2019-20 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating
- Thread starter skylark
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someone said check video thread.. what is that? sorry -technical idiot. would love to see their performance. can someone just give me a link?
You have to pay the fee to gain access to the competition threads. Videos are generally not posted out in the regular forum. If they are, they just tend to be blocked faster.
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Re video of Calalang/Johnson FS at Nats:
(I have no idea whether a full vid is in the video thread.)
Good luck at Four Continents to C/J and all of Team USA. :yay:
Sylvia tweeted her excellent fancam of the last 45 seconds:
https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1222267278378618880 (posted Jan 28)
https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1222267278378618880 (posted Jan 28)
(I have no idea whether a full vid is in the video thread.)
Good luck at Four Continents to C/J and all of Team USA. :yay:
I think that's an interesting POV. There is an outside shot at MT/M snatching a bronze at Worlds competing before a hometown crowd, then I/B just need a top 10 finish. But, I/B lag the SK/K and CG/L score-wise this season, were pretty subpar at CAN Nationals and have to prove themselves at 4CCs. Della Monica / Guarise from Italy seem like they are coming back into their own based on Euros, so they will be another team that can make life tough for I/B and the Americans.
As for the Americans, they lag all 3 Russian pairs, both P/J and S/H from China and the top Canadians (I believe J/C from France won't be at Worlds), even if they give us their season's bests at Worlds, it will leave the Americans 7th and 8th, not enough for 3 spots.
I still think both teams can outperform I/B who are new and the recovering Italians or the Germans. BUT, it is also not a stretch to think that Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin and Peng / Jin can be caught by one of SK/K or CG/L. Peng has been dealing with injuries to both feet (but she still gets the job done). Yet, it will take a really great performance by at least one of them and IDK if anyone wants to put a bet on that.
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I like your thinking. That thought has occurred to me too. I hope for the best, a really great performance from one or both of our pairs at Worlds. High hopes don't mean that I'll be disappointed or angry if it doesn't happen, though. I trust K/K and C-G/L will be working hard to put out their best. You never know when the stars will align and make a skate-of-their-lives moment.
I think it's pretty amazing that people are even talking about the possibility of our two pairs teams at Worlds earning 3 spots back this year. Imagine ... last year we only got to send one pair team to Worlds! C-G/L rose to the pressure of expectation and delivered; and now we have 2 teams going. :hap93: And how many years has it been since we sent 3 teams? It really speaks well for how our U.S. Pairs have pushed each other and risen to the occasion over the past few years. Someone attributed a lot of this "pushing" to the two new teams of Cain/Leduc and Stellato/Bartholomay teamed up in April-May 2016. They shook up our pairs program and infused energy.
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Could the Knerims snatch a bronze? Well I guess three sbs triple jumps might be asking a bit much from Chirs? But if T and M continue messing up; PJ are beatable as well as the italians, Germans, Australians who I think might be out, and the third Russian team as well as obviously both Canadians. my guess even if the French competed they would be beatable. The US could get three pairs? IB may not go to worlds but I do agree they are the better hope the Evelyn and Trennt.
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If anyone is still interested in the question of why USFS uses the system of Body of Work to send skaters to Worlds each year, rather than going strictly by Nationals results, I'm copying a portion of gkelly's post in the US Ladies' thread (p. 204, post #4072). Basically, to keep Nationals judging fair and honest. The results mean just that: who performed best at that event ... not influenced by who the judges "want" to send on to Worlds. In the US, Nationals mean something besides just being a qualifier for Worlds, and it clearly means so much to all the skaters who participate. That's something that is so evident when I attend Nationals ... there's just so much exuberance and happiness, and it's not just about who will win. It's more like a Festival than a contest.
The other possibility, that of making skaters "duke it out" with other teams at 4CC or somewhere else, IMO would create a whole 'nother can of worms. And I like for each competition to have its own value and importance.
I really loved Tomoki Hiwatashi's answer in the FS Press Conference. And seeing Calalang/Johnson's reactions and happiness, first at having such a magical skate, and second, at seeing their scores come up, I can't imagine that they feel "wuzrobbed."
