2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

moriel · Jul 19, 2019

Scott512 said:
I just think some of the girls should train outside Russia for convenience for being the number one girl in their own stable. Nastya could be that outside of Russia. I am two years Eteri may have twice as many great skaters as she does now. Where are they all going to go? Some will go elsewhere in or out of Russia and Evgenia has paved the way. I know money is an issue but most of these skaters and their families know people who are wealthy. If I had money and by that I mean Millions and I only have thousands like most people I would want to support or contribute to support of some talented kid and give them a chance to become the best they can be.

Russian millionaire, if anything, would fund their training in Russia, as in fact some of them do. Quite a few girls that do not make the national team receive support from sponsors - because most of the government funding goes to the ones in the main team or reserve, really. Everybody else must pay for quite a few stuff from their own pocket.

Keep in mind that patriotism is fashionable in Russia, and we have the best ladies coach in the world, so it sort of wouldnt make sense for some rich person to risk reputation losses just to send someone abroad with unknown result. And put unknown on that result: Russian coaching style is much different from the western one, as it has been said multiple times across multiple interviews. There is no guarantee that a russian skater will quickly (or at all) adapt to the western style, even a top skater, because it requires a whole different mindset.

Honestly, the only way any of those B/C girls would go train abroad is if there is a millionaire, but not a Russian one. Kind of Kurakova style, where a polish sponsor sort of "bought" a good skater to represent Poland and funds her training.

Sugar Coated · Jul 19, 2019

Elucidus said:
They say Gubanova and Nugumanova moved to Rukavitsin.

No, it's not. Just read Tsurskaya's interview - she said that she lost interest to fs from early age - and did fs only to please parents. It's impossible for any coach to develope skater with lack of motivation.

As for Gubanova's interview - there are enough contradictive lines to hint that she wasn't sincere about many things or tried to downplay it (at least it's obvious if you read it in Russian). I am even willing to say that highly likely majority of fault for such abrupt parting with coach lies on Gubanova. To be more precise - probably there was serious conflict between them (judging by some of her personal streams - Gubanova has rather.. difficult character) and serious discipline and weight problems.

There's no reason ever for a coach to bash a teenage girl. If their was conflict, the classy thing to do is say something to the effect of, "we have decided to end our coaching relationship." She could even hint at the reasons if the skater was at fault saying something like, "the skater was not prepared for this upcoming season and it was decided that she would be better suited to a different coaching team if she chooses to continue skating. We wish her all the best." That's vague enough to get the message across without being overly negative toward a teen. If I understand the translation correctly, then it is completely inappropriate to bring media attention to a teenage girl's weight.

vesperalvioletta · Jul 19, 2019

Scott512 said:
What do you know about this coach?

Very strong comments about Anastasia. Nastya said only good things about her former coach after her former coach trashed her worldwide. Who knows maybe getting expelled from cska is the kick in the butt that Nastya needs. But to use speculation of Nastya having serious discipline problems as fact is dubious. Both coach and pupil get blamed for the parting. Buyanova had even worse success with Masha Elena and Polina than she did with Nastya. As for her weight problems that you mentioned I can't see it. Yes she has developed and has some muscle and figure but she's hardly big. She may not even way 100 pounds. Nastya no doubt has to get used to her new body now that she's done or almost done with puberty. I hope this new coach works for her. It may be now or never for her. and every other country she would have more years to develop but in Russia if you don't improve quickly as a senior you get passed by.

Also you mention Nastya as having difficult character in some of her streams. If you're talkin about YouTube videos and things we must be watching two different things. I see a sweet girl on those videos. But I gather you see something else. So be it. What do you see in her? A diva? Her Instagram page seems very normal to me but I'm not in tune with all the social media stuff.

Anastasia was really good between ages 10 and 14. And the next couple years she has struggled to fulfill her promise and her ego is probably taking a beating. She has to deal with that and overcome it. But let's be honest this is sports and this is life. We've all had to overcome things at one time or another. But it must be extra hard for teenagers who aren't fully mature yet.

I hope her new coaching situation works wonders for her. Her confidence probably needs to be rebuilt. Obviously her previous coach wasn't the one to help Anastasia a lot and that's an understatement.

