LTS fail #2

anonymoose_au · May 8, 2019

Indeed, the only time I've worn a helmet while skating was on the cruise ship Voyager of the Seas, they wouldn't let you skate otherwise, it felt really weird.

Funnily enough, Australia has compulsory helmet laws for bicycle riding, but not skating.

Elija · May 8, 2019

anonymoose_au said:
Indeed, the only time I've worn a helmet while skating was on the cruise ship Voyager of the Seas, they wouldn't let you skate otherwise, it felt really weird.

Funnily enough, Australia has compulsory helmet laws for bicycle riding, but not skating.

Haha same in NZ! Gotta wear one to ride a bike but not to skate. Little kids and very beginner adults have to wear them at learn to skate at my rink (not sure what other rinks are like), but once they pass the beginner level they don’t have to wear a helmet.

karne · May 8, 2019

anonymoose_au said:
Indeed, the only time I've worn a helmet while skating was on the cruise ship Voyager of the Seas, they wouldn't let you skate otherwise, it felt really weird.

Funnily enough, Australia has compulsory helmet laws for bicycle riding, but not skating.

Those pop-up rinks that show up in cities around July/August make kids under 10 wear them.

silver.blades · May 8, 2019

hanyuufan5 said:
No, each rink sets its own policy. Beginners at my rink aren't required to wear helmets officially, but I don't think the coaches would be any too happy if someone in LTS1 showed up without one. That being said, I can't imagine having to wear one until level 5! Is that only in the lessons or at freestyle sessions and public skating as well?

Passing stage 5 is the requirement to not wear a helmet on any Skate Canada session. Not sure how equivalent the levels are between Canada and the US. Here stage 5 is still mostly basic skating skills with introductions to a 1-foot spin and a bunny hop. You can see the full program here. Most rinks don't allow CanSkaters on higher level sessions, so the lower level skaters don't tend to have access to freestyle sessions.

Not sure about other Cities, but where I am the public rinks set their own policies with regards to helmets and require everyone 6 and under to wear one. City program require everyone (including instructors) to wear a helmet to participate.

Mathman · May 8, 2019

g8rsara said:
I’ve only been on the ice a year and have my first show next week, so don’t give up!!

Break a leg! as they say in show business.

ancientpeas · May 8, 2019

I am impressed by all you adult skaters. Keep up the good work.

scb · May 11, 2019

@OP, there is one figure skating shop in the metro area, where you'd be looking at $70-$200 for skates to start. I'd recommend trying to talk to one of the non-teenage staff if possible - the girl who fit my first pair was sweet, but her recommendation was 1.5 sizes and a width larger than I eventually ended up in (same brand and sizing chart). :scratch2:

Whether the rental skates are any good is highly dependent on luck, and a true beginner might have trouble telling whether they've been lucky or not... I've seen a kid learn up to axel prep in a rental, and plenty of other kids at the same rink whose rentals literally prevented them from standing upright.

moonvine · May 12, 2019

silver.blades said:
I can't believe that you were allowed on the ice without a helmet. Skate Canada requires everyone below Stage 5 to wear one before they get on the ice. A helmet is a must to protect your head when you're starting out. Ice is slippery.

With regards to skates, you should try to go to a fitter, but Jacksons sells pretty good low level skates for around $100, which will probably last you several years given your level.

I wasn't allowed on the ice at all. The main problem is I can't get up. I couldn't get up from the ground with skates AT ALL. It is way harder than with street shoes.

sandraskates · May 12, 2019

moonvine said:
I wasn't allowed on the ice at all. The main problem is I can't get up. I couldn't get up from the ground with skates AT ALL. It is way harder than with street shoes.

Is the coach or an employee showing you the technique on how to fall and how to get up?