The other possibility, that of making skaters "duke it out" with other teams at 4CC or somewhere else, IMO would create a whole 'nother can of worms. And I like for each competition to have its own value and importance.
I really loved Tomoki Hiwatashi's answer in the FS Press Conference. And seeing Calalang/Johnson's reactions and happiness, first at having such a magical skate, and second, at seeing their scores come up, I can't imagine that they feel "wuzrobbed."
However, if a numerical formula is as simple as "The top placing skaters at Nationals will go to Worlds, assuming they are eligible to compete there, in order of finish, with no other considerations" puts the decisions about world team selection solely in the hands of the judges and tech panels at Nationals. That means they would have on their minds not only how the skaters are actually skating on that day, but also which skaters they "want" to send on to Worlds. Which would tempt judges to try to fudge the Nationals results in order to get the skaters considered the best bet for Worlds into the top slots, thus making Nationals itself less of a fair competition. (bolding is mine.)
Suppose you're a less decorated skater who may not be old enough for Worlds, by nationality are not eligible to represent the US this year or if not a citizen not eligible to represent the US now or for years to come, or have not earned necessary minimum tech scores perhaps because you had never yet earned or been able to take advantage of international assignments or never managed to skate well enough when you were sent out. Or maybe you do have the minimum scores but just barely and there are three or more other skaters who have much stronger resumes than you do.
If you have a breakout performance at Nationals, would you prefer/consider it more fair to be scored accurately on what you do and earn a national title or silver or bronze medal and then get passed over for Worlds, or to be intentionally held down in the scoring so that a more favored skater (including one who can go to Worlds if you're not eligible) can take the title/other medal along with a world team spot that automatically goes with it?
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?81121-2019-20-U-S-Ladies-Figure-Skating/page204
Suppose you're a less decorated skater who may not be old enough for Worlds, by nationality are not eligible to represent the US this year or if not a citizen not eligible to represent the US now or for years to come, or have not earned necessary minimum tech scores perhaps because you had never yet earned or been able to take advantage of international assignments or never managed to skate well enough when you were sent out. Or maybe you do have the minimum scores but just barely and there are three or more other skaters who have much stronger resumes than you do.
If you have a breakout performance at Nationals, would you prefer/consider it more fair to be scored accurately on what you do and earn a national title or silver or bronze medal and then get passed over for Worlds, or to be intentionally held down in the scoring so that a more favored skater (including one who can go to Worlds if you're not eligible) can take the title/other medal along with a world team spot that automatically goes with it?
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?81121-2019-20-U-S-Ladies-Figure-Skating/page204
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Honestly I am used to it. Of course USFS doesn’t have Olympic trials but USA Gymnastics does. You go and compete at trials and the selection committee goes into a room and unless your name is Simone Biles you sit and chew your nails or whatever you do when you’re nervous and wait while they take their sweet time selecting a team. You wait and you wait and you wait and eventually they come out of that room and announce a team, which most likely won’t be the top 4 (back up to 5 next Olympiad thank goodness). Back in 92 when Kim Kelley got left off the team I was angry. But we have better teams because of it. And the results have shown it is a better way to select gymnastics teams than taking the first x however many a team is composed of that year. Say Nathan Chen was sick as a dog and finished 4th at Nationals. I think you’d have to be crazy to leave him off your world/Olympic/whatever team.
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A very candid interview from the Knierims:
http://figureskatersonline.com/news...d-chris-knierim-were-fighting-for-our-dreams/
They seriously considered retirement after the Grand Prix season this year, but decided to continue on to Nationals.
http://figureskatersonline.com/news...d-chris-knierim-were-fighting-for-our-dreams/
They seriously considered retirement after the Grand Prix season this year, but decided to continue on to Nationals.
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I think we have to wait and see if the Knerims can be consistent at 4cc and worlds. Doing well at Nats is a huge boost but sometimes it also can just prolonging things - I have no idea what is the case here. I do agree pairs skating in the US will be interesting they could do really really well Maybe even a bronze at worlds but they could also both be out of the top ten at worlds.
