LTS fail #2

silver.blades · May 14, 2019

moonvine said:
Yes, everyone falls, even Nathan! I believe I was not explaining things right. When I fall, my brain may have enough time to let me know I'm falling. It won't have enough time for me to say, "ok, you're falling, squat and put your hands in front of you and gently lower yourself to your hip." My brain just isn't that fast. Thanks for the luck, I will need all I can get as I haven't been in the water since I was in the hospital last August. I do the butterfly, which a lot of people don't do, and that keeps me from embarrassing myself too much and allows me to bring home some medals.

That's the reason we "train" falling. The more times you go through the motions, the quicker you are to react in the safest way possible when you actually fall. Muscle memory does wonders.

tstop4me · May 14, 2019

moonvine said:
Thanks for the luck, I will need all I can get as I haven't been in the water since I was in the hospital last August. I do the butterfly, which a lot of people don't do, and that keeps me from embarrassing myself too much and allows me to bring home some medals.

<<Emphasis added>> I was thinking that a lot of stuff hasn't been adding up; i.e., if you are a competitive swimmer, you should be in good condition, with strong legs in particular, and shouldn't have all these problems simply getting up on the ice. But now you indicate you haven't been swimming for 8-9 months now. Have you been keeping in shape otherwise? Have you been checked out by a medical professional prior to trying to learn to skate?

tstop4me · May 14, 2019

moonvine said:
Also, they do not sell helmets there. They recommended I use a bike helmet.

(a) I'd stay away from bike helmets. They're generally designed for a single high-intensity impact. Also, the aerodynamic ones, with the pointy ends fore and aft, are particularly dangerous on the ice.

(b) I don't care for the soft bands. I've witnessed two nasty incidents in which the skaters wore soft bands. In each, the skater fell backwards, hitting his head against the ice. The soft band popped off; the head rebounded; the unprotected head whacked against the ice; the skater was escorted off the ice.

Options to consider:

(c) Hockey helmet (that's what I personally wear). Virginia Tech has been testing hockey helmets for effectiveness against concussions. Their latest results can be found here: https://helmet.beam.vt.edu/hockey-helmet-ratings.html.

(d) Snow Sports helmets. If you don't care for the hockey-jock look, there are sleeker snow sports helmets.

Whatever you choose, here are factors to consider:

(1) Don't buy online. Try the helmet on. The helmet needs to fit properly and fit comfortably. If it doesn't fit properly, it probably won't provide good protection. If it doesn't fit comfortably, you'll probably stop wearing it. The el-cheapo ones are one size fits all, with stick-on foam pads for adjustment; stay away from those. Choose one that comes in a variety of sizes, and has both an adjustable headband and an adjustable chinstrap. Helmets come in different form factors; so choose one that fits your head.

(2) Choose a helmet that's designed for multiple impacts. These combine a hard shell with multiple layers of resilient and non-resilient structural elements. Single-impact helmets often have only non-resilient structural elements that are designed to crumple or fragment upon impact.

(3) Choose a helmet that's relatively lightweight consistent with degree of protection: this typically involves more intricate design and materials. They're more expensive, but well worth it.

(4) Choose a helmet that's well ventilated. Otherwise, you'll sweat like crazy in the course of a session (i.e., once you're past the rudimentary stages of skating).

moonvine · May 15, 2019

tstop4me said:
<<Emphasis added>> I was thinking that a lot of stuff hasn't been adding up; i.e., if you are a competitive swimmer, you should be in good condition, with strong legs in particular, and shouldn't have all these problems simply getting up on the ice. But now you indicate you haven't been swimming for 8-9 months now. Have you been keeping in shape otherwise? Have you been checked out by a medical professional prior to trying to learn to skate?