This is how I teach getting up to new skaters; I'll use the terms I tell kids to make it more visual:

Move both your legs to the side - like you're a mermaid or a fish
Tuck your legs under you and place your hands on the ice (hopefully you're wearing gloves) and pretend you are a puppy or kitten
Bend one knee so the one blade is on the ice; the other skate will still be tucked under you
Put one hand on that bent knee, the other hand on the ice OR you can put both hands on the bent knee
Slowly bring your body up using the hand on ice to push upward OR stable yourself with the two-hands on bent knee while bringing your body up; do not let your back leg slip backwards

I don't know how much you can visualize the above but I hope that helps. You should master this off-ice first.
There are many videos on YouTube if you search on "getting up from falling on ice skates" and the techniques have some variances but that is no big deal as you'll learn what works for you.

Whatever you do, you Do NOT want to "crab walk" with hands behind you and skates in front of you in a getting up attempt. I really hope that is not what they are showing you or what you're doing.

scb · May 12, 2019

sandraskates said:
Is the coach or an employee showing you the technique on how to fall and how to get up?

This is how I teach getting up to new skaters; I'll use the terms I tell kids to make it more visual:

Move both your legs to the side - like you're a mermaid or a fish
Tuck your legs under you and place your hands on the ice (hopefully you're wearing gloves) and pretend you are a puppy or kitten
Bend one knee so the one blade is on the ice; the other skate will still be tucked under you
Put one hand on that bent knee, the other hand on the ice OR you can put both hands on the bent knee
Slowly bring your body up using the hand on ice to push upward OR stable yourself with the two-hands on bent knee while bringing your body up; do not let your back leg slip backwards

I don't know how much you can visualize the above but I hope that helps. You should master this off-ice first.
There are many videos on YouTube if you search on "getting up from falling on ice skates" and the techniques have some variances but that is no big deal as you'll learn what works for you.

Whatever you do, you Do NOT want to "crab walk" with hands behind you and skates in front of you in a getting up attempt. I really hope that is not what they are showing you or what you're doing.

The one-leg kneel is definitely how I would demonstrate getting up, and I wouldn't ever think to recommend the "crab walk", but I've noticed I instinctively use the crab walk after falling on my rear (which happens a lot!). Many of the hockey boys here do it as well. Just curious, if someone does naturally find the crab walk manageable, is it still better not to use it for another reason? Does it strain something over time?

(Sorry for the tangent, OP!)

sandraskates · May 12, 2019

scb - oh my, I'm on the spot! :laugh:

For an absolute beginners and especially an adult beginner, a crab walk will put them way off-balance and they will end up slipping and sliding on their skates and hands, likely fall backwards, and potentially hurt their body or pull a muscle.

*That said* I do see a lot of the little kids and some flexible teens (but not many adults) naturally take the crab walk to spring back up!
I don't know what that will do their body over time, but as an older adult I'm gonna say that you'll naturally give up the crab walk over time!

Ic3Rabbit · May 12, 2019

scb said:
The one-leg kneel is definitely how I would demonstrate getting up, and I wouldn't ever think to recommend the "crab walk", but I've noticed I instinctively use the crab walk after falling on my rear (which happens a lot!). Many of the hockey boys here do it as well. Just curious, if someone does naturally find the crab walk manageable, is it still better not to use it for another reason? Does it strain something over time?

(Sorry for the tangent, OP!)

Crab walk is bad all around. Makes you more likely to whack your head on the ice and get concussion.

scb · May 12, 2019

sandraskates said:
*That said* I do see a lot of the little kids and some flexible teens (but not many adults) naturally take the crab walk to spring back up!
I don't know what that will do their body over time, but as an older adult I'm gonna say that you'll naturally give up the crab walk over time!

Sorry, didn't mean to single you out - I'm just weirdly fascinated by the act of getting up (maybe because I have to do it so often) :slink:

I was a sedentary kid with few opportunities to injure myself, so I'm sure learning to skate as an adult is accelerating the loss of springiness rapidly...

Having tried on the ground, it looks like my "crab" is just to a squatting position, after which I can creak up vertically instead of a mixed horizontal/vertical bounce - the true crab? If I did the latter I can definitely see whacking something, as Ic3rabbit suggests.

moonvine · May 13, 2019

sandraskates said:
Is the coach or an employee showing you the technique on how to fall and how to get up?