Rukavitsin is Dmitri Aliev and Alena Leonova's coach. He doesn't have a big camp right now and he hasn't had a "top" lady since Fedichkina left. He's helped Leonova gain consistency, but I get the impression that he isn't the best coach for ladies struggling with puberty-related jump issues. Not saying that's Nastya's problem, but we'll see what he can do for her if he's truly her new coach.

Scott512 · Jul 19, 2019

moriel said:
Russian millionaire, if anything, would fund their training in Russia, as in fact some of them do. Quite a few girls that do not make the national team receive support from sponsors - because most of the government funding goes to the ones in the main team or reserve, really. Everybody else must pay for quite a few stuff from their own pocket.

Keep in mind that patriotism is fashionable in Russia, and we have the best ladies coach in the world, so it sort of wouldnt make sense for some rich person to risk reputation losses just to send someone abroad with unknown result. And put unknown on that result: Russian coaching style is much different from the western one, as it has been said multiple times across multiple interviews. There is no guarantee that a russian skater will quickly (or at all) adapt to the western style, even a top skater, because it requires a whole different mindset.

Honestly, the only way any of those B/C girls would go train abroad is if there is a millionaire, but not a Russian one. Kind of Kurakova style, where a polish sponsor sort of "bought" a good skater to represent Poland and funds her training.

I think we are going to see more B and Cs going abroad if the money is there to pay for funding. But that is a big if and very rare at this point.

No doubt being trained Russian may cause problems being trained by a western coach.

Scott512 · Jul 19, 2019

vesperalvioletta said:
Rukavitsin is Dmitri Aliev and Alena Leonova's coach. He doesn't have a big camp right now and he hasn't had a "top" lady since Fedichkina left. He's helped Leonova gain consistency, but I get the impression that he isn't the best coach for ladies struggling with puberty-related jump issues. Not saying that's Nastya's problem, but we'll see what he can do for her if he's truly her new coach.

We shall see. I think I like the idea of Nastya working with a man this time as all the coaches I remember for her since I have followed her for 3 years have been women. This coach did well with Leanova and Nastya can probably learn alot from her. She i so much older than Nastya is and no doubt wiser too thanks to experience. Jeanie says he is a coach who helps with artistry and thats Gubanovas strength. I am hoping Nastya is done with puberty soon if not already.

Scott512 · Jul 19, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
There's no reason ever for a coach to bash a teenage girl. If their was conflict, the classy thing to do is say something to the effect of, "we have decided to end our coaching relationship." She could even hint at the reasons if the skater was at fault saying something like, "the skater was not prepared for this upcoming season and it was decided that she would be better suited to a different coaching team if she chooses to continue skating. We wish her all the best." That's vague enough to get the message across without being overly negative toward a teen. If I understand the translation correctly, then it is completely inappropriate to bring media attention to a teenage girl's weight.

Thats what should have have Sugar. That would have been a perfect and still professional parting of the ways between Buyanova and Nastya. But the coach frankly didn't care so she said what she wanted and was unnecessarily harsh on a devastated and recently expelled 16 year old girl. We see it that way. But not everyone else does Sugar. I have noticed Buyanaova, Plushenko and Eteri sometimes being too harsh when discussing former pupils. How do you think Gubanovas parents feel about the coach they left their daughter with said these things about her and intimated she has a weight problem to go along with an attitude problem? I am sure they were mortified to read Buyanovas comments. My hope for Nastya is that she is happy and skates beautifully this season in the events she gets. I dont care about her placements now its time for her to save her career and still show the world her wonderful skills and artistry. I am just hoping Buaynova didnt permanently damage Nastya the way she may have done with Masha Elena and Polina.

Elana · Jul 19, 2019

tempo said:
Big interview of Anastasia Tarakanova in Emma Gajieva's "Figurka":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx-PtA3qBOg

Would anybody be able to note the main points or anything worth knowing from this interview for those who don't speak Russian?