I've been from professional to professional to professional. There have been times in there I've been on a walker and I have a permanent handicapped sticker. After I got out of the hospital I was in bed for quite some time and on a lot of steroids, and also gained 75 pounds. I made it to Nationals because I was on steroids and I had little walking due to having a driver. I do have medication for all the joint pain now - it was really bad for awhile. Anyway yes I have been checked out by tons of medical professionals, some days I was going to 3 a week- I have one for joint pain, one for oversleeping, etc etc and have permission to exercise and to attempt to learn to skate. Before I got sick I was swimming 2 hours a day most days. Yesterday I was stupid and decided to do an hour of yoga, 40 minutes of swimming, and an hour of tai chi. I then came home and slept 14 hours. As for being a competitive swimmer - I would not say I'm competitive. I compete on the local Senior Olympic circuit against other people my age. There's a time in each race - 50 freestyle, 50 butterfly, etc you have to make to go to national senior olympics which I will probably never make. Also if you are too slow at nationals they will actually make you get out of the water. They don't do that on the local level. I may scratch out of some of the longer races like the 200 yard butterfly, but I was able to do 50 yards butterfly, 100 yard im, etc. yesterday.

moonvine · May 15, 2019

tstop4me said:
(a) I'd stay away from bike helmets. They're generally designed for a single high-intensity impact. Also, the aerodynamic ones, with the pointy ends fore and aft, are particularly dangerous on the ice.

(b) I don't care for the soft bands. I've witnessed two nasty incidents in which the skaters wore soft bands. In each, the skater fell backwards, hitting his head against the ice. The soft band popped off; the head rebounded; the unprotected head whacked against the ice; the skater was escorted off the ice.

Options to consider:

(c) Hockey helmet (that's what I personally wear). Virginia Tech has been testing hockey helmets for effectiveness against concussions. Their latest results can be found here: https://helmet.beam.vt.edu/hockey-helmet-ratings.html.

(d) Snow Sports helmets. If you don't care for the hockey-jock look, there are sleeker snow sports helmets.

Whatever you choose, here are factors to consider:

(1) Don't buy online. Try the helmet on. The helmet needs to fit properly and fit comfortably. If it doesn't fit properly, it probably won't provide good protection. If it doesn't fit comfortably, you'll probably stop wearing it. The el-cheapo ones are one size fits all, with stick-on foam pads for adjustment; stay away from those. Choose one that comes in a variety of sizes, and has both an adjustable headband and an adjustable chinstrap. Helmets come in different form factors; so choose one that fits your head.

(2) Choose a helmet that's designed for multiple impacts. These combine a hard shell with multiple layers of resilient and non-resilient structural elements. Single-impact helmets often have only non-resilient structural elements that are designed to crumple or fragment upon impact.

(3) Choose a helmet that's relatively lightweight consistent with degree of protection: this typically involves more intricate design and materials. They're more expensive, but well worth it.

(4) Choose a helmet that's well ventilated. Otherwise, you'll sweat like crazy in the course of a session (i.e., once you're past the rudimentary stages of skating).

Thank you. I was just about to buy a bike helmet. Glad I read this first. If nothing else we have scads of hockey stores around here. Thank you.

Ic3Rabbit · May 15, 2019

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, and never want to discourage anyone from the sport, but if this continues to not work out: You may have to say it's not for you and move on.

With your description of your injuries and joint issues etc upthread, it only makes one think this more, and I will tell you from experience that figure skating is NOT good on joints. It has destroyed many of mine. Some mornings off ice on bad days I walk like I'm 80 and I'm way over half that age.

Just something to consider, okay?

Good luck with everything always.

Sam L · May 15, 2019

OP it may be the end of the line for you. How old are you? I think you may have to be content with just ice skating. Doing laps around the rink turns and edges.

goldentwizzle · May 15, 2019

moonvine said:
Thank you. I was just about to buy a bike helmet. Glad I read this first. If nothing else we have scads of hockey stores around here. Thank you.