This is how I teach getting up to new skaters; I'll use the terms I tell kids to make it more visual:

Move both your legs to the side - like you're a mermaid or a fish
Tuck your legs under you and place your hands on the ice (hopefully you're wearing gloves) and pretend you are a puppy or kitten
Bend one knee so the one blade is on the ice; the other skate will still be tucked under you
Put one hand on that bent knee, the other hand on the ice OR you can put both hands on the bent knee
Slowly bring your body up using the hand on ice to push upward OR stable yourself with the two-hands on bent knee while bringing your body up; do not let your back leg slip backwards

I don't know how much you can visualize the above but I hope that helps. You should master this off-ice first.
There are many videos on YouTube if you search on "getting up from falling on ice skates" and the techniques have some variances but that is no big deal as you'll learn what works for you.

Whatever you do, you Do NOT want to "crab walk" with hands behind you and skates in front of you in a getting up attempt. I really hope that is not what they are showing you or what you're doing.

It is a coach. What she is teaching me is to go into a squatting position with my hands in front of me. Then I kind of fall to the side (I'm supposed to kind of gently lower myself, but I can't), which is where I run into a problem because I kind of end up throwing myself down. Then to get up I'm supposed to kind of kneel and put one foot on the ice, then bring the other foot on the ice, and stand up. I can't do that part either. It could take me months to be able to do that. I couldn't even pull myself up with the walker. The whole falling thing is silly to me. I assume when you fall on ice you're going to fall as quickly or more quickly than you do on the ground. My brain is not going to have time to process all that and I'm going to fall any which way I fall.

moonvine · May 13, 2019

scb said:
@OP, there is one figure skating shop in the metro area, where you'd be looking at $70-$200 for skates to start. I'd recommend trying to talk to one of the non-teenage staff if possible - the girl who fit my first pair was sweet, but her recommendation was 1.5 sizes and a width larger than I eventually ended up in (same brand and sizing chart).

Whether the rental skates are any good is highly dependent on luck, and a true beginner might have trouble telling whether they've been lucky or not... I've seen a kid learn up to axel prep in a rental, and plenty of other kids at the same rink whose rentals literally prevented them from standing upright.

I can't find any skates at the rink which even come close to fitting me. I end up having to ask for longer laces, then put them in all these skates. It could be 1/2 hour or more and by then I'm frustrated. I went and got skates Saturday. I tried on about 10 pairs ranging from size 6 to size 8. I ended up with size 8 Riedells, the tongue still is not large enough and there's space between the tongue and the edge of the boot. The only way I could have gotten skates with a tongue that fit was to buy a pair of $170 or more skates and paying an extra $100 to have new tongues made and waiting 2 plus weeks for them to come back. They did have skate laces that are plenty long though. As it is I'm wearing male skates; thank Goddess I don't much care what people think, but I would have rather had the purple ones. Also, they do not sell helmets there. They recommended I use a bike helmet.

moonvine · May 13, 2019

WednesdayMarch said:
I applaud your determination to get on the ice and learn to skate! And I wouldn't say that qualifies as a fail at all; you've got further than you did last time and after that first (appalling) experience I would say you're amazingly resilient not to have just thrown in the skate guards and walked away to take up something like crochet...

I learned to skate long before helmets were a thing for skaters (and we were always told that once you've hit your head, you soon learn to hold it up!) but having seen a fair number of adults being completely put off skating after hitting their heads, I'd definitely recommend wearing one. If you need longer laces because you have wide feet and ankles, a beginner friend of mine who has those issues has just bought Edea Overtures in the E fitting, which is very wide indeed. She also needed longer laces than the ones supplied by the skate shop, but she's very happy now, much happier than in her Jackson Artistes, which were way too long and not really wide enough.

Buy a helmet and some skates (as the others say, ideally get properly fitted) and I look forward to reading about your continuing adventures in skating.

