Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

kenboy123 · Mar 29, 2019

Ive always wondered if they are actually that good...none of their programs seem interesting to my amateur eyes...Virtue/Moir was their only competition and their programs are so much more interesting to my eyes...but back to the main topic, I dont see anyone challenging them for as long as they continue to be in the sport...but, assuming they do make it to Beijing...I think there will be someone to challenge them by then...but the next 2 seasons will just be snooze fests for ice dance

PS: who am I kidding???...Ice dancing is always a snooze fest...

theharleyquinn · Mar 29, 2019

All of the domestic competition between teams in the other big ice dance countries doesn't help either. Each fed needs to get behind one team, and the teams are too neck-and-neck for that to be a possibility.

oly2018 · Mar 29, 2019

theharleyquinn said:
All of the domestic competition between teams in the other big ice dance countries doesn't help either. Each fed needs to get behind one team, and the teams are too neck-and-neck for that to be a possibility.

This is a good point. The French benefit from a lack of internal competition. The US and Canada (more the US) have had super deep and competitive fields, where it is really hard to pick a clear favorite. Additionally, the internal competition puts a lot of pressure on teams like H/D and C/B to out do each other, not necessarily P/C. I also think most of the other top teams have too much political baggage because they have been around for so long. It's easy to point to a team like W/P and say they keep recycling their moves because they have just been out there for so long.

theharleyquinn · Mar 29, 2019

oly2018 said:
This is a good point. The French benefit from a lack of internal competition. The US and Canada (more the US) have had super deep and competitive fields, where it is really hard to pick a clear favorite. Additionally, the internal competition puts a lot of pressure on teams like H/D and C/B to out do each other, not necessarily P/C. I also think most of the other top teams have too much political baggage because they have been around for so long. It's easy to point to a team like W/P and say they keep recycling their moves because they have just been out there for so long.

Very much so. C/B at least have the coaching change going for them now, but they doubly suffered by also not doing the full season. You just can't build positive momentum in ice dance starting in January. They may have more of a fighting chance next season though, especially if they keep working on skating skills and speed.

I think it's possible for the gap to close with P/C in the next few seasons, since judges do begin punishing teams that stick around for too long. If S/K can firmly and consistently place themselves ahead of H/D next season and create more space from S/B, I see a path for them. They were much closer to P/C than I would've expected the silver medal team to be.

Mathman · Mar 29, 2019

theharleyquinn said:
All of the domestic competition between teams in the other big ice dance countries doesn't help either. Each fed needs to get behind one team, and the teams are too neck-and-neck for that to be a possibility.

I don't know. It could work the other way around, too. Sometimes competition helps an athlete get better. You could also say that there is "competition" within the Montreal coaching camp that could facilitate movement. Even Ice Dance isn't ALL just ISU politics and nationalistic lobbying.

oly2018 · Mar 29, 2019

Mathman said:
I don't know. It could work the other way around, too. Sometimes competition helps an athlete get better. You could also say that there is "competition" within the Montreal coaching camp that could facilitate movement. Even Ice Dance isn't ALL just ISU politics and nationalistic lobbying.

This may be true, but I think the Montreal camp has reached the extreme of that. It is impossible for anyone to remain 100% objective. Even if every team is getting the same coaching time, the coaches will naturally have a pecking order. Who do they believe is truly US 1 between C/B and H/D? Even if nobody purposely does anything to reveal what they think, it is natural that they look at one team as above the other. The question is, does that start to reflect in things like programs and choreography? If we are going to see people pushing towards P/C, I don't think it will be out of that camp, purely because they can't really throw they political support behind any one team. Ice Dance may not be 100% politics, but who your coaches are and who they believe in has made a difference all of these years. The US teams will be interesting to watch next year because the US hasn't been hesitant to keep their top teams neck and neck before.

Sorry for the long winded answer!

Skater Boy · Mar 30, 2019

oly2018 said:
This may be true, but I think the Montreal camp has reached the extreme of that. It is impossible for anyone to remain 100% objective. Even if every team is getting the same coaching time, the coaches will naturally have a pecking order. Who do they believe is truly US 1 between C/B and H/D? Even if nobody purposely does anything to reveal what they think, it is natural that they look at one team as above the other. The question is, does that start to reflect in things like programs and choreography? If we are going to see people pushing towards P/C, I don't think it will be out of that camp, purely because they can't really throw they political support behind any one team. Ice Dance may not be 100% politics, but who your coaches are and who they believe in has made a difference all of these years. The US teams will be interesting to watch next year because the US hasn't been hesitant to keep their top teams neck and neck before.

Sorry for the long winded answer!

I don't understand why top Canadians don't go with Orser and Dubreil and Lazon. Poor Weapo are goinig no where yet Marie France and Patrice keeptaking top American contenders meanwhile Canada struggles in great mediocrity.

Sam L · Mar 30, 2019

GGFan said:
I don't see anyone challenging them in terms of the complete package (skating skills, sophistication, lines, etc). However with figure skating politics anything can happen. We'll have to read the tea leaves in the coming years. If Vikita begins to cut into their lead I could see a great upset in 2022. It definitely won't be one of the North American teams.

That is a scenario that I would abhor but I always prepare myself for shenanigans in this sport. :dev2:

I really need to stock up on my tea in the lead up to Beijing.

russell30 · Mar 30, 2019

Well maybe next year! Virtue and Moir might return? for Montreal, stranger things have happened but I can say for Gaby and Guillaume the gold in Beijing should be there's.