Just some things I want to add:
- Hockey helmets are made for bodychecking and not falling so they might not be the safest for learning to skate
- Also, most hockey helmets under $100 will not do anything in a fall
- Stay away from soft bands, I've seen skaters wear them and the bands did nothing when they fell
- Snowboarding or skiing helmet might be heavy and not that comfortable when you're skating around

I suggest looking for a single impact helmet like a bike helmet without the aerodynamic tail because those will save your head from a fracture if you fall, or if not then your best bet might be a skateboard helmet, because they are made to withstand multiple impacts and do not have the tail which can cause snapped necks if you fall backwards onto it. When I wear a helmet for biking I like one that has a an adjustment dial on the back to help with fitting so see if you can find a skateboard helmet with an adjustment dial on it.

Sam L · May 15, 2019

Might be best not to wear a helmet.

lynnems · May 16, 2019

You could also get a short track speedskating helmet. It would have to be purchased online unless you live in Salt Lake City

goldentwizzle · May 16, 2019

lynnems said:
You could also get a short track speedskating helmet. It would have to be purchased online unless you live in Salt Lake City

I'll second this as I've seen a kid fell backwards onto his head while going super fast during schoolskate and the helmet was destroyed when he fell down, but he was fine and had no reports of concussion or traumas afterwards. However, I've looked at speed skating helmets online and they cost about US$100 minimum, so you might wanna invest in a bike helmet with a similar shape or a skateboard helmet instead, as they are about 3 times as cheap

tstop4me · May 17, 2019

goldentwizzle said:
- Hockey helmets are made for bodychecking and not falling so they might not be the safest for learning to skate

This at least appears to imply that hockey players are not subject to as severe head impacts as beginner skaters. I've watched enough hockey games and beginner skaters to know that's not true. Here's one brief article (there are more detailed ones) on how Virgina Tech tests hockey helmets: https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2017/12/ictas-fivestarhockey.html. Note the following excerpt:

A hockey game is packed with opportunities for players to hit their heads on rigid surfaces: the ice, the glass, another player’s helmet. And hockey helmets tend to be light and thin, which limits their ability to cushion the force of those impacts.

The new CCM helmet contains optimized padding systems that reduce head acceleration for a range of possible impact scenarios.

“It manages the impact energy better, and that shows in the rating,” Rowson said.

Each helmet’s STAR rating is the result of 48 impact tests designed specifically for hockey players.

Data from thousands of real impacts recorded during hockey games helped the Virginia Tech team design a laboratory setup to simulate those hits accurately.

In the lab, a dummy headform struck by an anvil mimics a player’s impact with a hard surface while sensors in the head measure the force. The team repeats these tests hundreds of times, using consumer helmets purchased from retailers, to evaluate how well each model reduces the head’s linear and rotational acceleration. That reduction in acceleration is translated into the helmet’s STAR rating.

<<Emphasis added>>

Each helmet has its pluses and minuses; each skater can decide the appropriate choice based on his or her particular needs and constraints.

tstop4me · May 17, 2019

Sam L said:
Might be best not to wear a helmet.

Each choice typically has its pluses and minuses. For the benefit of beginner skaters who are considering whether or not to wear a helmet, could you please explain the reasoning behind your assertion that it is better (at least in some instances) for a beginner skater not to wear a helmet?

moonvine · May 17, 2019

Sam L said:
OP it may be the end of the line for you. How old are you? I think you may have to be content with just ice skating. Doing laps around the rink turns and edges.

I'm 52. Not 72. However, I am starting to believe this may be a longer term project than I can accomplish by July and will involve some combination of weight loss, practicing falling, getting strong enough to get up, and maybe some other stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

tstop4me said:
Each choice typically has its pluses and minuses. For the benefit of beginner skaters who are considering whether or not to wear a helmet, could you please explain the reasoning behind your assertion that it is better (at least in some instances) for a beginner skater not to wear a helmet?

In my case it does not matter as they will not let me out on the ice without a helmet, but I do think this is a good conversation.

moonvine · May 31, 2019

I'm taking my swim meet story to The Cafe if anyone is interested.

LTS fail #2

silver.blades

tstop4me

tstop4me

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Sam L

goldentwizzle

Sam L

lynnems

goldentwizzle

tstop4me

tstop4me

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie

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