Among US skaters, the Knierims are definitely some of the most candid, almost to a fault. It's quite sad that a pair with this much ability thought so lowly of themselves, and fortunately they found the strength to push through and do very well at Nationals. They will make mistakes, like almost every pair does, but as long as they don't implode, they can score very well at every competition, including Worlds. Their scoring potential is high, and the field hasn't been crazy deep since 2018, so the US's results should be fine.
All skaters have feelings of wanting to quit at times, but the Knierims' emotions seem to swing from really high to really low at the drop of a hat. Alexa's confidence has very noticeably grown this season, and they were on a high after Nebelhorn Trophy & Skate Canada. They seemed very committed to making a run at another Olympics. Then they went to NHK and had some silly mistakes which killed their result (botched lift, missed death spiral, etc) and all of a sudden they were contemplating quitting immediately? They need to relax a bit, enjoy the day-to-day and not be so hung up on the results. They will skate better if the future of their career isn't riding on the result of every event. You can be down and frustrated after a rough event, but it's best to stay a little more even-keeled emotionally. Then they went on to do great at US Nationals-- Alexa in particular looked fantastic-- and it's hard to believe this is the same girl who was wondering if they were a joke a couple months prior. She's way too talented for these types of thoughts.
If I were Meno & Sand, I would bring them in for a meeting after every event to dissect their programs and lay out a plan of what needs to be worked on, what needs adjusting, etc, so they aren't dwelling on the result as much. Their quotes give an indication that they could use someone to talk to after events, and more positive reassurance. The US media/clueless fans sometimes knock US pair skaters to an unfair extent, and it seems to get in Alexa's head at times. Some of these skaters would benefit from no internet, but it's a part of today's culture.
I get that injuries are frustrating, but sometimes making adjustments helps; you don't have to quit. Chris has had wrist/arm injuries lately, which aren't very common even among pair skaters. Some of the new lifts they've been doing the past couple seasons are extremely difficult and perhaps just too straining. They did change a couple lifts for Nationals, so maybe he can stay healthier on that front.
When you switch coaches and add a jump coach who has a somewhat radical approach to jumping (Raf), it's not all going to go well immediately and it might need further tweaking. They also switched their SP jump to a 3T after having always done 3S, which is puzzling. I actually thought Chris's 3S was one of their bright spots from last season, but now for some reason, they've switched their SP jump to 3T, and their solo jump is different both programs. I always have patience when they try new things because I know how good they can potentially be, but it would be nice if they had patience with themselves too.
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I read in a different article a few weeks ago that they had to sell all the classic cars he owned, and Alexa said it broke her heart because tinkering on the Camero was Chris's go-to activity. Those were definitely not her words, but that was the effect, that it was something he did daily for relaxation.
I've been thinking a lot about that, and I think it would be enough to de-stabilize anyone. When I broke my wrist a few years ago and my arm was in a cast for 2 months, I couldn't play the piano, and I got a little depressed. There was a connection, because playing the piano is something I love and it's good for my mental health, it's non-verbal, it's something I do with my hands and my emotions rather than my brain. All of that, it seems like would apply to Chris and his tinkering on his classic cars. Plus, he's done it for so many years that not doing it would be like he was missing some vital piece of him. I mean, I know he did it so they could continue to train and could afford to live in southern California. It was a huge sacrifice.
Anyway, my heart goes out to him. Especially since he likely perceives Alexa as being the stronger pairs skater. Having said that, they both have a lot of heart and soul and dedication. Also, they may get the mistakes out of their system and have two great skates at Worlds. I hope so.
Chris seemed to buy and sell cars like hot wheels, so I don't know how attached he was to any of them. He has a motorcycle, so they can't be doing too badly. I know people who walk to work because they can't afford even one car, so they will survive. They are lucky they drive to the same place every day. In the past, I was somewhat concerned that bending over cars wasn't good for his body, even if it was a hobby that was therapeutic for him, so I don't think it's a bad thing if he stops the manual car labor for a while and does something less taxing. Video games and their dogs seem to be his relaxation outlets now. I honestly don't know how many people can afford or have time for a car hobby, and maybe it's good to wean him off of it. I wish these skaters were able to focus on training without having to worry so much about how to pay for it though.
