2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Mathman · Aug 11, 2019

ancientpeas said:
I go back to my pet idea: Expand the GPF to 12 and increase its prestige and leave the world selection process alone.

I like this approach. There is one sure-fire way (and only one) to increase the prestige of the Grand Prix: offer a million dollar pay-out to the winner. Simona Halep got 3 million for winning Wimbledon. Tiger Woods got 2 million for winning the Masters. Now that's prestige!

Anyway, there is a big difference between the Grand Prix and the World Championship. I think that each point of view has it's place. Not every skater has a chance to participate in the Grand Prix. There is, in fact, a mishmash of rules mixing together "earning it" by past results and "being invited."

The World Championship is more democratic. In principle, any skater has the opportunity of jumping up and challenging the field at her national championship -- to the victor goes the spoils, in this case the spoils are the honor of representing your country at the big show. :rock:

Vandevska · Aug 11, 2019

dante said:
Personally, I like the GP much more than the championships, because it's a long-lasting serial that gives me the oppportunity to learn more about different athletes, and its results are more dependant on skills and consistency than luck or bureaucrats' favor.

Same :agree:

colormyworld240 · Aug 11, 2019

I just saw Alina's performance at Nagoya and the step sequence from Me Voy is my second favourite from her, after Black Swan. And the lutz looks like it's much higher than before. Overall I enjoy this program much more than POTO. I think it suits her better and the choreography also fits with the music better.

medoroa · Aug 12, 2019

Scott512 said:
Please don't get me started on this topic. It's very upsetting. I'm not saying smaller countries should be excluded they should not be excluded they should be included but not at the detriment to having the best a most deserving performers out there. When Canada for instance loses two of its three worlds spots for the ladies one of those should go to Russia and maybe one to Japan. I will never put figure skating on the same level as tennis or golf because in tennis and golf you earn everything you earned your ranking and it means something. Not so much in figure skating.

Doesn't the Olympics have like 30 or more entries for all four figure skating disciplines? They could certainly add another couple spots or offer wild cards to defending Olympic Champions who have maintained a certain criteria or ranking. But trying to get the international skating Union to do something to reward those who've earned it most is like spitting into the wind or swimming against the current.

I know I'm in the minority but I'm so strongly against this it's ridiculous. The women's event at Euros is already considered a Russian Nationals, what will we even gain from adding more Russian girls to the top 10? What we will gain: less chances for skaters from smaller federations -- those who are already disadvantaged in coaching, ice time, sponsorships, and state support will become even more disadvantaged in Euros and Worlds placements, which will result in less attention and less support. It'll become a vicious circle of those who have more will gain more and those who have less will get even less. Example: if Japan and the US were given six spots each in the Olympic cycles of 2005-2014, the current Russian ladies dominance might not even have happened because the Russian ladies who protected Russia's spots during this time would have been insignificant. It's hubris to think this won't happen to the Russian ladies again.

There are a ton of Russian and Japanese skaters I enjoy who probably won't get major assignments this year, but that's life. Sometimes it sucks.

Also, from a purely political POV, the ISU will not do this because the IOC will not like it, and the ISU is still on thin ice with the IOC.

Arbitrary · Aug 12, 2019

medoroa said:
I know I'm in the minority but I'm so strongly against this it's ridiculous. The women's event at Euros is already considered a Russian Nationals, what will we even gain from adding more Russian girls to the top 10? What we will gain: less chances for skaters from smaller federations -- those who are already disadvantaged in coaching, ice time, sponsorships, and state support will become even more disadvantaged in Euros and Worlds placements, which will result in less attention and less support. It'll become a vicious circle of those who have more will gain more and those who have less will get even less. Example: if Japan and the US were given six spots each in the Olympic cycles of 2005-2014, the current Russian ladies dominance might not even have happened because the Russian ladies who protected Russia's spots during this time would have been insignificant. It's hubris to think this won't happen to the Russian ladies again.

There are a ton of Russian and Japanese skaters I enjoy who probably won't get major assignments this year, but that's life. Sometimes it sucks.

Also, from a purely political POV, the ISU will not do this because the IOC will not like it, and the ISU is still on thin ice with the IOC.

Yes, sure.

But IOC knows ISU does some good money.
Drop FS from WOG and .... who knows what the impact on the income may happen.
Negative most likely.

The core of the problem is in the time slot per participant.
One skater/pair spends quite a time on ice. Preparatiins, actual skating, K&C... Only the tennis stands even worse, but the overall income from two athletes is higher.

medoroa · Aug 12, 2019

Arbitrary said:
But IOC knows ISU does some good money.
Drop FS from WOG and .... who knows what the impact on the income may happen.
Negative most likely.

