Handheld jumping Harness.

What do you think about the handheld jumping harness ?
My 9 years daughter’s double toe loop is always under rotated. For almost six months there has been no progress and she is starting to get discouraged. Her coach offered to use the handheld jumping Harness. Do you actually think it can help her because she’s really fed up ?

I'm an adult, but I find our handheld harness gives me that little bit of confidence and help to rotate toe loops. Problem is I can't do it off harness yet so beware of it becoming a crutch for her.

If her coach is suggesting the use of the harness, it's worth a try. Harnesses can be super helpful for some skaters and the opposite for others. I know a couple of skaters who after a week or two on the harness managed to land jumps off the harness they'd been struggling on for months because it gave them the confidence to find their timing. I tried the harness and it set my axel back a year I hated it so much. You won't know which kind of skater your daughter is until you give it a try.

FWIW, I saw an elite coach using one when I visited a big, famous rink. The skater looked about 9, too.

At our rink a couple of the younger (and stronger) coaches use them with some of their smaller (and some bigger) skaters all the time. Mine has only been in the big harness, and not that often.

silver.blades said:

If her coach is suggesting the use of the harness, it's worth a try. Harnesses can be super helpful for some skaters and the opposite for others. I know a couple of skaters who after a week or two on the harness managed to land jumps off the harness they'd been struggling on for months because it gave them the confidence to find their timing. I tried the harness and it set my axel back a year I hated it so much. You won't know which kind of skater your daughter is until you give it a try.

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silver.blades - I am sincerely curious why you feel this way. Could you please elaborate a little more?

For myself, I recall that I could easily land a couple axels immediately after I got out of the harness. I still had "the feeling" of landing the axel while in the harness. But after those few successful landings I'd lose the feeling and have to go back to the harness to regain it.
I do feel the harness is a good tool and worth a try.

I also struggled with the harness (put my 2t back several months) because I found the timing totally different than on my own

Thanks for your answers. I
Of course she's going to try it. I just wanted to know if this could really help her. This is the first time she’s used it. The coach never uses it.
I’m gonna cross my fingers and hope it works.[emoji2][emoji106]

Manue93370 said:

Thanks for your answers. I
Of course she's going to try it. I just wanted to know if this could really help her. This is the first time she’s used it. The coach never uses it.
I’m gonna cross my fingers and hope it works.[emoji2][emoji106]

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<<Emphasis added.>> That's not good. I have no experience with it, but it has become popular at my rink. Not any random coach, though, uses it; only a couple of specialized jump coaches who are experienced with it: other coaches refer their skaters to the jump coaches for harness sessions.

Yes, unless the coach isn't skilled with using it.

You haven't mentioned off ice training and conditioning. Can your daughter rotate a clean double off-ice? It doesn't just happen. Yoga and ballet will help but you should relax here. In the elite rink my daughter skated at the harness was more usually brought out for double axel training. How many other skaters does your coach have who jump a clean double lutz and loop? What does her sit spin look like? That is usually a great indicator of a good coach.

Shani said:

You haven't mentioned off ice training and conditioning. Can your daughter rotate a clean double off-ice? It doesn't just happen. Yoga and ballet will help but you should relax here. In the elite rink my daughter skated at the harness was more usually brought out for double axel training. How many other skaters does your coach have who jump a clean double lutz and loop? What does her sit spin look like? That is usually a great indicator of a good coach.

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Can you explain a little more about the part of sit spin? Why sit spin in particular?

Because it requires the athlete to have good body control and strength on a circular rotation and requires a lot of strength for the skater to rotate around one axis without wobbling off. A skater rotating a good double or triple will rotate around a vertical axis also and not dip forward or back either which will reduce the quality. A good coach will build body strength and off ice conditioning in a training plan. A skater cannot do a level 5 spin without understanding a vertical axis or core strength.

Shani said:

You haven't mentioned off ice training and conditioning. Can your daughter rotate a clean double off-ice? It doesn't just happen. Yoga and ballet will help but you should relax here. In the elite rink my daughter skated at the harness was more usually brought out for double axel training. How many other skaters does your coach have who jump a clean double lutz and loop? What does her sit spin look like? That is usually a great indicator of a good coach.

