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Thread: New Mini Series Chernobyl -HBO/Sky Atlantic

  1. #21
    GS Supporter Tutto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Of course, I will form my final opinion only after seeing the series. But at the moment I am interested in the reception of the series. Some people think the series is the farthest thing from propaganda that there could be and some people think it is a political propaganda exploiting Pripyat’s tragedy.

    There is an interesting interview regarding the intention of the series with the creator Craig Mazin. He says:
    [I]"... this was not an anti-nuclear polemic. It’s anti­–Soviet government, and it is anti-lie, and it is pro–human being." And later: "... the Soviet system was terrible, and criminal, and murderous, and oppressive." ...."The Soviets were masters of weaponized narration. And interestingly, they appear to have continued that tradition. The KGB is gone, but the FSB is here."
    https://slate.com/culture/2019/06/ch...interview.html
    When I read it, I think again about the following words of an IMDB-User: "(the show is) permeated with hatred for the Soviet Union. The main idea is that the authorities of the Soviet Union were more terrible than the Chernobyl disaster."
    First of all it doesn't come across to me as a hatred for the country itself but negativity toward the system. They could easily have gone overboard but they didn't and that it's achieved by separating ordinary people from the system and showing them in a sympathetic way.
    I sense maybe wrongly that you somehow prejudiced against the show though you actually haven't watched it yet. Give it a go and then pass a judgement. As someone who grew up in the Soviet Union (albeit in a more western like part - the Baltic states),I can tell you it was every bit as bad as portrayed in the series. Though of course people lived their lives with all the usual private joys & sorrows it was effectively a gigantic prison. My Dad who was very keen on travelling never got a chance to go abroad because he would not be allowed to by KGB. People were forced into spying on each other being caught on something as minor as receiving a parcel from abroad, I can go on and on.. To this day when I travel to Russia I am scared that somehow they won't let me out on the way back ( I know it is totally ridiculous but one look at passport control officers with their stony faces and eyes penetrating you through sends chills down my spine ...KGB might not exist anymore but it is there all the same...

  2. #22
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    Tutto, an open discusssion about politics is here not allowed. But you can PM me, if you want. I will surely watch the show, and hope it is more pro-human being and less anti-Soviet government (to use the words of Craig Mazin).

  3. #23
    Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps el henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyguy View Post
    Tutto, an open discusssion about politics is here not allowed. But you can PM me, if you want. I will surely watch the show, and hope it is more pro-human being and less anti-Soviet government (to use the words of Craig Mazin).
    "anti-soviet" is not the at all the intention of Craig Mazin. In fact, there are many quotes from Craig Mazin that show exactly the opposite (as in yesterday's LA Times):

    "There are historical events that are interesting, they’re just not that relevant. I think this one is interesting and relevant, and it does have greater implications for how we move through our lives and how we relate to our own government and how we relate to the truth... My greatest worry was that people would see the show and say, “Those people did something. Those people had a problem. That was about that.” So now we’re just sort of gawking at history. Far from it: There was nothing that happened in the Soviet Union that couldn’t happen anywhere else, because the last time I checked, the Soviet Union was made up of people, and these are human problems.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...619-story.html

    and the narrative that Chernobyl is an example of anti-Soviet propaganda is not true:

    https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/cherno...et-propaganda/

    That narrative is presented by websites with a particular point of view like "Southfront" (Southfront really seems to love that quote in your post, without presenting all the other quotes from Mazin, which doesn't surprise me)

    But in any event, none of this important. We are discussing the show here from the point of view of those who have actually seen it. (and I thank those posters here who have given their first hand accounts of the events).

    The important thing is that *so* many people have seen, and been touched by, this show, far more than any random comments by anonymous reviewers on IMDB. I have not finished watching, but it is without a doubt, must see TV.

    https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...619-story.html

    I am heartened by the fact that so many persons have watched and come to their own conclusions.

    I look forward to yours when you have seen it.
    Last edited by el henry; 06-20-2019 at 07:33 PM. Reason: rearrange paragraphs

  4. #24
    Tripping on the Podium vesperalvioletta's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if anyone else follows ballerina Maria Khoreva on Instagram, but she recently made a post remarking that she thought the series was "a big lie." It was an interesting perspective to see from a young Russian (she's just recently 19) who has a better understanding/connection than some to Western media, as her mother is an interpreter and she speaks near fluent English. Was there a similar response from other Russian/former Soviet bloc viewers?

  5. #25
    Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps el henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesperalvioletta View Post
    I'm not sure if anyone else follows ballerina Maria Khoreva on Instagram, but she recently made a post remarking that she thought the series was "a big lie." It was an interesting perspective to see from a young Russian (she's just recently 19) who has a better understanding/connection than some to Western media, as her mother is an interpreter and she speaks near fluent English. Was there a similar response from other Russian/former Soviet bloc viewers?
    Unfortunately, as I posted earlier, the disinformation machine has been hard at work, so it wouldn’t surprise me. ETA: I wonder if she has seen the show, or is just relating what she has heard?

    After all, the official word is still that 33 people died, right. 33

    And Jason Brown has landed four different quads.....
    Last edited by el henry; 07-11-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  6. #26
    Tripping on the Podium Edwin's Avatar
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    It is a gripping and dramatic series for sure.

    And a study in government authority and control.

    I wonder, would such a catastrophe have happened in the West, say in the USA, UK or France during the nuclear arms race of the fifties, before the advent of mass media and electronic communication. Would 'our' authorities have handled an unprecedented situation much different? Sent thousands of conscripts to their destruction?