Sugar Coated · Jul 19, 2019

Scott512 said:
Thats what should have have Sugar. That would have been a perfect and still professional parting of the ways between Buyanova and Nastya. But the coach frankly didn't care so she said what she wanted and was unnecessarily harsh on a devastated and recently expelled 16 year old girl. We see it that way. But not everyone else does Sugar. I have noticed Buyanaova, Plushenko and Eteri sometimes being too harsh when discussing former pupils. How do you think Gubanovas parents feel about the coach they left their daughter with said these things about her and intimated she has a weight problem to go along with an attitude problem? I am sure they were mortified to read Buyanovas comments. My hope for Nastya is that she is happy and skates beautifully this season in the events she gets. I dont care about her placements now its time for her to save her career and still show the world her wonderful skills and artistry. I am just hoping Buaynova didnt permanently damage Nastya the way she may have done with Masha Elena and Polina.

It seems like this is just how the coaches in Russia respond? Maybe its a cultural thing I'm missing? Its not about any one coach being worse than another, but that several top coaches seem to think its okay to say really negative things about their teen students when they leave. Like its hard for me to believe that ALL these girls had major diva attitude problems and were impossible to work with, especially since they are technically still children.

Teens are moody, they sometimes rebel, their motivation may not always be consistent or they are thinking of focusing on other normal teenage things (friends, school, relationships, etc). Sometimes they are figuring out if they really want to keep skating or if they are doing it for parental pressure and are just confused. That doesn't make them a diva or having a "bad" attitude. They are still learning and growing. They don't need to be labelled to the entire world as having attitude problems because they may have been behaving in ways that most teens do at some point in their lives or are questioning their goals/priorities. Help them become more mature, help them figure out if they really want to keep skating, that's their job as a coach and if its not something that they can work through then just say "our coaching relationship is not working" or "the skater was no longer able to demonstrate the necessary commitment to training we require and we decided would be better off with another team." Because not everyone wants to or can commit to the level of training needed but that doesn't mean they have attitude problems.

And don't get me started about the weight. If I was 16 and my coach made comments like this to the media, I'd feel like the whole world now thinks I'm too fat. That's just like begging for a teenager to get an eating disorder.

Scott512 · Jul 19, 2019

Sugar Coated said:
It seems like this is just how the coaches in Russia respond? Maybe its a cultural thing I'm missing? Its not about any one coach being worse than another, but that several top coaches seem to think its okay to say really negative things about their teen students when they leave. Like its hard for me to believe that ALL these girls had major diva attitude problems and were impossible to work with, especially since they are technically still children.

Teens are moody, they sometimes rebel, their motivation may not always be consistent or they are thinking of focusing on other normal teenage things (friends, school, relationships, etc). Sometimes they are figuring out if they really want to keep skating or if they are doing it for parental pressure and are just confused. That doesn't make them a diva or having a "bad" attitude. They are still learning and growing. They don't need to be labelled to the entire world as having attitude problems because they may have been behaving in ways that most teens do at some point in their lives or are questioning their goals/priorities. Help them become more mature, help them figure out if they really want to keep skating, that's their job as a coach and if its not something that they can work through then just say "our coaching relationship is not working" or "the skater was no longer able to demonstrate the necessary commitment to training we require and we decided would be better off with another team." Because not everyone wants to or can commit to the level of training needed but that doesn't mean they have attitude problems.

And don't get me started about the weight. If I was 16 and my coach made comments like this to the media, I'd feel like the whole world now thinks I'm too fat. That's just like begging for a teenager to get an eating disorder.

I think it may partly be a cultural thing.

Remember Plushenko an all-time great in figure skating put his five-year-old son in a closet for punishment after a bad practice. Most people were aghast at that. But that may be cultural differences too. Doing that would not be well received in America.

Yes teenagers are moody and rebellious and a prodigy like Anastasia probably has her moments too. But it's like her former coach who is 3 1/2 times her age never even dealt with a teenager before. Lol.

Vandevska · Jul 20, 2019

Scott512 said:
I think it may partly be a cultural thing.

Remember Plushenko an all-time great in figure skating put his five-year-old son in a closet for punishment after a bad practice.

I don't understand in what world would this be appropriate :S
This is the first time I'm hearing about this and I'm beyond disgusted :S

Arbitrary · Jul 20, 2019

Pets of the Supreme Witch of the Crystal Dome calculate their average weight:

https://m.vk.com/photo-97272391_457286808?rev=1&post=-97272391_169936

- Who is that fat?
- Not me!!!