Figure skating isn't ever broadcast where I live, not even during the Olympics, and the situation is the same in most countries outside of Japan, Russia, Canada, maybe Korea. Although it is still broadcast on sports channels, the price of broadcasting rights in the US has been dropping steadily since the 90s. The reason tennis can eat so much time and pay out so much money is the popularity of the broadcasting rights all around the globe. The more competitions they have, the more products they have to sell. Skating is the opposite: the more time they spend on competitions, the harder it becomes to sell the competitions because very, very little broadcasting time globally is dedicated to skating. It's folly to think that if they have twice as many GP events, they will make twice the money -- no, it's much more likely that the considerable expenses will double while they won't be able to sell more broadcasting rights globally. And that's another reason skating shouldn't go towards centralizing its competitors to the four big federations by giving them more spots: the popularity of the sport will become even more localized than it already is (and it's suuuuuuper localized already), hurting the potential for more profit.

neud · Aug 12, 2019

Figure skating will never get popularity of tennis while it's strongest skaters are blocked from the main events just because they are from Russia or Japan, but much weaker skaters have their spots there just because they are from the countries with zero interest in figure skating.
Look at the JGP events, some skaters skate worse than 6 years old russian skaters. Is it what people want to watch?

medoroa · Aug 12, 2019

neud said:
Look at the JGP events, some skaters skate worse than 6 years old russian skaters. Is it what people want to watch?

No one wants to watch the JGP in general. That's why it's on youtube. Even with the bottom skaters edited out, the ISU can't sell the broadcasting rights. This is the bottom line about the popularity of the sport and its profit potentials.

I know I'm being harsh but I must admit I'm a bit confused as to why people believe skating is so profitable. All evidence points to the contrary except for the very, very top elite skaters of a very few select countries. ISU could choose to only cater to the countries where the sport is already popular, leaving the majority of countries in the dust, but in order to be an Olympics-eligible sport it must have global appeal (this is why baseball is very often not included in the Olympics) and in order for it to have global appeal global athletes must be given equal chance. This is also how the ISU will grow the potential for more sales of broadcasting rights, e.g. in countries such as Spain and Germany.

neud · Aug 12, 2019

medoroa said:
No one wants to watch the JGP in general. That's why it's on youtube. Even with the bottom skaters edited out, the ISU can't sell the broadcasting rights. This is the bottom line about the popularity of the sport and its profit potentials.

I know I'm being harsh but I must admit I'm a bit confused as to why people believe skating is so profitable. All evidence points to the contrary except for the very, very top elite skaters of a very few select countries.

Russians and Japanese and some others want to watch JGP. But not because of weak skaters, because of strong ones.

ruga · Aug 12, 2019

ISU already raised prize money for major competitions. But seven figure salaries are truly utopian. Figure skating is still perceived as boring and not exciting in majority of the world. Having 15 skaters coming from one country won't make them sell more broadcasting rights I'm afraid, even if those 15 are miles ahead of others as many people still don't understand the scoring system. Some small countries broadcast major comps because their skaters are there, but Russia and Japan will continue to broadcast no matter if there are 3 or 30 of their skaters. Also, small fed skaters getting lower placements due to bigger quotas will reduce financing for FS and ice rinks in general there.

However, additional 1 or 2 spots won't make much difference. Japan and Russia should try to offer that to ISU. I'm still not over the thought that this year's World's medalists might not go there next year.

medoroa · Aug 12, 2019

neud said:
Russians and Japanese and some others want to watch JGP. But not because of weak skaters, because of strong ones.

Then why aren't their TV stations broadcasting them? Why weren't their TV stations broadcasting them before they got on youtube? Because the TV stations judged that the money they would have to pay to broadcast them wouldn't bring in the profit they wanted, i.e. it wasn't profitable. The youtube full event videos receive less than 100.000 views. This is not enough to generate ad revenue for any commercial TV station. Kostornaia has 200.000 views. This is very impressive for one person. However, she wouldn't even be able to make a living as a youtuber.

flanker · Aug 12, 2019

medoroa said:
I know I'm being harsh but I must admit I'm a bit confused as to why people believe skating is so profitable.

