Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314
Results 261 to 280 of 280

Thread: 2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

  1. #261
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    148

    3 Not allowed!
    My unsolicited advice for SK/K is to revert to a set of SBS 2As. That would at least give them a few more points in place of a botched or doubled SBS triples.

    For CG/L, there big weakness is the Throw 3Z. I wonder if they would benefit from a throw 3L

  2. #262
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    227
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Has there been any news about the Knierims' withdrawal from 4CC? Are they training again?

  3. #263
    Rinkside Makemi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    50
    Country: United States of America

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by sworddance21 View Post
    Has there been any news about the Knierims' withdrawal from 4CC? Are they training again?
    I read on FSU that the official reason for their withdrawal was "family illness." Apparently USFS later deleted that tweet and re-posted simply that they had withdrawn. Nick and Jackie also touched on it very briefly on the latest IceTalk podcast. As for if they are training... I hope so. They're still on the roster for Worlds at any rate.

  4. #264
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    148

    1 Not allowed!
    It is a good thing that C/J are their training mates. They will be the first to know if the Knierims withdraw and will be ready. In fact, as 1st alternate, they are required to train as if they are going anyway

  5. #265
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,591

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic View Post
    My unsolicited advice for SK/K is to revert to a set of SBS 2As. That would at least give them a few more points in place of a botched or doubled SBS triples.

    For CG/L, there big weakness is the Throw 3Z. I wonder if they would benefit from a throw 3L

    It's a solid option for Knierim/Knierim to revert to a 2A. I don't mind them doing 2 triples and making mistakes (nearly all pairs do), but if their confidence level starts to affect the rest of their skating or their attitudes in general, I might have them do 2A until their mindset is good and strong. Peng/Jin's confidence grew by taking out the second triple and focusing on one, and it's a solid strategy for a pair that's going to rack up a lot of points elsewhere.

    At the same time, the point difference between 2A and, say, 2T-2T is minimal. It might be worth continuing to do the toes since they are indeed capable (see the Skate Canada LP where they did 3T and 3S with minimal errors). My question is why did they change their SP jump from 3S to 3T (with the new Raf technique they may or may not be fully used to yet) when Chris has always preferred 3S and landed them pretty well last season. If they were ever going to revert to 2A, I would think it would be in place of the 3T, but they are doing that jump in the SP too now. Perhaps there are reasons for switching to 3T that we as outsiders are not privy to. Their confidence was high during Nationals, and they need to keep that mindset. If they aren't in that mindset, make adjustments to your content until your mindset is good again. When this team is confident, they can be great. The mind is a powerful thing. It's fine to make mistakes as long as you don't let them get to you. They should also avoid fixating too much on jumps; focus on the entire package and that will also help them stay in a good mindset.


    I've never seen Cain/LeDuc do a throw Lo at any point in their career. Given that their lifts, twist, etc, are weaker than other pairs, I think they will keep pushing for the added difficulty of the throw 3Lz whether they land it or not. In the SP, they have taken out their SBS 3Lo for this season, which is all the more reason I think they will keep trying throw 3Lz.


    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic View Post
    After watching Nationals and 4CCs, I do worry that SK/K and CG/L haven't had any clear momentum this season. Something has happened at some point to both pairs, casting doubt on their ability to deliver at Worlds: Knierims recovered from a poor showing at NHK by delivering good performances at Nationals, only to go south at 4CCs. CG/L had fine performances at GS, then did not perform all that well at Nationals and skipped 4CCs. I think there is a path for them to get 3 spots for the US, but the odds are long: All 3 Russian pairs, 2 Chinese pairs and MT/M are still doing better overall. Then, I noticed the Italians DM/G are getting some mojo back, scoring 194 at Euros. C/J also finished 4th at 4CCs with 196. I really wish the USFSA would've made a decision like Skate Canada after 4CCs
    I'm not really concerned about momentum; virtually all pairs are up-and-down throughout the course of the season. Scores in the mid 190s are very beatable even with bigger mistakes. The Knierims' 4CC's SP score would have been around 70 had they received spin points. They did quite well at Nationals after a rough NHK and have enough experience where momentum shouldn't be an issue.

    I don't think it's fair to expect 3 spots from US pairs this year. There's a chance it could happen, but it would be a monumental achievement and would likely require one of the Russian pairs or MT/M to not skate well, and it doesn't feel right to wish for that. The US almost certainly will retain 2 spots, so the comment about not having faith in US pairs seems too negative, even with the wayward Nationals and Grand Prix events Cain/Leduc had. Two US pairs in the top 10 would be a nice goal.

