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Thread: Message received by Medvedeva at skating show

  1. #21
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by katymay View Post
    I lived in Japan, and this would be very uncharacteristic of a Japanese person. (Yes, this seems like a gross generalization, but if you lived there you would understand what I mean) I wish they would investigate the source.
    I dont see why it would be "uncharacteristic" for one Japanese person to do such a thing. A single stereotypical characteristic trait probably doesnt match like 30% of a population. All it took was one crazy fan of another skater with an obsessive and jealous mindset.

  2. #22
    Medalist Manitou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriel View Post
    I mean, that is sort of bullying. We seen worse, i mean, people arena threatening her with physical violence or calling her obscene words, but still not cool.
    It’s worse than bullying. It’s a typical racist attack. I don’t know why people are afraid to call it what it really is.

  3. #23
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
    It’s worse than bullying. It’s a typical racist attack. I don’t know why people are afraid to call it what it really is.
    II don't know about that. It is hard to say what the motivation of the letter-writer is. He/she says, Get out of Japan, go back to Russia, get out of the Cricket Club. It is a strange form of "racism" that says, all you Russians better get out of Canada if you know what's good for you!

    I suppose that addressing the letter "Devil" might conjure up the epithet "white devil," meaning an oppressor of non-Caucasians. To me it's hard to guess the path that this person's mind is following. It could just be a bratty kid trying to be "bad."

  4. #24
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    What a horrible thing to tell someone. Yakes.

  5. #25
    Medalist Manitou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    II don't know about that. It is hard to say what the motivation of the letter-writer is. He/she says, Get out of Japan, go back to Russia, get out of the Cricket Club. It is a strange form of "racism" that says, all you Russians better get out of Canada if you know what's good for you!
    Sorry, if someone tells me to get out of a country because of my ethnicity then what is it?

  6. #26
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I'm failing to understand what is a matter to discuss it publicly?

    MED should inform the local police and ISU Disciplinary Board or whoever in charge. Period.

  7. #27
    Crawling around on the ice after chestnuts MGstyle's Avatar
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    Shortly after the news broke out, Zhenya posted a message on Instagram story - while thanking the kind words of support and Johnny who quickly defended her, she assured that that this is nothing new to her, and she knows how to deal with it (ignore and move on), and she is not in the least disturbed or hurt.
    She, above anyone else, knows this is just one imbecile jerk among thousands of fans who give her love and support, and won't let such a trifle ruin everything else that is positive.
    The best thing for the rest of the world is to follow her example.
    Anyone who would take the time to do such a foul thing is basically a troll, must have been highly amused by all the uproar the message created. Don't give him/her that satisfaction.

  8. #28
    GS Supporter voolfee's Avatar
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    I don't think it was a good idea to publish this letter, and not to throw it in the trash. If there were threats, then you could go to the police, but there was nothing like that. All famous figure skaters receive such letters, this is certainly a problem, but for some reason everyone began to feel sorry and swear to love Zhenya, and not to discuss the problem in general. Do you think Yuzuru or Alina doesn't receive such letters? But they just prefer to focus on positive things. I wish Zhenya to do the same and stop answering to negative comments on instagram and organize there contest for the roughest comments.

  9. #29
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
    Sorry, if someone tells me to get out of a country because of my ethnicity then what is it?
    It is xenophobia, not racism. But it is perhaps best to use the word "bigotry" to label all of this biased type stuff, since it is not arguable. It cannot be conflated with systemic racism or systemic xenophobia.

    If you would like to discuss this further, you could send me a PM.

  10. #30
    Long skate the Noble-born Honey-bear♕ Fluture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voolfee View Post
    I don't think it was a good idea to publish this letter, and not to throw it in the trash. If there were threats, then you could go to the police, but there was nothing like that. All famous figure skaters receive such letters, this is certainly a problem, but for some reason everyone began to feel sorry and swear to love Zhenya, and not to discuss the problem in general. Do you think Yuzuru or Alina doesn't receive such letters? But they just prefer to focus on positive things. I wish Zhenya to do the same.
    Well, that‘s exactly the problem. Obviously Alina and Yuzuru and every other famous person on this earth has to deal with something like that in their life. This doesn‘t make it better and it‘s not the point. Note that Johnny didn‘t even name Zhenya personally in his post. Only when people began to feel worried for her she responded by saying she knows how to deal with it and feels fine.

    “but for some reason everyone began to feel sorry and swear to love Zhenya and not to discuss the problem in general“

    I‘m sorry but no. This is not the case at all. You can voice your support for someone while at the same time raise awareness that this is a widespread problem and is not restricted solely to Zhenya. I think we would all react the same way if this happened to literally anybody else because no one deserves to be treated like that.

    And before you say: “Well, but she showed Johnny the letter.“

    For one thing, we don‘t even know if she did. It‘s entirely possible that she just opened her presents, saw the letter inside, read it and her expression changed. Because no matter how tough you are if you read something like that when you don’t expect it at all (it was among her gifts from fans, I mean come on, that is cruel) your mood will inevitably change for a moment. Maybe her friends picked up on that and were more outraged than she was. And even if she showed it to Johnny/her mom. That‘s the right thing to do. I don‘t think the letter necessarily needed to be published but at least report it because honestly, something like this, hate mail, should not end up in a skater‘s personal gift box.

    “But they just prefer to focus on positive things. I wish Zhenya to do the same.“

    She literally does lol. She thanked Johnny for his friendship but said she‘s absolutely fine and no one should worry. What about this is not focusing on the positive? That she didn‘t just quietly throw the letter away and a friend decided to publish it? Excuse me.

  11. #31
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
    Sorry, if someone tells me to get out of a country because of my ethnicity then what is it?
    I guess I don't think of "Russian" as a race. Or "Japanese," or "Canadian." Different definition, to me.

  12. #32
    ♛✿ Praise the ♥NOBLE-BORN♥ ♥HONEY-BEAR♥ ✿♛ Vandevska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I guess I don't think of "Russian" as a race. Or "Japanese," or "Canadian." Different definition, to me.
    Yeah because it's not a race, it's nationality

    I don't think this person had race in mind

  13. #33
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    And that is why I try to avoid trying to make such distinctions. It is all bigotry. And it is all wrong.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandevska View Post
    Maybe this didn't affect her, but clearly some things did just half a year ago. Look at that lack of confidence during Russian Nationals.

    All of them are very strong, but you never know which drop may overflow their glass.
    Interesting point about which drop may overflow their glass. Hmmm.

    Question now is should we forgive this person if he or she apologizes? I am hoping this person it was very sorry about what he or she did

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott512 View Post
    Interesting point about which drop may overflow their glass. Hmmm.

    Question now is should we forgive this person if he or she apologizes? I am hoping this person it was very sorry about what he or she did
    Even though this whole thing made a huge positive movement happen, I'm sure the person doesn't feel bad. It's a different effect when you say bad things to the person's face.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by icybear View Post
    I dont see why it would be "uncharacteristic" for one Japanese person to do such a thing. A single stereotypical characteristic trait probably doesnt match like 30% of a population. All it took was one crazy fan of another skater with an obsessive and jealous mindset.
    To add in my totally unsolicited opinion, I lived in Japan for nearly a decade and knew quite a few people who were semi-famous enough in their field to receive fanmail, and this kind of thing is not all that uncommon at all, even in Japan. Obsessive fandom culture can be toxic in every country, and all it really takes is a few minutes on an anonymous message board in Japanese to realize that Japan is not immune to that.

  17. #37
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Any group of fans has its trolls. I have been on skating message boards since the 1990's, and I believe that is so.

    However, how people use language gives you some clues to who they might be, so I ask Japanes fans, would "black" be considered a pejorative word/slur/insult for Japanese fans?

    If so, I have not heard that at this point.

  18. #38
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    I love how Johnny has his blade across the letter. I don't know if he intended that to be aggressive/a message, but it sure seems like it to me. Very nice touch that makes him sticking up for a fellow skater even more powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arriba627 View Post
    I keep threatening to have buttons printed up that say BRING BACK CIVILITY. I'd like to send this person one!
    I would buy one of those buttons in a heartbeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Any group of fans has its trolls. I have been on skating message boards since the 1990's, and I believe that is so.

    However, how people use language gives you some clues to who they might be, so I ask Japanes fans, would "black" be considered a pejorative word/slur/insult for Japanese fans?

    If so, I have not heard that at this point.
    I'm not Japanese, but I speak the language fairly well, and it definitely sounds like a Japanese writer to me, especially that "leave skate" part. Figure skating is often referred to as just "figure" or "skate".

    "Black" could be 腹黒い which means wicked or conniving. The characters literally mean "black-stomached." "Worst" is probably 最悪, which means (the) worst (but can also be used with a nuance of "gross/icky").

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Any group of fans has its trolls. I have been on skating message boards since the 1990's, and I believe that is so.

    However, how people use language gives you some clues to who they might be, so I ask Japanes fans, would "black" be considered a pejorative word/slur/insult for Japanese fans?

    If so, I have not heard that at this point.
    I don't know if it's useful for us to speculate on the identity of a specific person who might have left this specific message, because trying to absolve/blame an entire group of people can easily devolve into racist rhetoric.

    That said, it's entirely possible that if the person is a non-native English speaker, their use of the word "black" wasn't meant to refer to race but rather as a clumsy attempt to mean "bad/evil." The word 黒い (kuroi, "black") in Japanese can certainly be used in Japanese to mean "evil." It's entirely possible that a Japanese person was thinking of a Japanese expression like 腹が黒い ("hara ga kuroi," generally translated as "black-hearted" in English, but literally "stomach is black") and thought that the meaning would come across in English if they used the word "black" that way. It's also entirely possible that it was a non-Japanese person referring to race.

    But I think it's also useful to point out that, in scrolling through the comments to Weir's post, it didn't take me long to find people insisting that it "couldn't" be a Japanese person and was obviously a Korean resident in Japan. It's fairly common for Japanese media to try to blame foreigners, specifically Koreans and Chinese people, for any crimes and/or social ills in Japan - which is what I mean about how easily attempts at detective work can turn devolve into a racist blame-game.
    Last edited by champagnerain; 06-13-2019 at 10:05 AM. Reason: typo

  20. #40
    Medalist Manitou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I guess I don't think of "Russian" as a race. Or "Japanese," or "Canadian." Different definition, to me.
    Then reverse the situation and imagine Satoko receiving identical note in the US. How would you call it?

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