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Thread: What makes music cuts good or bad?

  1. #61
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    Rika Kihira's free will be a mix of 7 songs. I think that will be a program with most music cuts in figure skating history. And I'm so waiting to see how that will look like

  2. #62
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    The music cuts is a problem to me when you know the music pieces and dont understand the connection.
    Zagitova is skating to The Feeling begins and the theme from the movie Lawrence of Arabia. More than the "exotic" feeling it has nothing to do with Cleopatra I heard she is portraying

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusHalley View Post
    For me too many music cuts feel bit forced and it feels calculated, even to a point that it feels not that moves were created for the music, but they searched for music to fit into a choreo that existed previously. (I kinda fear Rika's 8 songs long program for this reason). There is not enough time to create mood, to enjoy the music, it feels like song clips, like those Amazon previews.

    It sure can be done tastefully and succesfully, blending more songs together, but it should feel like a remix, rather than collage.
    A hundred people, a hundred tastes. I hate remixes and I liked it exactly the way it was done.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vladimir View Post
    I'm pretty sure that most of the people would appriciate opinion of expirienced British Eurosport commentators more than your opinion, or mine, or random opinions of random people on the skating forum.
    Oh believe me, one of the few things I've learned in life is that people appreciate experienced and expert opinions... that they agree with.

    Rationalise it as we all do, but an expert is never as suspect where his expertise simply says something we don't want to hear.....

  5. #65
    Tripping on the Podium eppen's Avatar
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    Is the number of pieces of music decisive in making the cut good or bad? I think that the way they are put together and what they contribute to the content of the program is far more important. I was thinking of some of the programs that I have liked in recent years that have been put together of bits and pieces, usually more than 3, some with music from different sources.

    Ashley Wagner's Moulin Rouge - 3 longer sections forming the main body and 1 short piece at the beginning, all from the OST. Put together the way they have been creates 4 different moods - the short intro is sad and melancholy, ending with the 2A and change into the energetic and powerful 2nd part which transitions into a sad and slow third. She pics up the pieces to end with Shos Must Go On, again powerful and strong. The pieces of music and their lyrics have been used very cleverly to create a storyline and emotional arc that you can follow in the choreo as well - Ashley is also capable to change instantly from supersoft to powerful.

    Virtue & Moir's Moulin Rouge is built on two longer pieces with a short intro, all from the OST. Also here there is a storyline - the love and jealousy of Roxanne and somewhat melancholy love for Come What May (they did have to ditch the death scene...). Again, the music and lyrics were used to create moods and a storyline which the choreo follows and the skaters are able to match the mood changes, again great switches from sharp and powerful to soft and lyrical.

    Evgenia Medevedeva's 2016-7 SP, the one about growing up. Two pieces of music that (AFAIK) have nothing to do with each other - they are stylistically similar, though. Both are melancholy but the end perhaps even more so matching the sadness of leaving childhood behind that is very well put into the choreo and expressed by Evgenia.

    Javier Fernández's last four years were loaded with good, very good and excellent programs. They are usually similar because there is a storyline there, or at least an idea what the whole thing is about. Black Betty is about a woman - one song cut masterfully so that all the rather boring bits of the original song have been left out. Also the first verse with its somewhat questionable content has been left out. One idea supported by the music, lyrics, movement and the performance. Barber of Seville is similar - has 3-4 bits from the opera, with the Factotum aria cut severely but yet in such a way that the lyrics make sense (if you know Italian and listen to them). It is about Figaro as the busybody barber of Seville and I think that came out pretty clearly. Malaguena is all about style, so no storyline or even emotional arc there. Two different recordings put together in such a way that not everybody actually probably realized it. Guys and Dolls has one of the themes of the musical in it, gambling. The beginning is from the OST of the movie, mostly from the overture, but some other bits as well. The Frank Sinatra sung Luck be a Lady comes from a different recording (Marlon Brando sang the original and not very well, has to be said). Again, a simple main idea and every element supports it. Elvis was IMO the only miss in his back catalogue. It could have been 3 random songs by which ever performer. There might be a storyline, but you can't really read it very clearly from the whole. But the programs of the last season were the most ambitious. Modern Times played out the moods and the main story line of the whole move in 2 min 40 s... Original OST used, I think 4-5 different pieces in the order they were in the movie. Different moods from melancholia and madness, to love and uncertain hopeful futures. Man of La Mancha was built similarly, 5 different pieces, from different recordings also. The intro sets the Spanish mood, followed by also a vocal declaration of the theme ("Don Quixote de la Mancha!") so that no one is left in the dark. Then the knight errant in action which is followed by wooing of Dulcinea and the end build-up with the Impossible Dream. Changing moods, emotions and all done with the top difficulty when it comes to male figure skating.

