2019-2020 Programs by Discipline

SnowWhite · Jun 2, 2019

Ice Dance said:
Somehow I missed the confirmation on both GS and FSU that Hawayek & Baker's program to Saturday Night Fever is an RD but I see that it is listed as one now on both sites. Does someone have a link to where this was confirmed? (Or if it is on an instagram story, just let me know as I don't have an instagram account). Thanks!

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByBVx2jpRBS/
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByBV2fTJEIQ/

They didn't actually say in the posts that they'll be skating to it, but it seems pretty clear. Especially since Misato Komatsubara commented on Jean-Luc's post saying "Perfect choice".

ice coverage · Jun 2, 2019

Ice Dance said:
Somehow I missed the confirmation on both GS and FSU that Hawayek & Baker's program to Saturday Night Fever is an RD but I see that it is listed as one now on both sites. Does someone have a link to where this was confirmed? (Or if it is on an instagram story, just let me know as I don't have an instagram account). Thanks!

SnowWhite said:
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByBVx2jpRBS/
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByBV2fTJEIQ/

They didn't actually say in the posts that they'll be skating to it, but it seems pretty clear. Especially since Misato Komatsubara commented on Jean-Luc's post saying "Perfect choice".

Ice Dance, is your question about RD vs. FD? (Seems so to me.)

In other words: A question as to which program? Not a question as to whether H/B have chosen Saturday Night Fever for a program.

AFAIK, H/B have not posted something additional that actually specifies RD (as opposed to FD).

Although it would seem like a reasonable assumption that SNF would be an RD this season, I also can understand your caution before making any assumption.

Ice Dance · Jun 2, 2019

ice coverage said:
Ice Dance, is your question about RD vs. FD? (Seems so to me.)

In other words: A question as to which program?

Yes, that was my question. Are we sure it is an RD rather than an FD? When the news first came out, I just read that H&B had posted a picture on instagram (which is all I can see in my links above). At the time, it seemed like people weren't sure about whether it was an RD or an FD. I had thought previously that someone would choose Saturday Night Fever for an RD; but I hadn't seen confirmation that Hawayek & Baker had done so.

But yesterday, I realized that it had been added to both the program lists on FSU and GS as a rhythm dance. So then I wondered if I had missed a follow-up announcement. I can't read instagram stories so I didn't know if H&B had perhaps added further commentary somewhere. Saturday Night Fever does sound like it would be a likely RD selection, but I didn't know if that was what H&B had decided to use it for and/or if it had a piece that would meet the Finnstep requirements. We do seem to have a number of free dance programs that may have been originally researched for RDs and then may have been ultimately chosen as FDs when the ISU clarified its definition & rules for what qualified as a "musical." (A Star is Born, Lord of the Dance, and Bohemian Rhapsody are all FDs this season). Or perhaps, teams never considered using them for RDs but may have been drawn toward these programs during their research process. Or, of course, perhaps it's just a coincidence in some of these specific cases.

Anyway, it sounds like I should keep H&B's Saturday Night Fever in the either-an-RD-or-an-FD category of my brain until we hear more?

RemyRose · Jun 2, 2019

Yelim Kim
SP: "Black Swan," choreographed by Lee Kyu-hyun
FS: "Love Story" soundtrack by Francis Lai, choreographed by Jeffrey Buttle

Source: m.blog.daum.net/nsjon/126

elektra blue · Jun 2, 2019

dorispulaski said:
In honor of Memorial Day, some WW2 PROGRAMS of the past:

Delobel/Schoenfelder OD SEASON 2008-09. Andrews Sisters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gyniqWKsc0

Ryan Bradley instrumental) sp 2010-2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_-FiufTjd8

Samuelson & Bates Season 2008-2009 OD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGNTFc65l_s

thank you, doris! :luv17:

el henry said:
As I said upstream, I love Misha choreo, so I will give it a pass for now.

I have not see a lady skate to 16 tons.:shocked: I have only seen one man, I think Morisi? 16 Tons is a tune about an overworked manly man coal miner, sung originally by the inimitable Tennessee Ernie Ford in the most gravelly bass imaginable. ETA: From memory, so it might not be specific, but it’s close:

16 Tons (of coal)
And what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St. Peter don’t you call me cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to the company store
(American mining companies set up villages for the miners and sold on credit through the company store. Not to the miners’ benefit)

ETA: other lyrics even less applicable to the ladies:

If you see me comin, better step aside
A lot of men didn’t, a lot of men died,
One fist of iron, one fist of steel, if the right one don’t get you then the left one will.
Load 16 tons, and what do you get? [chorus]

Mixing that with a World War II sweetheart tune, this I have to see

bunnybarista said:
Omg that would be awesome! ETA: I just realized that's exactly what Delobel/Schoenfelder did in the video linked above by dorispulaski! And it was just as fun as one would imagine!