  6. #266
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    148

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    It's a solid option for Knierim/Knierim to revert to a 2A. I don't mind them doing 2 triples and making mistakes (nearly all pairs do), but if their confidence level starts to affect the rest of their skating or their attitudes in general, I might have them do 2A until their mindset is good and strong. Peng/Jin's confidence grew by taking out the second triple and focusing on one, and it's a solid strategy for a pair that's going to rack up a lot of points elsewhere.

    At the same time, the point difference between 2A and, say, 2T-2T is minimal. It might be worth continuing to do the toes since they are indeed capable (see the Skate Canada LP where they did 3T and 3S with minimal errors). My question is why did they change their SP jump from 3S to 3T (with the new Raf technique they may or may not be fully used to yet) when Chris has always preferred 3S and landed them pretty well last season. If they were ever going to revert to 2A, I would think it would be in place of the 3T, but they are doing that jump in the SP too now. Perhaps there are reasons for switching to 3T that we as outsiders are not privy to. Their confidence was high during Nationals, and they need to keep that mindset. If they aren't in that mindset, make adjustments to your content until your mindset is good again. When this team is confident, they can be great. The mind is a powerful thing. It's fine to make mistakes as long as you don't let them get to you. They should also avoid fixating too much on jumps; focus on the entire package and that will also help them stay in a good mindset.


    I've never seen Cain/LeDuc do a throw Lo at any point in their career. Given that their lifts, twist, etc, are weaker than other pairs, I think they will keep pushing for the added difficulty of the throw 3Lz whether they land it or not. In the SP, they have taken out their SBS 3Lo for this season, which is all the more reason I think they will keep trying throw 3Lz.




    I'm not really concerned about momentum; virtually all pairs are up-and-down throughout the course of the season. Scores in the mid 190s are very beatable even with bigger mistakes. The Knierims' 4CC's SP score would have been around 70 had they received spin points. They did quite well at Nationals after a rough NHK and have enough experience where momentum shouldn't be an issue.

    I don't think it's fair to expect 3 spots from US pairs this year. There's a chance it could happen, but it would be a monumental achievement and would likely require one of the Russian pairs or MT/M to not skate well, and it doesn't feel right to wish for that. The US almost certainly will retain 2 spots, so the comment about not having faith in US pairs seems too negative, even with the wayward Nationals and Grand Prix events Cain/Leduc had. Two US pairs in the top 10 would be a nice goal.
    Regarding the 2As in the LP, I was thinking about the 2A-2T sequence they performed back at 2015 Worlds and prior. Then they could do a solo triple of their choosing. In the SP, all pairs are limited to one solo jumping pass. A good 2A would not be far behind 3T or 3S which is what every team is doing, with just a couple of exceptions. Then, they could do their big twist, throw 3Z, DS and lifts which are world class for them

  7. #267
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,858
    Country: United States of America

    3 Not allowed!
    Congratulations to Ashley and Tim, who (edited) will skate tonight in Lake Placid in the "Dream On" celebration of the 1980 Olympics! https://www.instagram.com/p/B8rj53dlWX-/

    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    I don't think it's fair to expect 3 spots from US pairs this year. There's a chance it could happen, but it would be a monumental achievement and would likely require one of the Russian pairs or MT/M to not skate well, and it doesn't feel right to wish for that. The US almost certainly will retain 2 spots, so the comment about not having faith in US pairs seems too negative, even with the wayward Nationals and Grand Prix events Cain/Leduc had. Two US pairs in the top 10 would be a nice goal.
    I agree. I can't believe people are even talking about 3 spots, when 2018 Worlds had Knierims in 15th place and Stellato/Bartholomay not making the FS.

    Cain-Gribble/Leduc's throw lutz looked brilliant in Nationals practice, and has looked quite good in a number of their earlier competitions. CG/L and K/K have both unfortunately gotten stuck in a ditch this season. I hope these several weeks give them the stability to be done with it. I've noticed most pairs stick with the element in question, in a case like this ... they fight on. Although I agree that the Peng/Jin solution, changing to a double salchow and then making sure the rest of the program is gorgeous, really worked wonders.

    I don't know what other throw jump CG/L would use, since they've only performed -- and probably only train -- th3sal and th3Lz. But if they tried an easier one and it worked, I could see it doing them a lot of good confidence-wise. They've got some spectacular elements too, and I never question the power of skating clean. Also, their stand-out qualities are their commitment to the music, attention to detailed, intense choreography, and beautiful lines. Those qualities are multiplied when errors are small.