Tennis is definitely more popular. Yet during last ten, fifteen years I don't remember much films about tennis (the only one I have in mind is Wimbledon), but several about figure skating. Not that those films would have quality (unfortunately), but this sport definitely attracts some specific attention

As for the global impact. I don't know if it makes more difference and is for good, that skaters from those "smaller weaker countries" must train in those strong ones (Russia, USA, Canada) or that skaters from strong countries who are behind the top are forced to change colours and we see Paganini representing Switzerland and russian girls representing half of the Europe.

neud · Aug 12, 2019

medoroa said:
Then why aren't their TV stations broadcasting them? Why weren't their TV stations broadcasting them before they got on youtube? Because the TV stations judged that the money they would have to pay to broadcast them wouldn't bring in the profit they wanted, i.e. it wasn't profitable. The youtube full event videos receive less than 100.000 views. This is not enough to generate ad revenue for any commercial TV station. Kostornaia has 200.000 views. This is very impressive for one person. However, she wouldn't even be able to make a living as a youtuber.

Are you aware that main Russia 1 tv channel will broadcast live JGP on its website? Like it did even with test skates?

Alex65 · Aug 12, 2019

Little OT . Emigration to Russia of a short track star on the eve of Sochi 14 Viktor An greatly increased interest in this sport in Russia and at the same time influenced the growth of sports results of other Russian athletes in this sport. Now, after Victor left active sports, the Russians continue to be among the best at all starts. I think that if some high-class Russian ladies can take part for other countries, it will only benefit everyone. However, Rusfed can prevent this from happening as in biathlon, when the ex-Russians Domracheva and Kuzmina win and have OG gold, and for Russia this has not been achievable for many years.

thexfireball · Aug 12, 2019

medoroa said:
Then why aren't their TV stations broadcasting them? Why weren't their TV stations broadcasting them before they got on youtube? Because the TV stations judged that the money they would have to pay to broadcast them wouldn't bring in the profit they wanted, i.e. it wasn't profitable. The youtube full event videos receive less than 100.000 views. This is not enough to generate ad revenue for any commercial TV station. Kostornaia has 200.000 views. This is very impressive for one person. However, she wouldn't even be able to make a living as a youtuber.

Japan is actually broadcasting JGP this year. France I believe?

Orlov · Aug 12, 2019

I believe that you do not need to add new spots, but you need to go the other way. Need to add a new competition before WC (for example, in the beginning of march). It must satisfy two important limitations: a) should not replace the WС (not threaten status), b) as much as possible the strongest skaters should participate in it. I see a solution in the form of team competition - teams from the strongest ladies of the planet from those who do not participate in the WC.

For example, there are three teams. They are headed by federations with the maximum number of spots (or places if same number of spots) for the past season. In this season would be - Russia, Japan, USA. After that, federation recruit the strongest girls on the planet (not according to some formal criteria and ratings, but in their own opinion, taking into account all factors) from among those who are not invited to the WС. Moreover, the federation has the right to be the first to choose a lady who is a member of this federation and federation obliged to provide own figure skater in a situation where her own federation has not chosen her, but another federation is ready to take this lady. In the case of the choice of figure skaters from other federations (not belonging to these three), any deterministic algorithm for choosing figure skaters is applied (what kind of algorithm - it's secondary details). Each team recruits 8 participants, of which 4 warm-ups (24 skaters) are made. Then occur the usual format of the competition - SP and FP. The team with the highest total results wins. (The algorithm for summing up the results is also secondary now - it can simply be adding up scores or as they are doing now in WTT)

Personally, I would watch such a contest with no less interest and pleasure than a WC.

dante · Aug 12, 2019

ruga said:
I'm still not over the thought that this year's World's medalists might not go there next year.

At least we can expect Elizabet getting to the top 3 in Kazakhstan.

tempo · Aug 12, 2019

Substitutions at JGP Grand Prix de Courchevel 2019:

Kamila Valieva and Maya Khromykh

http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat03109474.htm

Edwin · Aug 12, 2019

A pity, I thought Usachyova’a music selection would please the French audience and perhaps give her a slight advantage.
Good for Khromikh though to be able to perform in one of the more prestigious stages of JGP.

I am sure neither of the girls would have disappointed any audience.

No more substitutions can be made?

Fluture · Aug 12, 2019

tempo said:
Substitutions at JGP Grand Prix de Courchevel 2019:

Kamila Valieva and Maya Khromykh

http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat03109474.htm

So we‘re not going to see Kanysheva and Usacheva?

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Mathman

Vandevska

U don't have to build the end of the world out it.

colormyworld240

medoroa

Arbitrary

medoroa

neud

Match Penalty

medoroa

neud

Match Penalty

ruga

medoroa

flanker

neud

Match Penalty

Alex65

thexfireball

Orlov

dante

a dark lord

tempo

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!

Fluture

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