Also, agreeing with everyone else - what an odd pairing of 16 tons and Bei mir! Quite a juxtaposition.

ladies (or gentlemen :biggrin:

) i might have the solution. the first part is about our sweet girl before the war, then all men go to the front, women have to step in and take their jobs, even the hard ones, and if we can have a rosie the riveter why can't we have an alexia the coal miner? :biggrin:

Ice Dance · Jun 2, 2019

The problem with 16 Tons in skating, IMO, is that it was notably introduced to the skating world by Ilinykh & Katsalapov & their team without any regard for the actual tone or history of the song. And has continued to be used with the same disregard. Do I need it to be performed as a literal translation about a coal miner? Um, no. I do not think it became a hit because of this. But performing a song about a form of slavery as though one is having the time of one's life does not and has never worked for me in any of the skating versions of this piece that I have seen thus far. And throwing it together with Bei Mir Bistu Shein seems like yet another offshoot of this same faux pas.

Though, goodness knows, we'll give it a chance as we have no choice.

WeakAnkles · Jun 2, 2019

Ice Dance said:
The problem with 16 Tons in skating, IMO, is that it was notably introduced to the skating world by Ilinykh & Katsalapov & their team without any regard for the actual tone or history of the song. And has continued to be used with the same disregard. Do I need it to be performed as a literal translation about a coal miner? Um, no. I do not think it became a hit because of this. But performing a song about a form of slavery as though one is having the time of one's life does not and has never worked for me in any of the skating versions of this piece that I have seen thus far. And throwing it together with Bei Mir Bistu Shein seems like yet another offshoot of this same faux pas.

Though, goodness knows, we'll give it a chance as we have no choice.

Thank you. There are times when I think skaters, choreographers and coaches are either brain damaged, incredibly stupid or just downright callous.

Ice Dance · Jun 2, 2019

Or are perhaps from a different culture and speak a different language and do not realize the cultural significance of the song they are selecting? Or are just young and have coaches/choreographers that are from a different culture and speak a different language and do not realize the cultural significance of the song they are selecting?

Tavi... · Jun 2, 2019

Ice Dance said:
Or are perhaps from a different culture and speak a different language and do not realize the cultural significance of the song they are selecting? Or are just young and have coaches/choreographers that are from a different culture and speak a different language and do not realize the cultural significance of the song they are selecting?

But isn’t it the responsibility of the choreographer, at minimum, to know - or learn - that?

elektra blue · Jun 3, 2019

i wondered the same thing this year when i saw a russian junior men skating on Bella Ciao (a song of the italian Resistence). did he or his team know what was he skating on?

WeakAnkles · Jun 3, 2019

Ice Dance said:
Or are perhaps from a different culture and speak a different language and do not realize the cultural significance of the song they are selecting? Or are just young and have coaches/choreographers that are from a different culture and speak a different language and do not realize the cultural significance of the song they are selecting?

Davis and White still represent the high watermark for exploring dances from a different language and region and culture. And how did they do it? By seeking out people who are from that culture who taught them about the dance and its cultural significance and treating the dance and culture with respect. And with the internet, skaters and their support teams have NO EXCUSE not to do basic research like that.

TontoK · Jun 4, 2019

Ice Dance said:
The problem with 16 Tons in skating, IMO, is that it was notably introduced to the skating world by Ilinykh & Katsalapov & their team without any regard for the actual tone or history of the song. And has continued to be used with the same disregard. Do I need it to be performed as a literal translation about a coal miner? Um, no. I do not think it became a hit because of this. But performing a song about a form of slavery as though one is having the time of one's life does not and has never worked for me in any of the skating versions of this piece that I have seen thus far. And throwing it together with Bei Mir Bistu Shein seems like yet another offshoot of this same faux pas.

Though, goodness knows, we'll give it a chance as we have no choice.

I thought 16 Tons was about American coal miners. And, if we're getting deeply into cultural significance, they'd be really PO'd at their livelihood being referred to as a form of slavery.

I'm against intentionally disrespecting any group of people. I'm also against constantly being on the lookout for a reason to be offended.

For instance, taken to extremes, any form of folk dance is cultural appropriation unless performed only by individuals of that culture.

I'm not interested in a sport where only Americans can skate to jazz, only Austrians can perform waltzes, only Argentinians can skate a tango.

Or only West Virginians can skate to 16 Tons.

Ice Dance · Jun 4, 2019

TontoK said:
I thought 16 Tons was about American coal miners. And, if we're getting deeply into cultural significance, they'd be really PO'd at their livelihood being referred to as a form of slavery.