  7. #27
    GS Supporter Tutto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin View Post
    It is a gripping and dramatic series for sure.

    And a study in government authority and control.

    I wonder, would such a catastrophe have happened in the West, say in the USA, UK or France during the nuclear arms race of the fifties, before the advent of mass media and electronic communication. Would 'our' authorities have handled an unprecedented situation much different? Sent thousands of conscripts to their destruction?
    Had we been in any doubt on that point prior to 2011, Fukushima I think since proved that even if information is much more accessible nowadays than in the lets say 50s, other things are no different at all. Okay maybe 'bio-robots' were not used on such scale as in Chernobyl (though I seem to remember that homeless & jobless were recruited for the most dangerous tasks) but all other 'ingredients' were very much present - denial, cover-up, deceit, downplay you name it. If anything the Soviet Union actually proved to be more efficient in dealing with the aftermath of the disaster, its totalitarian system meant that all the resources of the vast country were at disposal quickly (a quote from the show: Gorbachev to Sherbina: 'what you need - you have' ) The Japan's multi-layer system of command could not possibly compete with that.

  8. #28
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I wish I could watch this series, but I don't have the channel.

    The best book I have read on Chernobyl was Wormwood Forest, A Natural History of Chernobyl by Mary Mycio. Mycio spent extensive amount of time in the exclusion zone in 2005. She also did interviews in Kiev in 1989.

  9. #29
    GS Supporter Tutto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    Unfortunately, as I posted earlier, the disinformation machine has been hard at work, so it wouldn’t surprise me. ETA: I wonder if she has seen the show, or is just relating what she has heard?

    After all, the official word is still that 33 people died, right. 33

    And Jason Brown has landed four different quads.....
    Never mind the Russian ballerina who was not even born when the disaster happened, look who emerged with his take on the show - a familiar figure from the summer of 1986 (he came to Kiev twice then) Dr Robert Gale!

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#2ccf80481e07

    With no less than astonishment I read this 'revised' account of the events... the memory must be fading the poor chap after all 33 years passed since?
    He should have been a little more subtle to be believable though, as it is the whole passages read so suspiciously like what you come across on pro-nuke sites I mean as word for word really.
    On the IAEA payroll perhaps?

    I won't even comment on other statements of his but this one is really odd. It was understood eves since the dawn of 'nuclear time' that ARS victims are highly radioactive, the body of Marie Curie was buried in a coffin lined with lead. Many doctors who treated Chernobyl victims got considerable doses of radiation. The hospital No6 had to be renovated afterwards. What is he talking about?

  10. #30
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The question with radioactive risk depends on which radioactive isotopes the bodies are contaminated with. The most highly radioactive isotopes, like radioactive iodine, decay rapidly. Very stable isotopes take much, much longer. Some radioactive materials emit more damaging stuff (gamma rays), and some less damaging.

    https://science.howstuffworks.com/ra...-sickness1.htm

    Part of my cure from uterine cancer involved radiation.

    Radiation can both cause and cure cancer.

    So you would have to know exactly what type material and how much material the bodies were contaminated with, as well as how long ago they were contaminated to know whether the bodies would still be dangerous.

    Or a level set. President Jimmy Carter's urine was radioactive for at least six months after he led the team that dealt with the partial meltdown of the Chalk River reactor.

    "That time Jimmy Carter saved Canada from nuclear destruction"
    https://www.wearethemighty.com/artic...ar-destruction


    Lieutenant Carter divided himself and his 23 guys into teams of three. Each worked 90-second shifts cleaning and repairing the reactor as per what they practiced on the tennis court. A minute and a half was the maximum time the human body could handle the amount of radiation in the area.

    By today's standards, it was still way too much radiation – Carter and his men were exposed to levels a thousand times higher than what is now considered safe. He and his team absorbed a year's worth of radiation in that 90 seconds. The basement where they helped replace the reactor was so contaminated, Carter's urine was radioactive for six months after the incident.
    The effect on Carter is interesting. Carter is 94 years old, and obviously alive.

    He developed melanoma, probably from sun exposure.

    He developed liver cancers when he was 91, possibly influenced by his exposure at Chalk River. They are in remission.

    But if he were like many members of his family
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...cancer-n408751

    he might have been dead long ago from pancreatic cancer.

    Carter’s family has a history of pancreatic cancer. His father, both his sisters and his brother died of pancreatic cancer, and his mother had pancreatic cancer as well.
    Did his radiation exposure help or hurt him?

    His autopsy should be interesting, but I hope he lives much longer!

    And the reactor he and his team saved at Chalk River was operating until 2018.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 07-12-2019 at 04:13 PM.

  11. #31
    Bona Fide Member heyang's Avatar
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    One of my co-workers is an immigrant from Russia. She said that the days after the meltdown were accurately portrayed - people went about their business without being aware of the dangers of the fallout.

  12. #32
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    I’m am bit late to the party here, but this is the first I’ve heard of this series. It sounds like a must watch for me! I’ll definitely have to check it out. As a human geography major in university, and as someone who’s intrigued with urban exploration, I have a fascination with the abandoned city of Pripyat. It’s so eerie! Sometimes I think to myself that it should go on my bucket list of places to visit, as they do allow some tourists into certain areas, accompanied; if by a guide.... but then I start to wonder how many years all the close contact with so much radiation would shave off my life, and I usually reconsider. It’s a constant struggle.

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