Well Chock/Bates might be good under Marie-France and Patch, next two seasons might be key....

Hubbell/Donohue seem to be better! but they took a step back with Romeo and Juliet this year - they need out of the box material....

Lewis/Gibson looking forward to there development

Jammers · Mar 30, 2019

russell30 said:
Well maybe next year! Virtue and Moir might return? for Montreal, stranger things have happened but I can say for Gaby and Guillaume the gold in Beijing should be there's.

Well Chock/Bates might be good under Marie-France and Patch, next two seasons might be key....

Hubbell/Donohue seem to be better! but they took a step back with Romeo and Juliet this year - they need out of the box material....

Lewis/Gibson looking forward to there development

I don't see any of the older teams like W/P or C/B or even H/D challenging P/C to be honest. All three of those teams will be well into their 30's by 2022 except for Chock and she will be 29. Unless one of the young teams like C/P takes a giant leap almost overnight like P/C did in 2014/15 there just isn't any team at their level or who seem to have the potential to get at that level.

Seren · Mar 30, 2019

I don’t think so- not right now at least. P/C are just too good.

Casual · Mar 30, 2019

P/C are good, but a bit overhyped IMO.

H/D could be better, (if they didn't try to look like P/C this season- boring!).

Casual · Mar 30, 2019

As for Russians, sure, they can easily get any color medal including gold - but that will not make their skating on par with top teams.

cell · Mar 30, 2019

Casual said:
As for Russians, sure, they can easily get any color medal including gold - but that will not make their skating on par with top teams.

Um....Sinitsina/Katsalapov's skating is very good. They are definitely a top team skating wise...She improved so much.

rain · Mar 30, 2019

Casual said:
P/C are good, but a bit overhyped IMO.

H/D could be better, (if they didn't try to look like P/C this season- boring!).

P/C are a great team, no doubt. But I agree with you on the overhyped.

I don't think they're untouchable (in the skating sense. The political sense is a whole other ballgame), but teams are not going to beat them at their own game. The are superlative at what they do. That's why Virtue and Moir had the right idea and H/D had the right idea to try to follow in their footsteps this season, though they failed in the execution due to a poor choice of material. Instead of trying to out-soft-lyrical P/C, Virtue/Moir went for a complete contrast with a dramatic character piece. H/D's FD last year was similarly sensational and different.

It was really too bad that H/D went with the underwhelming Romeo and Juliet FD this season, which was a mismatch with their skating (and everyone and their dog was doing Romeo and Juliet). I found P/C's FD forgettable and a little boring this season, though well skated, with their signature smoothness, of course. But I think it could definitely have been challenged.

P/C are not versatile (even though the judges like to pretend in the short or rhythm dances that they are). This gives other teams an opening to bring something else to the table. But the other teams need to concentrate on their own strengths and thus provide the judges with a real alternative rather than just simply trying to imitate what P/C are doing, because they just end up looking like a pallid copy otherwise.

Eleanor · Mar 31, 2019

rain said:
P/C are a great team, no doubt. But I agree with you on the overhyped.

I don't think they're untouchable (in the skating sense. The political sense is a whole other ballgame), but teams are not going to beat them at their own game. The are superlative at what they do. That's why Virtue and Moir had the right idea and H/D had the right idea to try to follow in their footsteps this season, though they failed in the execution due to a poor choice of material. Instead of trying to out-soft-lyrical P/C, Virtue/Moir went for a complete contrast with a dramatic character piece. H/D's FD last year was similarly sensational and different.

It was really too bad that H/D went with the underwhelming Romeo and Juliet FD this season, which was a mismatch with their skating (and everyone and their dog was doing Romeo and Juliet). I found P/C's FD forgettable and a little boring this season, though well skated, with their signature smoothness, of course. But I think it could definitely have been challenged.

P/C are not versatile (even though the judges like to pretend in the short or rhythm dances that they are). This gives other teams an opening to bring something else to the table. But the other teams need to concentrate on their own strengths and thus provide the judges with a real alternative rather than just simply trying to imitate what P/C are doing, because they just end up looking like a pallid copy otherwise.

Genuine question. Why?
I keep reading that P/C are not versatile but noone really explains why or what makes a team versatile or not.

russell30 · Mar 31, 2019

Eleanor said:
Genuine question. Why?
I keep reading that P/C are not versatile but noone really explains why or what makes a team versatile or not.

I think most pundits believe they stick to a piece of music genre that suits there style and don't try other things! They are good at what they do but need to be versatile with other genres - that may come!! however...Would love to them skate to an 'Argentine Tango' maybe for there FD next year or a fast paced 'Flamenco/Bulerias ' theme, we will see!!

russell30 · Mar 31, 2019

cell said:
Um....Sinitsina/Katsalapov's skating is very good. They are definitely a top team skating wise...She improved so much.

Yes! Sinitsina and Katsalapov will be one to watch next year!! much improved! Nikita always gives it the max!

Lovechihuahua · Mar 31, 2019

I'll give you guys my words: Sofia Shevchenko / Igor Eremenko.

ancientpeas · Mar 31, 2019

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: No

The real question to me is who will do a disco-y program like Fear and Gibson or Piper and Paul and make me happy and want to tune in for the FS just to see them.

Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

kenboy123

theharleyquinn

oly2018

theharleyquinn

Mathman

oly2018

Skater Boy

Sam L

russell30

Jammers

Seren

Wakabond Forever

Casual

Casual

cell

rain

Eleanor

russell30

russell30

Lovechihuahua

Match Penalty

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

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