Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567
Results 121 to 131 of 131

Thread: Ideas for how to rescore figure skating?

  1. #121
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8,123

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
    What is stopping everyone from doing perfect spins, then? Displaying wonderful edges and beautiful control? Cause, ya know, it’s so darn easy
    Of course, many things are hard. I think that the system rewards those elements roughly proportional to their difficulty, taking into account risk.

    There are a lot of things I don't like watching either, but are (and probably should be) rewarded. For example, I like the pacing of some of the 6.0 programs better, when skaters weren't penalized for periods of less difficult choreography. While I think that can make for a better overall performance, if someone is doing more difficult choreography and transitions, that has to be rewarded whether it makes me enjoy the program less or not.

  2. #122
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    212

    0 Not allowed!
    A good solution would be to bring back compulsory figures. That would weed out the less skilled skaters and then we can reward the risk taking skaters that want to advance the sport out of the group of truly skilled skaters that remain after the figures. If it bores people, just don't televise the figures portion. Hardly any skating is televised live anymore anyway. That way everyone is happy, jump fans and skating fans.

  3. #123
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    6,765

    1 Not allowed!
    Or have a skating skills competition phase that is more fun to watch than school figures and more relevant to freeskating skating skills (i.e., edges and turns performed at speed on the whole ice surface, probably to music), but without jumps and spins.

    Maybe something similar to a solo Rhythm Dance, with a required pattern and a leveled step sequence, plus a couple of other edge-based skills.

    Whether interpreting the music should count for much or anything in this program could be up for debate. It would please the fans who like artistic skating most and not so much those for whom artistic scoring detracts from the validity of the sport as sport.

    But the Skating Skills component should make up a big part of the score, along with the other components as applicable. And then skaters who can't score well in that phase would not advance.

    Or my dream is to have a Skating Skills program, with music; a Spins program without music performed on half ice (men's event on one end, women's on the other); and a Jumps competition without music, probably each skater getting the ice for 2 minutes (or similar time limit) to execute each of 3 or 4 required spin elements or 4 or 5 required jump elements, with second chances allowed on the jumps within the time limit.

    If the Spins and Jumps are performed as isolated elements and scored on base value and GOE (including bullets for entries and exits) only, then skaters would be free to relax and do whatever they want between elements to catch their breath -- even go to the boards and drink water, etc.

    Or they could be performed as non-music programs and also be scored on PCS, except for IN obviously if there is no music.

    Give small medals for the top finishers in each of these disciplines, and then take a combined score (or factored placements) for these preliminary rounds to determine a smaller group of skaters to advance to the well-balanced freeskate final, which would be the most prestigious medal.

  4. #124
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    8,123

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Joekaz View Post
    A good solution would be to bring back compulsory figures. That would weed out the less skilled skaters and then we can reward the risk taking skaters that want to advance the sport out of the group of truly skilled skaters that remain after the figures. If it bores people, just don't televise the figures portion. Hardly any skating is televised live anymore anyway. That way everyone is happy, jump fans and skating fans.
    Is the purpose of that to ensure talented skaters stand atop the podium, or that we see more programs with high quality skating? If it's the latter, that probably wouldn't happen. A lot of the good figures ladies didn't exhibit the same grace and artistry during their programs. Kira Ivanova, who competed against Witt, did well in figures but you'd never know she was a talented skater if you watched her competitive programs. It also made the competitions confusing for casual fans when they couldn't understand how someone who does well in both televised segments still doesn't win because of a part that they didn't watch.

  5. #125
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,433
    Country: United Kingdom

    0 Not allowed!
    A lot of these ideas make no sense in the modern figure skating world.
    Figures were ditched for a reason, I doubt bringing then back would help.

    I see nothing wrong with the way the competitions and programs are structured, but if people really have a thing against technical supremacy trumping artistry then bumping up the value of PCS seems like a step in the right direction.

  6. #126
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    212

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Is the purpose of that to ensure talented skaters stand atop the podium, or that we see more programs with high quality skating? If it's the latter, that probably wouldn't happen. A lot of the good figures ladies didn't exhibit the same grace and artistry during their programs. Kira Ivanova, who competed against Witt, did well in figures but you'd never know she was a talented skater if you watched her competitive programs. It also made the competitions confusing for casual fans when they couldn't understand how someone who does well in both televised segments still doesn't win because of a part that they didn't watch.
    Since it is a competition, ensuring talented skaters are at the top should be the priority. The judging confuses the public far more than compulsory figures ever did. Lol

  7. #127
    FigureSkatingPhenom draqq's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,185
    Country: United States of America

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    I like this idea.

    A couple of questions. Would 10.0 be the highest TES value - why not allow 10.something, or even 11.something - the skater's got 11 out of 10! For the difference it makes I think this would be OK, plus presumably like in 6.0 you'd be announcing the scores separately so that you can compare one judges technical or performance score with another.

    Also, presumably you would have scaling in the SP, this time out of 55 TES rather than the 110 for the LP. However you would have to divide the final total by 2 so that it's half the value of the LP. Alternatively why not have the SP out of 10, and the LP out of 20, it works fine for ski-jumping 'style marks', so 20 would be OK for TES/PCS in LPs, plus no need for some strange division that people might not quite understand.
    Thanks for liking the idea!