    The Knierims have been pretty clear that they believe in sticking with Raf's program for the next two years. I think it was Timothy Goebel who outlined (in TSL interview) the number of times you need to do a jump in competition before you can count on it. But I agree that I'd love to see them go back to the salchow in the SP and the 2A+2T in the FS. And then rely on their sky-high GOEs to carry the program through. Of course, CG/L and K's may both be doing the elements in question well in training. Both teams, the Knierims especially need the boost in confidence of good performances.

    I noticed at nationals that the Knierims had changed their Group3 lift and their Axel Lasso lift back to how they did them formerly. I was so glad. The Axel they were trying early in the season added difficulty and had Alexa upside down and curled around Chris's arm, but it was scary. Also, I've been worried all year when they did the Group3 lift one-handed. Both of those variations could over-stress Chris's wrists, it seems to me. It's a little sad, though, that they've one by one dropped the changes Aljona made, which were intended to take them up a notch and challenge for a world medal. And even though I'd been wanting them to change the lifts back, I thought it dampened the effect of the choreography of the FS. I was surprised I felt that way. But I did love the change they made of switching the squat to a carry movement -- half a head-banger, for lack of a better description. I'm not sure all the changes really worked with the choreography, but it may be I was just used to the other choreo.

    Ashley and Tim's Reverse Lasso lift is looking beautiful. They've made improvements on it over the season, since they debuted it at SLC. Little by little, they improved it at every comp. At nationals it had progressed to including a no-hands change of position, for a few seconds. This is what they do so well ... they steadily make changes to up scores and effectiveness.

  8. #268
    avatar credit: @miyan5605 ice coverage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    14,380
    Country: United States of America

    2 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    Congratulations to Ashley and Tim, who skated yesterday in Lake Placid in the "Dream On" celebration of the 1980 Olympics! https://www.instagram.com/p/B8rj53dlWX-/ ...
    Actually ... the figure skating gala and dinner show are tonight, Feb 18.

    Mentioning in case anyone nearby wants to make a last-minute decision to attend.

    In addition to Ashley/Timothy, Chock/Bates also are performing.




    ETA:

    Good luck to Lu/Mitrofanov, who are on the entry list (on the Dutch federation's website) for this week's Challenge Cup in The Hague. They also are listed on the USFS assignments page.

    https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/s...d-results.aspx

    https://www.schaatsen.nl/media/43511...ame-cc2020.pdf

  9. #269
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,858
    Country: United States of America

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ice coverage View Post
    Actually ... the figure skating gala and dinner show are tonight, Feb 18.

    Mentioning in case anyone nearby wants to make a last-minute decision to attend.

    In addition to Ashley/Timothy, Chock/Bates also are performing.

    How I wish I could go! Lake Placid Arena is worth the trip in itself, as is the village. Then to see two of my favorites ... AshleyTim, and MaddieEvan!

    If you look closely at Ashley's instagram and play it, you can see several of the names of the hockey team, where the sections are named after them. Mark Johnson, Jack O'Callahan, and a few others.

  10. #270
    Medalist ManyCairns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,343

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    How I wish I could go! Lake Placid Arena is worth the trip in itself, as is the village. Then to see two of my favorites ... AshleyTim, and MaddieEvan!

    If you look closely at Ashley's instagram and play it, you can see several of the names of the hockey team, where the sections are named after them. Mark Johnson, Jack O'Callahan, and a few others.
    If I'd heard about this before just now, I would have made plans to go! Sounds like a great show and a trip down memory lane for the likes of me~

  11. #271
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,858
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ManyCairns View Post
    If I'd heard about this before just now, I would have made plans to go! Sounds like a great show and a trip down memory lane for the likes of me~
    Um ... you weren't lucky enough to be there in 1980, were you? You probably would have been only a babe in arms, if that ....

    When I was there in Nov. 2017, I talked to someone who was in high school while the new arena for the '80 olympics was being built. She said they'd look out the windows and see the building going on.

  12. #272
    Medalist ManyCairns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,343

    2 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    Um ... you weren't lucky enough to be there in 1980, were you? You probably would have been only a babe in arms, if that ....