"According to Travis, the line "another day older and deeper in debt" from the chorus was a phrase often used by his father, a coal miner himself.[11] This and the line "I owe my soul to the company store" are a reference to the truck system and to debt bondage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage

"Debt bondage" also named "Debt slavery." (People were not paid. They were given "credit" at a company business aka the company store. Prices were high. Workers & families incurred debt to the company that would not pay them in cash and would not allow them to shop elsewhere. They were trapped, unable to leave and find work elsewhere. It happened in many walks of life and many industries. And it continues to happen today).

Per wikipedia, "Currently, debt bondage is the most common method of enslavement with an estimated 8.1 million people bonded to labour illegally as cited by the International Labour Organization in 2005."

TontoK · Jun 4, 2019

Ice Dance said:
"According to Travis, the line "another day older and deeper in debt" from the chorus was a phrase often used by his father, a coal miner himself.[11] This and the line "I owe my soul to the company store" are a reference to the truck system and to debt bondage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage

"Debt bondage" also named "Debt slavery." (People were not paid. They were given "credit" at the a company business aka the company store. Prices were high. Workers & families incurred debt to the company that would not pay them in cash and would not allow them to shop elsewhere. They were trapped, unable to leave and find work elsewhere. It happened in many walks of life and many industries. And it continues to happen today.

Per wikipedia, "Currently, debt bondage is the most common method of enslavement with an estimated 8.1 million people bonded to labour illegally as cited by the International Labour Organization in 2005."

That's nice.

According to TontoK, who lives in coal country in rural America, coal miners would definitely be offended at being referred to as slaves.

Ice Dance · Jun 4, 2019

TontoK said:
That's nice.

According to TontoK, who lives in coal country in rural America, coal miners would definitely be offended at being referred to as slaves.

I did not refer to anyone as slaves. I referred to the debt bondage system as a form of slavery. And the song resonated with many people beyond Kentucky and the coal mining industry, in part because the challenge these workers faced was also faced in many other parts of the country and in many other parts of the world.

Note: I did not draw the connection between this song and this terminology personally. I was already familiar with the significance of the "company store" reference, but I did not throw the term "slavery" casually into my post. I simply followed one significant link in the wikipedia entry for the song, 16 Tons, and it led directly to the terminology and second page I quoted above. This is probably a decent example of the challenge a researcher faces when bridging a culture gap--something I think is a very worthwhile endeaver and not at all as easy as some of the posts above imply. If I had not learned about the significance of the company store system while growing up, would I have known to hit the link for "debt bondage?" Would I have known it was a significant part of the song? How easy would that be to miss if you were reading something in a second language? And trying to sort through an encyclopedia entry with many links.

el henry · Jun 4, 2019

Maybe we’re conflating two different time periods?

The system by which many miners were “paid” in the 30s and 40s, and under which the song was written, was completely lopsided in the mine owner’s favor. Miners could not build up savings, miners could not get out of debt.

Not at all the same as today.

And having spent much of my working life enforcing mine safety, having been underground in both hard and soft coal mines, above ground in surface mines, prep plants, breakers, etc.etc. and having learned to discourse learnedly about topics such as air coming off the gob through the bleeder entry system, I feel rather proprietary about mining.

particularly for someone born and raised in the big city :laugh:

That said, Tennessee Ernie sings the song with a wink and snaps his fingers and is only mournful in the chorus. I can see why someone who doesn’t know the lyrics would be confused.

Tutto · Jun 4, 2019

buton said:
Mikhail Kolyada
SP: "Wind Of Change" by Scorpions

source:Mikhail's instagram

Old news I know and sorry for bringing this up again but I am curious whether any one before skated to this song?

denise3lz · Jun 5, 2019

Rika Hongo
SP: Kill Bill (same program from 2018-19)
FS: Ghost in the Shell (chore by Shae-Lynn Bourne)

source: https://soundcloud.com/user-983930015/no-23-rika-hongo

ruga · Jun 5, 2019

Maria Sotskova
SP: To Build A Home, choreo by Nikolai Morozov
FP: Fifty Shades of Grey, choreo by Nikita Mikhailov
Source: https://www.goldenskate.com/2019/06/maria-sotskova-2/

RemyRose · Jun 5, 2019

ruga said:
Maria Sotskova
SP: To Build A Home, choreo by Nikolai Morozov
FP: Fifty Shades of Grey, choreo by Nikita Mikhailov
Source: https://www.goldenskate.com/2019/06/maria-sotskova-2/

We shall see. Not a fan of either of those music choices.

2019-2020 Programs by Discipline

SnowWhite

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

Ice Dance

RemyRose

YOLO

elektra blue

mother of skaters

Ice Dance

WeakAnkles

Ice Dance

Tavi...

elektra blue

mother of skaters

WeakAnkles

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Ice Dance

TontoK

Hot Tonto

Ice Dance

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Tutto

denise3lz

ruga

RemyRose

YOLO

Similar threads

Connect with us