Alexa and Chris posted Instagram stories linking to that article, so they know it's out there, and it's not great timing to read an article about you questioning your abilities earlier in the season right before you have to go out and compete a program. Hopefully they got some nerves out today and will at least be calmer in the LP. That missed spin was just a random fluke which made the score look worse than it was. There's no reason why they can't do well against all these top teams at 4CC. On paper they are better than Kirsten & Michael. It's a confidence/comfort thing with them and figuring out this Raf technique that may or may not be the best for them. They have a long time before Worlds.
Well fluke mistake on the spins aside, all things considered not a bad outing for the US pairs today. Also kudos to Chris and Alexa for still scoring reasonably well, even with a missing element. I do have to say that watching them skate is nerve-wracking because you never know which element they are going to miss. (I stand by my observation that Tarasova/Morozov have become the russian Knierims 
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Also since the beginning of the season their SP has reminded me of another program, but I couldn't figure out which one. Well I found... I don't know if it was conscious or not but it's basically an updated version of Gordeeva&Grinkov's The Man I Love. Which all things considered is a great program to borrow from.
The more I watch Calalang/Johnson, the more I like them. Honestly I do find their programs boring, and I really dislike their music in the free, but they have the technical goods, and Jessica has such beautiful lines, it's a pleasure to watch.
Kayne/O'Shea are definitely not my type of skaters but their Clair de Lune SP is a very good program.
)Also since the beginning of the season their SP has reminded me of another program, but I couldn't figure out which one. Well I found... I don't know if it was conscious or not but it's basically an updated version of Gordeeva&Grinkov's The Man I Love. Which all things considered is a great program to borrow from.
The more I watch Calalang/Johnson, the more I like them. Honestly I do find their programs boring, and I really dislike their music in the free, but they have the technical goods, and Jessica has such beautiful lines, it's a pleasure to watch.
Kayne/O'Shea are definitely not my type of skaters but their Clair de Lune SP is a very good program.
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Kudos to Jessica Calalang and Brian Johnson for their excellent SP performance at 4CC! I thought Jessica looked nervous as they took their starting position. If she was, she got over it beautifully after making a comparatively small error on the SBS jump. After that, she and Brian skated really well, and I thought they showed a lot of determination to make this event a Good Follow-Up to their great performance at US Nationals. Well done!
You're right (about K/K's SP to At Last.} I find the program overly schmaltzy and a bit smug, but when they perform it like they did at Nationals, all that goes out the window.
Agree with all this. I hadn't realized that to me as well, their programs a bit boring. But again, when C/J perform their FS like they did at Nationals, that feeling goes out the window. The power of a clean, beautifully skated performance. A really great program puts the shine on it, and has the doubled effect of making a skate more enjoyable and satisfying on a gut level.
For sure. Charlie White deserves a lot of credit, and Clair de Lune suits them perfectly. I only wish Tarah and Danny were wearing their gorgeous blue SP costumes from the fall for it.
I disagree. For Chris to have to stand there for what seemed like an eternity while Alexa did the spin was about as disruptive as a mistake gets, and having it happen right after the SBS jumps were such a mess on both their parts increased the negative impact. But their good elements got good GOE and that held their scores up.
Good luck to Jessica and Brian, Alexa and Chris, and Tarah and Danny for their 4CC free skates coming soon!
You're right (about K/K's SP to At Last.} I find the program overly schmaltzy and a bit smug, but when they perform it like they did at Nationals, all that goes out the window.
Agree with all this. I hadn't realized that to me as well, their programs a bit boring. But again, when C/J perform their FS like they did at Nationals, that feeling goes out the window. The power of a clean, beautifully skated performance. A really great program puts the shine on it, and has the doubled effect of making a skate more enjoyable and satisfying on a gut level.
