be duplicated on Youtube. Imagine the views if Worlds 2019 sans commentary was available

I will just echo what everyone else had said, that this is a short sighted, penny wise pound foolish move.

I came back to figure skating after scrolling through channels and seeing Jason's Riverdance at US Nats 2014. But since I was not following skating at the time, I was not taping it. (yes taping, never did DVR )

So although that one time entranced me, what really hooked me? Watching Riverdance over, and over, again on YouTube. In the days immediately after the skate. And finding figure skating online communities And other skaters I might enjoy.

This deletion of videos is not only beyond annoying, as a marketing move it makes no sense. Zero. Bupkes.

Sigh.....:disapp:

el henry said:

This deletion of videos is not only beyond annoying, as a marketing move it makes no sense.:

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Seriously. It's like a company taking down all the ads for their own product. That'll show 'em!

But who is 'em that they think they are showing? People who want to be their customers.