    The slow parts were also discussed in the posts above. They are certainly used for giving the skater a break, but, again in Javi's case, in his two last FS programs, the slow part contains also the second jump passes - or rather the third quad, 3A and at least one other jump. In Elvis he does Fever and in Man of La Mancha, the slow part is about wooing Dulcinea. I don't know who else could do the wooing choreo and then turn around and throw a 3A?!

    So, it is really the whole that counts, not just number or length of pieces of music. All parts have to work together to make a good program!

    E

  6. #66
    GS Supporter PaulE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Of course every figure skating program ought to end with the Lone Ranger.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwnqYkMRSyg&t=2m54s
    And wonderfully appropriate for a skater from Switzerland.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vladimir View Post
    Rika Kihira's free will be a mix of 7 songs. I think that will be a program with most music cuts in figure skating history. And I'm so waiting to see how that will look like
    I thought there was an ice dance team (I want to say Hubbel/Donahue but my memory escapes me) that had a stupid number of songs (probably more than 7) crammed into their "hip-hop" program. They ended up paring it down after some feedback from the judges that it was too hectic feeling.

  8. #68
    Tripping on the Podium VenusHalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vladimir View Post
    Rika Kihira's free will be a mix of 7 songs. I think that will be a program with most music cuts in figure skating history. And I'm so waiting to see how that will look like
    And I am dreading it. Along with that high and mighty name of the program, I am afraid that my love for Rika will not prevent me from cringing right out of my skin.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmallAminal View Post
    I thought there was an ice dance team (I want to say Hubbel/Donahue but my memory escapes me) that had a stupid number of songs (probably more than 7) crammed into their "hip-hop" program. They ended up paring it down after some feedback from the judges that it was too hectic feeling.
    It was like playing name that tune. The whole program worked much better once it focused on fewer changes. It ended up being campy fun.

  10. #70
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    Here are two 1990s programs that use several unrelated music cuts in purposeful ways:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oywo2GOJUvg&t=2m15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyI34OvQ4tQ

    How do you think they work?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vladimir View Post
    Which one? I can state why i think their opinion is more valuable for the exact topic, named 'why Danil's music arrangement is good/bad for Alina's skating program':
    1) because they have more knowledge on figure skating, not just because they've seen and commenting on all of POTO programs in last 20 years, but because one of them was competitive ice dancer himself
    2) because they are more objective - nor they had national/continental bias - it was a comment made at Europeans without British skaters being in the mix for top placement, nor bias for any particular style of skating - during their commentating years they were praising different type of skating styles and skating programs, which made them open-minded and more sincere
    3) they restrain themselfes of making personal preferences toward something, except that was clearly stated (with the statement 'it is (not) my cup of tea') and which was not stated in the case of Alina's program
    Now, what are the expertises od random figure skating fan on that exact topic?
    The main point I was trying to make is that art, and I consider music cuts as such, is in the eye of the beholder/listener, a matter of individual perception, and can't be objectively measured. We can agree that a skater's movements/expressions match the music, but that doesn't tell anything about how individuals feel about the music itself. It is fair enough if you consider BESP uncles' assessment to have more weight than the words of an armchair fan. The sole reason I reacted to your post was your claim that such an opinion has more weight, which is your view, but phrased as a universal truth. Had you posted an 'I think' or 'for me' there, I would never have replied.
    Btw you keep bringing up Alina, but I can assure you I am not on a campaign against her. The same way I felt about her POTO, I feel about many Les Mis cuts out there.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Here are two 1990s programs that use several unrelated music cuts in purposeful ways:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oywo2GOJUvg&t=2m15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyI34OvQ4tQ

    How do you think they work?
    The differing cuts in both programs work well with the costumes to develop a theme. I liked each program when they were first performed and continue to like them.

  13. #73
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    I totally hated Kolyada's music cuts in his FP last season, it kept repeating the Toreador bit from Carmen in a very jarring way. Also did not like the fact that he looked miserable the entire season. This is a skater I used to like. Hope he looks happier this season!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Vladimir View Post
    Rika Kihira's free will be a mix of 7 songs. I think that will be a program with most music cuts in figure skating history. And I'm so waiting to see how that will look like
    Quote Originally Posted by VenusHalley View Post
    And I am dreading it. Along with that high and mighty name of the program, I am afraid that my love for Rika will not prevent me from cringing right out of my skin.
    Turned out fantastic, me thinks.
    A fine example of really good cuts!

    What a stunning program!

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by enzet View Post
    Turned out fantastic, me thinks.
    A fine example of really good cuts!

    What a stunning program!
    Yeah, i found it fine. But that's me. If skating is good, music cannot distracted me from it

  16. #76
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    Kurt Browning's "Casablanca" is a prime example of how a compound of multiple music cuts from different sources can be not only coherent, but also magically compelling. I was surprised to learn years later that the heart-wrenching and inspiring section that Browning so perfectly embodied in his masterpiece did not originate from Casablanca, but from another movie called La Strada. And as far as I know it was that historic program of the Canadian that has popularized the particular musical segment today.

    https://youtu.be/Y_y-FPJQjcc

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