At this point this is no longer about skating. Perhaps it will be again one day, but right now it is 100% about Gracie. I have a Senior Olympic swim meet coming up at the end of the month and I have to prepare for that as well.

sandraskates · May 13, 2019

moonvine said:
It is a coach. What she is teaching me is to go into a squatting position with my hands in front of me. Then I kind of fall to the side (I'm supposed to kind of gently lower myself, but I can't), which is where I run into a problem because I kind of end up throwing myself down. Then to get up I'm supposed to kind of kneel and put one foot on the ice, then bring the other foot on the ice, and stand up.
I can't do that part either. It could take me months to be able to do that. I couldn't even pull myself up with the walker. The whole falling thing is silly to me. I assume when you fall on ice you're going to fall as quickly or more quickly than you do on the ground. My brain is not going to have time to process all that and I'm going to fall any which way I fall.

I assure you that the "whole falling thing" is not silly and is quite important as EVERYBODY falls (even Gracie). The coach is teaching you properly the very first skill that a beginner should learn - both how to fall and get up.
Take some time to master this off the ice, even if you can only practice at home in your shoes. Good luck at your swim meet!

moonvine · May 13, 2019

sandraskates said:
I assure you that the "whole falling thing" is not silly and is quite important as EVERYBODY falls (even Gracie). The coach is teaching you properly the very first skill that a beginner should learn - both how to fall and get up.
Take some time to master this off the ice, even if you can only practice at home in your shoes. Good luck at your swim meet!

Yes, everyone falls, even Nathan! I believe I was not explaining things right. When I fall, my brain may have enough time to let me know I'm falling. It won't have enough time for me to say, "ok, you're falling, squat and put your hands in front of you and gently lower yourself to your hip." My brain just isn't that fast. Thanks for the luck, I will need all I can get as I haven't been in the water since I was in the hospital last August. I do the butterfly, which a lot of people don't do, and that keeps me from embarrassing myself too much and allows me to bring home some medals.

Ykai · May 13, 2019

moonvine said:
Yes, everyone falls, even Nathan! I believe I was not explaining things right. When I fall, my brain may have enough time to let me know I'm falling. It won't have enough time for me to say, "ok, you're falling, squat and put your hands in front of you and gently lower yourself to your hip." My brain just isn't that fast. Thanks for the luck, I will need all I can get as I haven't been in the water since I was in the hospital last August. I do the butterfly, which a lot of people don't do, and that keeps me from embarrassing myself too much and allows me to bring home some medals.

I think for the learn to skate lesson, the emphasis is not on how to fall, but really on how to get up. As you said, your brain or your body never reacts so fast that you can fall gently. And when you fall, if you struggle to keep your balance, you usually end up hitting the ice the harder way. But if you can let it go and just fall, it actually hurts less (it still hurts though).

It is really awesome you can do butterfly. I couldn't even do a proper freestyle :eek:

:. Good luck and bring home lots of medals!

moonvine · May 14, 2019

Ykai said:
I think for the learn to skate lesson, the emphasis is not on how to fall, but really on how to get up. As you said, your brain or your body never reacts so fast that you can fall gently. And when you fall, if you struggle to keep your balance, you usually end up hitting the ice the harder way. But if you can let it go and just fall, it actually hurts less (it still hurts though).

It is really awesome you can do butterfly. I couldn't even do a proper freestyle:. Good luck and bring home lots of medals!

I love butterfly...it's my favorite stroke. It's like a meditation...kick kick pull...kick kick pull...anyway...tomorrow I am going to do yoga, then swim, then do tai chi, so I hope I have time to practice getting up. I'm also going to get one of the gym rats at the Y to show me some exercises to get my legs stronger..because I totally cannot get up on skates. Maybe if I can pull myself up on the barrier, but I tried getting up by pushing off the walker thingie and I couldn't. I had to take the skates off, then stand up. Honestly when I learned to roller skate I just put on skates, went out there, no helmet, no learning how to fall, and I held on to the barrier and fell and fell and fell and fell until I worked it out for myself. But that was in the 70's and that's how we rolled.

LTS fail #2

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here

Elija

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

silver.blades

Mathman

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

scb

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

sandraskates

scb

sandraskates

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

scb

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

sandraskates

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

Ykai

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

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