For sure. Charlie White deserves a lot of credit, and Clair de Lune suits them perfectly. I only wish Tarah and Danny were wearing their gorgeous blue SP costumes from the fall for it.
I disagree. For Chris to have to stand there for what seemed like an eternity while Alexa did the spin was about as disruptive as a mistake gets, and having it happen right after the SBS jumps were such a mess on both their parts increased the negative impact. But their good elements got good GOE and that held their scores up.
Good luck to Jessica and Brian, Alexa and Chris, and Tarah and Danny for their 4CC free skates coming soon!
Oh I agree, standing there through an entire spin is highly disruptive and cost them both the value of the element as well as some PCS. I should have worded that sentence differently. I was referring more to the fact that it was a fluke slip before the element really even started, something silly that ended up costing them a lot of points. They can miss the jump and still hover around 70 points, but the lack of spin really knocked their score out of their usual range.
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Somehow my mind glided over this when I read your post before. But my point above (and I don't know whether you read my post or not, since you were quoting moonvine), was that what he misses is probably the activity of tinkering, which is a great mental de-compressor, the way piano playing is for me. Not that he was overly attached to the cars, although in the previous article it sounded like the Camero was special.
That's just it! There's never any reason they can't .... fill in the blank! Although I don't agree that even on paper they're better than K&M.
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Jessica and Brian really impress me. she has wonderful line and stretch and confidence. They are the future; near future - probably will take over no. 1 in US unless the Knerims can get consistent The Canadians have had trouble improving technically and artisstically and the Knerims have the marriage magic. jessica and brian are developing nicely. I beileve one of the American officials said the gaol was to beat MT M as it was felt they could match them easily. MT M I thought might add a more difficult throw Cain and Leduc have potential too. I wonder though depending after worlds if this could be the Knerims swan song. It will be two seasons before Beijing - this is the time you go for it or retire. Not too many will quit with one year from Beijing. Several years ago I thought the Knerims with their twists and lifts were going to win a world bronze. they have the experience they just need to do it though they could be a one time world bronze ie Dube and Davison and numerous other teams.
Anyone knows why the Knierims WD? I hope it's nothing to serious. Are they still going to worlds? If not who's replacing them?
Also, I'm starting to get really excited about Calalang /Johnson's prospects. Fingers crossed they will get better programs next season, because the pair has potential. I also find them quite unique among the current US pairs. Jessica with her long limbs and elegant lines, also their lifts and twist are more lyrical and I don't want ot say refined, because that would seem like I don't find the other US pairs refined. They are, in their own way, but C/J are perhaps the ones with the most "classical look"? Imho, they have that "russian pairs skater" feel.
Not sure about the prospect of the US pairs at Worlds tho. Keeping their two spots, is more than likely, but I don't really see one of them medaling. Getting the third spot also seems a bit of a reach to me. We still have a month to go, but as it stands, I don't think there's a US pair that's capable of overcoming MTM, or Peng/Jin.
MTM especially are having a great season, made the GPF. Okay they had a bad FS at 4CC, because Marinaro again made a stupid mistake, but their SP has always been pretty solid so far, they are getting good PCS from the judges, and will be skating on home ice.
Also, I'm starting to get really excited about Calalang /Johnson's prospects. Fingers crossed they will get better programs next season, because the pair has potential. I also find them quite unique among the current US pairs. Jessica with her long limbs and elegant lines, also their lifts and twist are more lyrical and I don't want ot say refined, because that would seem like I don't find the other US pairs refined. They are, in their own way, but C/J are perhaps the ones with the most "classical look"? Imho, they have that "russian pairs skater" feel.
Not sure about the prospect of the US pairs at Worlds tho. Keeping their two spots, is more than likely, but I don't really see one of them medaling. Getting the third spot also seems a bit of a reach to me. We still have a month to go, but as it stands, I don't think there's a US pair that's capable of overcoming MTM, or Peng/Jin.
MTM especially are having a great season, made the GPF. Okay they had a bad FS at 4CC, because Marinaro again made a stupid mistake, but their SP has always been pretty solid so far, they are getting good PCS from the judges, and will be skating on home ice.