    When I was there in Nov. 2017, I talked to someone who was in high school while the new arena for the '80 olympics was being built. She said they'd look out the windows and see the building going on.
    No, not there in person, I'm just talking about watching on TV! My mom and I loved David Santee! Linda Fratianne was the talk on the school bus -- no kidding -- when she didn't win. Tai and Randy's heartbreak -- and so on and so on. And we loved Scott H., too -- he was still "waiting his turn" in 1980.

  13. #273
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,591

    1 Not allowed!
    3 spots for US pairs isn't at all far-fetched given what the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc have been scoring this season, as well as the current state of the pairs field. However, it's not likely, and it absolutely shouldn't be the focal point of US pairs discussion. They would likely need the Canadians or one of the Russians or Peng/Jin to do poorly, and I'm not wishing for anyone to do poorly. The goal for US pairs should be to skate as well as they can. People who measure their success based on a 3rd spot are out of touch.





    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic View Post
    Regarding the 2As in the LP, I was thinking about the 2A-2T sequence they performed back at 2015 Worlds and prior. Then they could do a solo triple of their choosing. In the SP, all pairs are limited to one solo jumping pass. A good 2A would not be far behind 3T or 3S which is what every team is doing, with just a couple of exceptions. Then, they could do their big twist, throw 3Z, DS and lifts which are world class for them
    Yes, the Knierims also did 2As at 2018 Worlds. The 2A is an option if they need it. In the SP, they will of course keep doing a triple jump, I'm just surprised it has been a 3T this season. If they ask Chris what his preferred jump is, I assume he would say 3S. I believe he even did them better than Alexa last season while she was trying to adjust to all the changes they went through. Things are much better for her now, and I'm sure she would be fine doing 3S in the SP.

    Raf seems to have tinkered the most with their 3T technique/entry. They seem committed to his 2-year plan, which is great, but sometimes they seem to get very upset when they make mistakes, and if there are any signs of that, I would as a coach either water something down, or at least put their 3S back in the SP to give them their best chance at feeling comfortable.


    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    The Knierims have been pretty clear that they believe in sticking with Raf's program for the next two years. I think it was Timothy Goebel who outlined (in TSL interview) the number of times you need to do a jump in competition before you can count on it. But I agree that I'd love to see them go back to the salchow in the SP and the 2A+2T in the FS. And then rely on their sky-high GOEs to carry the program through. Of course, CG/L and K's may both be doing the elements in question well in training. Both teams, the Knierims especially need the boost in confidence of good performances.

    I noticed at nationals that the Knierims had changed their Group3 lift and their Axel Lasso lift back to how they did them formerly. I was so glad. The Axel they were trying early in the season added difficulty and had Alexa upside down and curled around Chris's arm, but it was scary. Also, I've been worried all year when they did the Group3 lift one-handed. Both of those variations could over-stress Chris's wrists, it seems to me. It's a little sad, though, that they've one by one dropped the changes Aljona made, which were intended to take them up a notch and challenge for a world medal. And even though I'd been wanting them to change the lifts back, I thought it dampened the effect of the choreography of the FS. I was surprised I felt that way. But I did love the change they made of switching the squat to a carry movement -- half a head-banger, for lack of a better description. I'm not sure all the changes really worked with the choreography, but it may be I was just used to the other choreo.

    I too was glad to see the Knierims make adjustments to their lifts for Nationals. I was concerned that extremely difficult one-handed hip lift would be too straining on Chris's arm. He's a big strong guy, but he's not quite built like a mack truck like Bruno Massot is. Aljona basically gave the Knierims all the lifts that she did, which were very difficult, but they ended up putting a strain on Chris's wrists and I think his shoulder as well. It's better to change your lifts than to have injuries, and there are of course plenty of other ways to do very difficult lifts.

    It was good for Alexa & Chris to be exposed to all of Aljona's ideas, no matter if they use them or not. Aljona also changed Alexa's throw 3F technique, which really messed with her throw all of last season, and she is just starting now to look herself again with throws. (I do think Aljona helped Alexa with the throw 3Lo though). It was very encouraging how strong their throws were at Nationals. Aljona's way isn't the only way, and I feel this way about Raf as well. If he's making too many changes to the jumps, it's okay to make adjustments.

  14. #274
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,803

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ManyCairns View Post
    No, not there in person, I'm just talking about watching on TV! My mom and I loved David Santee! Linda Fratianne was the talk on the school bus -- no kidding -- when she didn't win. Tai and Randy's heartbreak -- and so on and so on. And we loved Scott H., too -- he was still "waiting his turn" in 1980.
    Fellow David Santee lover here. I had such a crush!

  15. #275
    Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps el henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    10,047
    Country: United States of America

    2 Not allowed!
    Well, as long as we’re off topic....David Santee was da bomb. still remember those blonde curls....

  16. #276
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,803

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    Well, as long as we’re off topic....David Santee was da bomb. still remember those blonde curls....
    Sadly, he’s gotten old like we all have.

  17. #277
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,858
    Country: United States of America

    2 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    3 spots for US pairs isn't at all far-fetched given what the Knierims and Cain/LeDuc have been scoring this season, .... The goal for US pairs should be to skate as well as they can. People who measure their success based on a 3rd spot are out of touch.
    Agree. I've said the same thing, probably in this thread. Here's a chart that I find interesting, especially in light of the discussions about Cain-Gribble/Leduc and Calalang/Johnson. It's the mean scores for this season earned by all pairs at international events. Even counting 4CC, C/J are 13th highest, while CG/L are 8th highest. SK/K are 9th.

    It's also interesting to look at it for comparison of how our 2 pairs going to Worlds come in, scores-wise, to the rest of the pairs going to Worlds.

    https://skatingscores.com/pairs/

  18. #278
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,858
    Country: United States of America

    3 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    It was good for Alexa & Chris to be exposed to all of Aljona's ideas, no matter if they use them or not. Aljona also changed Alexa's throw 3F technique, which really messed with her throw all of last season, and she is just starting now to look herself again with throws. (I do think Aljona helped Alexa with the throw 3Lo though). It was very encouraging how strong their throws were at Nationals. Aljona's way isn't the only way, and I feel this way about Raf as well. If he's making too many changes to the jumps, it's okay to make adjustments.
    True. But there's an idea that while many different systems can be successful, the main thing is to choose one system and follow it. I can see both ways. Over time, it's valuable, I think, to glean things that work for you (one), and incorporate them all into your own system. And since figure skating is art, that shifts the balance for me toward the gleaning idea.

    I can't get over my impression from last year that I felt someone on Aljona's team was giving Chris more attention, in a way that he needed, and he thrived because of it. Maybe it was as simple as technique, but he seemed to be able to express his talent better for a little while, as opposed to just being Alexa's strong partner. Someone on the forum said several weeks ago that Aljona's jump entrances worked better for Chris, but they didn't work as well for Alexa.

    Then I re-watched my favorite James/Cipres program from GPF 2018, "Wicked Game." And either Chris or Nicky from ESP pointed out that Vanessa and Morgan used different jump entrances for the SBS combo ... and they liked the effect. It's true, the jumps looked great, and even though the entrances were different, J/C still jumped in beautiful unison. I can't get it out of my head that Alexa and Chris could do that. I don't see it happening, with Raf's coaching, but it would be better than the current situation IMO. Which is that even at best, Chris is jumping so much earlier he's on his way down by the time Alexa's on the way up.

    Since we're having fun wishing that K/K would switch to a different set of jumps, and CG/L would substitute another throw for the Lutz, I may as well say what I wish about the jump entrances. LOL. I guess that's one of the marks of a fanatic. My true hope is that both teams will skate well and beautifully, and keep skating the program, even if they have a glitch or two.

  19. #279
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    4,858
    Country: United States of America

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by ManyCairns View Post
    No, not there in person, I'm just talking about watching on TV! My mom and I loved David Santee! Linda Fratianne was the talk on the school bus -- no kidding -- when she didn't win. Tai and Randy's heartbreak -- and so on and so on. And we loved Scott H., too -- he was still "waiting his turn" in 1980.
    I only saw Tai and Randy. If the pairs came first, that may be why I couldn't stand to watch anything else. But it was mainly because I was crazy busy at that time.

    I didn't know who David Santee was at the time. But I was at Nationals a few years ago when he served as an escort for someone. Maybe his brother? I don't know, but I remember him entertaining the whole arena, just by his actions. Walking out, he kept stopping to ostentatiously and comically take selfies. He was really cute.

  20. #280
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,803

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    I only saw Tai and Randy. If the pairs came first, that may be why I couldn't stand to watch anything else. But it was mainly because I was crazy busy at that time.

    I didn't know who David Santee was at the time. But I was at Nationals a few years ago when he served as an escort for someone. Maybe his brother? I don't know, but I remember him entertaining the whole arena, just by his actions. Walking out, he kept stopping to ostentatiously and comically take selfies. He was really cute.
    He’s adorable. Youtube has many of his competitions. I can do without the bell bottoms though.

Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Do Not Sell My Personal Information