Mawwerg · Jul 20, 2019

There are rumors Nugumanova left Turenko.

colormyworld240 · Jul 20, 2019

Fluture said:
And when exactly? Elena was too young in 2014 as far as I remember. 2018? Over Alina and Zhenya? I don‘t think so. And I doubt the judges would have let a third Russian reach the podium, besides, as much as I love Elena‘s enthusiasm for her skating, Osmond is much more of the complete package. Let‘s be fair, Eteri is not a magician either. Elena was struggling with puberty and growing. She would have had the same issues with Eteri. Maybe she would have been more successful with her, maybe not. Who knows. But to say that she would have reached an Olympic medal “at least“ is a bit of an exaggeration, imo.

Is it that hard to believe? There was a time when Elena was a better skater than Alina and Evgenia. In the hypothetical situation, maybe she would've even taken one of their places at the Olympics. Who knows. Elena has stable technique and good spins, but after a while she stagnated while others progressed. Then she had consistency issues. She may not be 15, but she also would've had a lot of time to get used to her post puberty body. In a world where Alina can be OC just two years after she was only 9th at junior nationals, we don't know how it would've played out!

Scott512 · Jul 20, 2019

colormyworld240 said:
Is it that hard to believe? There was a time when Elena was a better skater than Alina and Evgenia. In the hypothetical situation, maybe she would've even taken one of their places at the Olympics. Who knows. Elena has stable technique and good spins, but after a while she stagnated while others progressed. Then she had consistency issues. She may not be 15, but she also would've had a lot of time to get used to her post puberty body. In a world where Alina can be OC just two years after she was only 9th at junior nationals, we don't know how it would've played out!

Alina was 9th at Junior Nationals? I didn't know or forgot that. Like the saying goes she's come a long way baby.

Wow.

After Adelina Liza and Yulia Elena was supposed to be the next big one. I think she was very good for several years. She fought through puberty and battled and won a worlds medal. Now Nastya has to go through puberty and find her form again as a senior.

Tolstoj · Jul 20, 2019

Scott512 said:
What do you know about this coach?

He's the most unlucky coach ever, but i like to say that at some point you need to wave your hands to make sure luck can see you.

I remember in 2015-16 he had arguargbly the most talented junior girl and boy (Fedichkina and Aliev) and even with that material they couldn't win a gold medal between Junior GPF or Junior Worlds: Fedichkina was a bit robbed at JGPF and finished fourth, she had to WD the free skate at Junior Worlds while Aliev bombed his free skate.

Artistically i like most of Glinka/Molotov's programs, they worked well with Dmitri Aliev so far, they can do wonders with Nugumanova and Gubanova.

Spins are a weakness for most of their skaters.

Their jumping technique is also weird, which is probably why all their students are a bit inconsistent: i remember with Menshov (especially his 3A), but also Dima Aliev on certain jumps, Sima Sakhanovich when she was there, Leonova,... they all have this wide free leg, i think you lose momentum in the air that way.

That said it's a good team based in SPB, i want to see what they can do with more skaters.

flanker · Jul 20, 2019

Scott512 said:
Alina was 9th at Junior Nationals? I didn't know or forgot that. Like the saying goes she's come a long way baby. Wow.

After Adelina Liza and Yulia Elena was supposed to be the next big one. I think she was very good for several years. She fought through puberty and battled and won a worlds medal. Now Nastya has to go through puberty and find her form again as a senior.

Yes. There was time when girls like Anna Tarusina etc., all those we don't know what their future will be, were more consistent, stable, had harder content than Alina. So, when somebody starts talking about that Eteri is succesful "just because she chooses the best" or that "all the work was done by previous coaches", he proves he either knows nothing or just denies the reality. It was hard work on both sides, Alina's and Eteri's, to make Alina the best russian lady.

In the case of Elena, nobody has crystal sphere in his bag, but definitely she would have pretty big chance to stay on top in Sambo.

Scott512 · Jul 20, 2019

Mawwerg said:
There are rumors Nugumanova left Turenko.