    Conceptually, the max score of a 10.0 in TES is in place primarily so that PCS is weighted equally to TES at all times. If there are skaters that achieve above a 10.0 in TES, then their scores will be used to upgrade what the following year's average of the top 10 scores will be. This will effectively increase what a 10.0 means in TES for the following year. It's sort of like how it worked in the old system, where a 10.0 in TES meant the best of the best during that period, and then as the sport evolved, achieving the same 10.0 gets harder.

    Yep, there would be scaling in the SP to be half the points of the LP. So the SP would be multiplied by a factor 1 and the LP would be a factor of 2. No need for division since that can lead to complications and rounding errors.

  8. #128
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    6,765

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by draqq View Post
    Conceptually, the max score of a 10.0 in TES is in place primarily so that PCS is weighted equally to TES at all times. If there are skaters that achieve above a 10.0 in TES, then their scores will be used to upgrade what the following year's average of the top 10 scores will be.
    But what happens this year if multiple skaters exceed the score that was set at 10 based on last year's scores? Do they all get 10.0 with no distinctions between someone who was just slightly over the maximum (10.01) and someone who was significantly over (14.59)?

    Or do they actually get scores higher than 10?

    In the former case, PCS would end up deciding medals whenever several top skaters as a group raise the bar in a new season. Sometimes small differences in PCS would override larger deserved differences in TES.

    In the latter case, TES would no longer be capped at the same limit as PCS.

    Either way, and not only at the top of the standings, there would likely be more ties as TES scores would lose two significant digits at both front and back (e.g., 8.5 rather than 85.53).

    Of course one could argue that the judging is not really accurate to two decimal places and it would be more honest to tie skaters who are that close than to make distinctions that can be attributed to rounding effects

  9. #129
    FigureSkatingPhenom draqq's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,185
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    But what happens this year if multiple skaters exceed the score that was set at 10 based on last year's scores? Do they all get 10.0 with no distinctions between someone who was just slightly over the maximum (10.01) and someone who was significantly over (14.59)?

    Or do they actually get scores higher than 10?

    In the former case, PCS would end up deciding medals whenever several top skaters as a group raise the bar in a new season. Sometimes small differences in PCS would override larger deserved differences in TES.

    In the latter case, TES would no longer be capped at the same limit as PCS.

    Either way, and not only at the top of the standings, there would likely be more ties as TES scores would lose two significant digits at both front and back (e.g., 8.5 rather than 85.53).

    Of course one could argue that the judging is not really accurate to two decimal places and it would be more honest to tie skaters who are that close than to make distinctions that can be attributed to rounding effects
    I see what you mean. The main sticking point for this system would be that TES would be capped at 10.0. The PCS would be the deciding factor if multiple skaters achieve a TES score past the threshold for a 10.0.

    Some countermeasures could be implemented. I suppose the better option would be to keep a record of top 10 highest TES scores overall regardless of the year (excluding any years where the BV and GOE were scaled quite differently), and use that as the stick for what a 10.0 in TES is. Or if we're being more stringent, just have the 10.0 scaled to whatever THE highest TES score was. I believe that was Trusova's 86.96 TES from last year's Junior Worlds free skate.

    And if we're being EVEN MORE strict, we can set the 10.0 in TES to be 10 points (or some percentage) above the highest TES score (or the original idea of an average of the top 10 scores) to leave some buffer room. However, that would mean the 10.0 would be extremely rare to achieve.

    At any rate, if the ISU feels like it, I suppose they can come in and set the threshold for a 10.0 as they like mid-season and change things, but I feel like that's not particularly fair either.

  10. #130
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    54

    0 Not allowed!
    I didn't hear this much hand wringing and complaints when skaters were phoning in 6 triple programs with poor step sequences and easy spins. For several seasons and until retirement mind you. As soon as the judges started handing out level 2's and 3's StSq fairly or unfairly to Eteri girls all of a sudden fast and dynamic footwork are important. TBF Eteri's current crop of girls don't have good step sequences. I think Zagitova is pretty good but the 3A are just not up to standard. The only one in the ladies whose step sequences I actually like are Medvedeva's.

  11. #131
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    106
    Country: Germany

    0 Not allowed!
    For me, ladies aren't the problem. If Trusova lands 3 or 4 quads in addition to several 3-3 combinations, she kind of deserves the lead, I think. Even though I'm not a fan of her skating. If she messes up 2 quads, which can happen after all, then it's Kostornaia's chance to beat her with just 3As and artistry. But the thing with Tutberidze students is, even if they mess up their quads/3As, they still have several clean 3-3 combinations to make up for that.
    The men on the other hand... they fall on their first jumps and instead of saving a good impression of the program, they will continue to attempt (too) difficult elements. Men's skating is just a mess right now. I really wish that falls on any element would give zero points and a deduction. So maybe they can afford one risky element, but not 3 or 4 or 5... I don't even care to watch the men's event anymore and it used to be my favorite.

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •