2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

*~RussianBleux~* · Sep 18, 2019

mrrice said:
That's a good question. If she has a scratchy landing on the axel, can she tack a 3T onto her Loop later in the program? I thought that was only allowed in the LP. :scratch:

No she can’t do that because the requirement is for the loop jump on its own. Same as the skaters who do 3L (fall, planned 3L+3T) cannot add the 3T to the loop later. It is more rigid than in seniors.

Since the requirement is “a triple triple combination or triple double combination” and a 3A is a triple jump, I am hoping it will just be 3A+COMBO. I don’t see why it wouldn’t unless there is some additional rule that would invalidate the 3A since you are also doing a 2A.

gkelly · Sep 18, 2019

mrrice said:
That's a good question. If she has a scratchy landing on the axel, can she tack a 3T onto her Loop later in the program? I thought that was only allowed in the LP. :scratch:

In a senior SP that would be a valid strategy, especially now that the solo jump no longer requires preceding steps.

In the junior SP, the solo loop is required.

*~RussianBleux~* said:
No she can’t do that because the requirement is for the loop jump on its own. Same as the skaters who do 3L (fall, planned 3L+3T) cannot add the 3T to the loop later. It is more rigid than in seniors.

I assume you mean 3Lz for the combo here and not 3Lo.

Since the requirement is “a triple triple combination or triple double combination” and a 3A is a triple jump, I am hoping it will just be 3A+COMBO.

Yes, any non-loop, non-double axel double or triple jump jump with a bad landing and no second jump would be called as jump+COMBO, earn base value for whatever takeoff and amount of rotation it achieved, and automatic -5 GOE.

Popping to a single axel would invalidate the axel entirely (but adding a double toe on the end would at least earn value for a 2T, minus -5 GOE for a 1A*+2T combo).

I don’t see why it wouldn’t unless there is some additional rule that would invalidate the 3A since you are also doing a 2A.

No, there is no such additional rule.

What she can't afford to do is to double the intended triple axel and then do another double axel. That would lose all credit for the second one.

Double axel and triple axel are two different jumps so there's no problem with doing a double axel in one jump slot and a triple in another.

Same as it would be legal in a junior SP this year to include a double loop in the combination and a triple loop as the solo jump (or vice versa). But risky in case the skater accidentally doubled the intended triple.

*~RussianBleux~* · Sep 18, 2019

Yes I did mean 3Lutz. I was just using it as an example since a lot of skaters do 3Lz+3T as their combination.

Thank you for your explaination and providing additional information on how this could be risky for Alysa. I sure hope she is able to get the combination done.

Is it true that all instances of invalid jump or missing jump in combination receive automatic -5 for the completed jump in the short program?

So for example skater intends to do 3Lz+3T. Skater steps out but does not fall on 3Lz, but since the foot goes down they cannot add a combination. Even though a step out would ordinarily not receive -5 they would get an automatic -5 for missing the combination (+COMBO).

Another one. Skater intends to do 3Lz+3T. Completes 3Lz the pops 3T into 1T. Since the requirement is 3-3 or 3-2 then single jump is invalid. Skater would receive 3Lz+1T* and -5 GOE on the first jump because the second is invalid, even though they technically did a combination and a pop wouldn’t ordinarily result in -5 GOE?

Sjs5572 · Sep 18, 2019

mrrice said:
That's a good question. If she has a scratchy landing on the axel, can she tack a 3T onto her Loop later in the program? I thought that was only allowed in the LP. :scratch:

She cannot. The loop is the required non-combo triple in the junior sp.

Happy Skates · Sep 18, 2019

*~RussianBleux~* said:
No she can’t do that because the requirement is for the loop jump on its own. Same as the skaters who do 3L (fall, planned 3L+3T) cannot add the 3T to the loop later. It is more rigid than in seniors.

Since the requirement is “a triple triple combination or triple double combination” and a 3A is a triple jump, I am hoping it will just be 3A+COMBO. I don’t see why it wouldn’t unless there is some additional rule that would invalidate the 3A since you are also doing a 2A.

You're right that she couldn't just add a 3T to the loop, but what she could do is instead of doing the double axel, do a 3F+3T ( I say 3F because in another version of the sp she has a 3F planned where the 2A is so it would be an easy adjustment). This way, her 3A would become an invalidated axel element, but she could still get credit for a combo and her solo jump, and she'd only be losing the value of a double axel, which isn't too much in comparison.

natsulian · Sep 18, 2019

New report: Alysa Liu jumped a 4S during her practice today. No news on whether or not she’s adding it to her Free.

Happy Skates · Sep 18, 2019

natsulian said:
New report: Alysa Liu jumped a 4S during her practice today. No news on whether or not she’s adding it to her Free.

Well I was not expecting that. I hope some video surfaces!

Lunalovesskating · Sep 18, 2019

natsulian said:
New report: Alysa Liu jumped a 4S during her practice today. No news on whether or not she’s adding it to her Free.

Didn't she say a few weeks ago that she does not want add a different Quad this season to her programs? I guess she changed her mind. She really wants that JGPF title

gkelly · Sep 18, 2019

*~RussianBleux~* said:
Is it true that all instances of invalid jump or missing jump in combination receive automatic -5 for the completed jump in the short program?

Yes.

That's the only mandatory final GOE now.

So for example skater intends to do 3Lz+3T. Skater steps out but does not fall on 3Lz, but since the foot goes down they cannot add a combination. Even though a step out would ordinarily not receive -5 they would get an automatic -5 for missing the combination (+COMBO).

Correct.

In a senior (or novice) SP they might be able to add a combination to the solo jump if it's scheduled later in the program, and take only the -3 to -4 reduction for the step out, but in juniors that doesn't work because of the required solo jump.

Even at other levels adding an unscheduled combo to a later solo jump is risky and the skater could end up with serious errors on both of the jump passes instead of just one.

Another one. Skater intends to do 3Lz+3T. Completes 3Lz the pops 3T into 1T. Since the requirement is 3-3 or 3-2 then single jump is invalid. Skater would receive 3Lz+1T* and -5 GOE on the first jump because the second is invalid, even though they technically did a combination and a pop wouldn’t ordinarily result in -5 GOE?

Yup. Those are the short program rules.

In a freeskate it would be just fine, could conceivably earn non-negative GOE, and would avoid the +REP penalty for a repeated triple.

natsulian · Sep 18, 2019

Happy Skates said:
Well I was not expecting that. I hope some video surfaces!

I hope they’re saving it for the Final OR Junior Worlds. Alysa would have scored around 218-219 CLEAN at Lake Placid:

8 points for the 3A, no fall, and add about 1.25 GOE on the 3A = 10.25 points gained

That’s still 2-3 points behind a Kamila with a fall. With 2-3 points added from the Short with the 3A+3T, she’ll be right on par with Kamila. HOWEVER, should Kamila go clean, she’s looking at a score of 233 (if the PCS carries over from JGP Russia). If Alysa wants to make up for the loss, she’ll need a 4S as it’ll push her over the 230 mark.

Wow! Just talking about this rivalry makes my jaw drop. This isn’t the artist vs athlete anymore, but two beautiful and quite fully packaged skaters going head to head. Best of luck.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 18, 2019

natsulian said:
New report: Alysa Liu jumped a 4S during her practice today. No news on whether or not she’s adding it to her Free.

Alysa has been watching those Gracie videos

Canadianskatingfan · Sep 18, 2019

natsulian said:
New report: Alysa Liu jumped a 4S during her practice today. No news on whether or not she’s adding it to her Free.

Where is this information from?

Happy Skates · Sep 18, 2019

natsulian said:
I hope they’re saving it for the Final OR Junior Worlds. Alysa would have scored around 218-219 CLEAN at Lake Placid:

8 points for the 3A, no fall, and add about 1.25 GOE on the 3A = 10.25 points gained

That’s still 2-3 points behind a Kamila with a fall. With 2-3 points added from the Short with the 3A+3T, she’ll be right on par with Kamila. HOWEVER, should Kamila go clean, she’s looking at a score of 233 (if the PCS carries over from JGP Russia). If Alysa wants to make up for the loss, she’ll need a 4S as it’ll push her over the 230 mark.

Wow! Just talking about this rivalry makes my jaw drop. This isn’t the artist vs athlete anymore, but two beautiful and quite fully packaged skaters going head to head. Best of luck.

Yeah, its so fun to watch both of them continue to up the technical (and artistic) ante each time they compete! But even if she doesn't add the 4S this competition (which she doesn't need by any means to win), I hope someone snags a video of it in practice. Crazy exciting stuff!

Jammers · Sep 18, 2019

natsulian said:
Alysa’s progress in her skating skills has been tremendous. Once she develops even more speed and deep edges, she will mature into a beautiful skater (not to say she isn’t already).

Even though it's just practice footage Alysa's speed going into the 3axel is much improved from US Nationals when she came to an almost stop going into the 3axel. I think she's spent the better part of the last year getting the big jumps but now she knows she needs more power and speed and better skating skills and is working on those things and she's improving at a rapid rate. When this girl puts her mind to something she doesn't back off. :bow:

katymay · Sep 18, 2019

Jammers said:
Even though it's just practice footage Alysa's speed going into the 3axel is much improved from US Nationals when she came to an almost stop going into the 3axel. I think she's spent the better part of the last year getting the big jumps but now she knows she needs more power and speed and better skating skills and is working on those things and she's improving at a rapid rate. When this girl puts her mind to something she doesn't back off.

Looks to me like her StepSeq has improved as well. Whatever her shortcomings (speed) she seems to be addressing them as best she can. And she seems to love to compete, no nerves.

LiamForeman · Sep 18, 2019

Lunalovesskating said:
Didn't she say a few weeks ago that she does not want add a different Quad this season to her programs? I guess she changed her mind. She really wants that JGPF title

And Junior Worlds!!!

frida80 · Sep 18, 2019

Lunalovesskating said:
Didn't she say a few weeks ago that she does not want add a different Quad this season to her programs? I guess she changed her mind. She really wants that JGPF title

I see she’s mentally related to Nathan. He does this all the time.

princessalica · Sep 18, 2019

Gracie just confirmed that she is going to REgionals on her IG takeover of Brad Griffies IG. She was just answering questions, and she definitely is more comfortable with the 4S - says its her favorite assisted quad. And she is really enjoying working on strengthening her legs.

drivingmissdaisy · Sep 18, 2019

princessalica said:
Gracie just confirmed that she is going to REgionals on her IG takeover of Brad Griffies IG.

Great news! So this confirms she intends to compete this season. I wish her all the best!

Sjs5572 · Sep 18, 2019

Wow, all this good news means that Nationals 2022 will be a real slugfest....especially if we don't have three entries for Beijing.

2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

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