Remyrose wrote in Gubanovas thread that Nugumanva and Gubanova who are good friends are possibly reuniting together with a new coach. I hope so. They probably need each other again and a new voice to listen too. I am glad Nastya is getting a male coach this time and he is artisitc as well. It could make a nice combintion, She needs a coach to play up her strengths and who can improve her weaknesses. Buyaanova the butcher couldnt do it and the coach turned out to be the bitter one not Nastya who stayed classy. I was always dubious about Nastya going to Elena B because I feared she wants athletes more than artists. I think that played out in the end.

Scott512 · Jul 20, 2019

Tolstoj said:
He's the most unlucky coach ever, but i like to say that at some point you need to wave your hands to make sure luck can see you.

I remember in 2015-16 he had arguargbly the most talented junior girl and boy (Fedichkina and Aliev) and even with that material they couldn't win a gold medal between Junior GPF or Junior Worlds: Fedichkina was a bit robbed at JGPF and finished fourth, she had to WD the free skate at Junior Worlds while Aliev bombed his free skate.

Artistically i like most of Glinka/Molotov's programs, they worked well with Dmitri Aliev so far, they can do wonders with Nugumanova and Gubanova.

Spins are a weakness for most of their skaters.

Their jumping technique is also weird, which is probably why all their students are a bit inconsistent: i remember with Menshov (especially his 3A), but also Dima Aliev on certain jumps, Sima Sakhanovich when she was there, Leonova,... they all have this wide free leg, i think you lose momentum in the air that way.

That said it's a good team based in SPB, i want to see what they can do with more skaters.

Thanks. It sounds like a promising coaching move. Atleast artistically and with choreo. Remember that hideous brown and orange dress Buyanova had Nastya wear at the beginning of last season?

Scott512 · Jul 20, 2019

flanker said:
Yes. There was time when girls like Anna Tarusina etc., all those we don't know what their future will be, were more consistent, stable, had harder content than Alina. So, when somebody starts talking about that Eteri is succesful "just because she chooses the best" or that "all the work was done by previous coaches", he proves he either knows nothing or just denies the reality. It was hard work on both sides, alina's and Eteri's, to make Alina the best russian lady.

In the case of Elena, nobody has crystal sphere in his bag, but definitely she would have pretty big chance to stay on top in Sambo.

True.EG has developed all her top skaters and brought them to their highest level. She would have helped Elena too. But it never happened. I sort of wish Eteri had gotten Gubanova a couple years ago. EG make a difference. Yes EG is a tough cookie but the results are there and then some.

Payako · Jul 20, 2019

Elucidus said:
They say Gubanova and Nugumanova moved to Rukavitsin.

No, it's not. Just read Tsurskaya's interview - she said that she lost interest to fs from early age - and did fs only to please parents. It's impossible for any coach to develope skater with lack of motivation.

As for Gubanova's interview - there are enough contradictive lines to hint that she wasn't sincere about many things or tried to downplay it (at least it's obvious if you read it in Russian). I am even willing to say that highly likely majority of fault for such abrupt parting with coach lies on Gubanova. To be more precise - probably there was serious conflict between them (judging by some of her personal streams - Gubanova has rather.. difficult character) and serious discipline and weight problems.

Lol.This is what buyanova interviwed about Nastya.

Is Nastya modest?

– She’s a real athlete. The one with whom you can communicate, she has her own opinion and I like that. She is able to explain her mistakes, which make the work of the coach easier. She can take a punch. It happens that a figure skater just listens to your monologue, but with Gubanova we always have a dialogue.

Is Nastya lazy or like that?She's definitely not.She has a goal and she works hard for it.This is how she could survive from all those dirty corruptions.If the training was not for nastya,It's okay It can happen.
But if they felt guilty about what they've done, they shouldn't have expelled her at least with even no informing and saying her inadequate athlete.There was no problem between Nastya and her former coach.The reason she switched her coach is T.tarasova underscored her badly and ruined her career at all.All things happened because of T.tarasova.If she didn't make such stupid things ,this wouldn't have ever happened.

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

moriel

Sugar Coated

vesperalvioletta

Scott512

Scott512

Scott512

Elana

Sugar Coated

Scott512

Vandevska

U don't have to build the end of the world out it.

Arbitrary

Mawwerg

colormyworld240

Scott512

Tolstoj

flanker

Scott512

Scott512

Scott512

Payako

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