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her spins are beautiful. She practices a lot of gymnastics and she is very flexible and it helps her a lot for spins. Off ice no problem, her double toe is clean.

Shani said:

Because it requires the athlete to have good body control and strength on a circular rotation and requires a lot of strength for the skater to rotate around one axis without wobbling off. A skater rotating a good double or triple will rotate around a vertical axis also and not dip forward or back either which will reduce the quality. A good coach will build body strength and off ice conditioning in a training plan. A skater cannot do a level 5 spin without understanding a vertical axis or core strength.

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That's a good point and thank you.

But I do see skaters with good spins but when they jump, their axis is tilted left and right.

sandraskates said:

silver.blades - I am sincerely curious why you feel this way. Could you please elaborate a little more?

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I hated the feel of the harness. I'm very sensitive to things that are tight and pulling on my body and the harness drove me crazy. It threw my timing off and I couldn't get it back. It probably didn't help either that I'm a large skater (about 5'8'', 150lbs when I was on the harness) and my coach was about half my size.

I agree with those that have said an experienced "harness technician" should be the one to use the harness with your daughter.

It takes more than just brute strength to use the harness correctly. The "handheld" one (or as my rink refers to it, the "fishpole" harness) requires some technique and knowledge on the part of the user for it to be effective. I would ask the coach about their experience using the harness as even an experienced coach may not be experienced in harness work.

At our rink, there is one coach who is the designated harness coach and its not something that's just passed around for anyone to use. In fact, my understanding is that it is considered a "skill" that some rinks will seek out if they lose a coach that has harness experience.

As for people who don't like the harness - some of it may be personal preference and some of it may have been who was operating the harness. I saw a coach using it in an almost Peter Pan-like fashion, lifting the little skater improbably high and for a long duration off the ice, and it didn't appear to help the skater either rotate or get a spatial awareness of the jump because it was clear the skater wasn't really doing the work. When my skater has worked in the harness, it was explained to me that they were using it with his axel to prevent both a "bad" fall during the learning process and to give just a "tiny" bit of help, if necessary, to help build confidence and learn the timing. In other words, consider it like "spotting" by a coach in gymnastics - there to provide safety and physical support where needed to learn the skill safely.

If its been a year working on 2T, I'd say give it a shot so long as you are confident in the coach's experience with the harness.

ETA: I think its normal for skaters to have jumps off-ice first but not yet be able to do them on-ice. When you think about it, the technique is not *exactly* the same and you are usually wearing sneakers off ice. My skater can do a 2T off ice pretty well but can't even come close on ice yet.

There is a lot of difference between a harness and a pole harness. The coaches on both need a lot of experience but for a pole harness there is the additional requirement of coach strength. A pole harness allows the coach to pace the skater so they can jump on the curve. If your child is 9 and motivated to skate you might want to relax and see if she has the internal motivation to hit the jump before the harness. If she has the internal drive to hit the jump herself then you continue. Skating can be a substantially expensive sport.

SmallAminal said:

ETA: I think its normal for skaters to have jumps off-ice first but not yet be able to do them on-ice. When you think about it, the technique is not *exactly* the same and you are usually wearing sneakers off ice. My skater can do a 2T off ice pretty well but can't even come close on ice yet.

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This varies for skaters as well though. Using the edge can be a major part of making a jump work and can be very difficult without it. I have only ever landed a 2S off ice, but I had all my doubles minus the axel on ice and I know others who were the same.

I personally love the pole harness, but I am an adult who struggles with mental blocks, so I'm not much like your daughter
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If your daughter is already doing double toeloops (albeit under-rotated) and isn't afraid of going for them, I'm not sure how a harness would help. . . UNLESS her coach is going to use the harness to prevent her from having bad falls as they experiment with some radically different technique. The downside of the harness is that it automatically corrects under-rotateions by pulling the skater a little taller in the air and giving her a little more time before landing (even if the coach is trying not to pull at all). That improvement does not carry over once the skater is on her own again unless it also included some sort of technique change on her part.