2019 Judging and Tech calls discussion | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2019 Judging and Tech calls discussion

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Still bitter undertone. Watching the replays, where they've found those URs it's the ultimate question life, universe and everything...

But lets move on and hope in Alina doing as good as usually and normal judging panel in NHK.

Silver was her destiny today, she did make mistakes. Alyona was the best overall.
Even ignoring the judging completely
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Still bitter undertone. Watching the replays, where they've found those URs it's the ultimate question life, universe and everything...

But lets move on and hope in Alina doing as good as usually and normal judging panel in NHK.

Alina will be treated with respect and deservedly so in Japan. I'm sure she's leaving France a little bit bewildered.

And a special gold medal should be awarded to flanker for always standing tall like the Berlin Wall for Alina Alina Sasha and Anna! :) ;)
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Excuse me?!
Um... maybe I wasn’t notified, but since when some posters took on responsibility to tell others how to react, and what they should or should not say?
I don’t care what you think, I can and will express my opinion.

Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous what some users allow themselves.

Attacking a tech controller for no logical reason, when there are also 9 judges and two other tech panelists involved, yet ignoring that, is unreasonable and ridiculous. You know this harmful conspiracy type of thing isn't even allowed here, the tech controller thing was done to death already before the FS yet you persist with it nonetheless.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Attacking a tech controller for no logical reason, when there are also 9 judges and two other tech panelists is unreasonable and ridiculous. You know this harmful conspiracy type of thing isn't even allowed here yet persist with it nonetheless.

Attacking?! By calling him funny?
Conspiracy? Lmao, so you are now labeling everyone conspiracists?! Buahaha! Good job!
My first comment even mentioning his name and all I said that he is funny. Turns out this is a conspiracy now... Do you even know what a conspiracy is?

Probably you’ve been spending too much time here, and need a rest, you see conspiracies in every post.

the tech caller is responsible for the calls, judges are not, and he made a choice of calling both flip and lutz, which I think is absurd. End of story.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
The fact that Alena was better doesn't mean that the calls on the lutz was correct. You are saying the same thing for 2 days now across 30 something pages. What you are saying has nothing to do with what other people are saying. You quote them, people get infractions life is going on and the trees are blue.

I'm satisfied with the results, the podium was exactly as it should be, all three deserved their medals.

All three went out there and did ths best they could at the time.

Can't people just be happy for the skaters and move on?

- - - Updated - - -

Attacking?! By calling him funny?
Conspiracy? Lmao, so you are now labeling everyone conspiracists?! Buahaha! Good job!
My first comment even mentioning his name and all I said that he is funny. Turns out this is a conspiracy now... Do you even know what a conspiracy is?

Probably you’ve been spending too much time here, and need a rest, you see conspiracies in every post.

the tech caller is responsible for the calls, judges are not, and he made a choice of calling both flip and lutz, which I think is absurd. End of story.

So he simply made mistakes then? Is that it? If they were absurd was it simply human error or do you think it was deliberate?

Simple question
 

pearly

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
the tech caller is responsible for the calls, judges are not, and he made a choice of calling both flip and lutz, which I think is absurd. End of story.

You mean the technical controller. The way panels sometimes work is that they decide in advance who will look at what. For example, tt would be very difficult for one person to call spin levels on their own since there are several things to look at - number of positions, variations, number of revolutions in each position etc. So they split the task.

When it comes to jumps, two need to agree on edge, UR or downgrade calls. From the angles available to us, it's safe to say that some obvious URs weren't called, some jumps that looked ok got URs. Some edge calls aren't clear to us but some truly are. Let's not pretend all of Alina's jumps yesterday and today were clean. Whoever claims that either does not know what to look or is ignoring what they see.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
You mean the technical controller. The way panels sometimes work is that they decide in advance who will look at what. For example, tt would be very difficult for one person to call spin levels on their own since there are several things to look at - number of positions, variations, number of revolutions in each position etc. So they split the task.

When it comes to jumps, two need to agree on edge, UR or downgrade calls. From the angles available to us, it's safe to say that some obvious URs weren't called, some jumps that looked ok got URs. Some edge calls aren't clear to us but some truly are. Let's not pretend all of Alina's jumps yesterday and today were clean. Whoever claims that either does not know what to look or is ignoring what they see.

Let’s also not pretend calling Aliona’s flip is not funny. On one hand, Aliona can consider this a compliment, lmao :D
That’s as far as for an obvious mistake/questionable call.
Let’s also not pretend the amount of calls for Alina and Kaori is not mind boggling. I don’t agree with them, I have my right to do so. I don’t think tech panel did a great job on this event, that’s just my opinion.
 

Giltedge

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Judging aside the placements were fine. Alyona absolutely nailed it, I doubt even Zagitova skating cleaner could have beaten that performance.

Mariah I was very impressed with, I wasn't expecting her to be that good in the FS but she's improved so much and her consistency is miles better.

Kaori had a rough SP and although her FS was 100% better, it wasn't completely clean and was low balled somewhat. She probably wouldn't have beaten Mariah for Bronze anyway.


Within a short single post, we have "Alyona", "Mariah", "Kaori" and "Zagitova"? We had this from another poster here recently, who was rightly castigated by almost every respondent for evident disrespect but persisted in defending the indefensible. Strangely enough, it was the same skater (Alina) who bore the brunt of the disrespect (forgetfulness / randomness / whatever the excuse was).

"...and was low balled somewhat..."
This is the sort of phraseology in others' posts that has ludicrously drawn accusations of "conspiracy theories" in more than a dozen posts on the preceding pages, along with reminders that c. theorising is not permitted by the rules here. Let's leave others to draw their conclusions.
 
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*~RussianBleux~*

Medalist
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Let’s also not pretend calling Aliona’s flip is not funny. On one hand, Aliona can consider this a compliment, lmao :D
That’s as far as for an obvious mistake/questionable call.
Let’s also not pretend the amount of calls for Alina and Kaori is not mind boggling. I don’t agree with them, I have my right to do so. I don’t think tech panel did a great job on this event, that’s just my opinion.

You don’t speak for everyone. They’re not mind boggling to me. I saw several < in Kaori’s performance and figured her score would come down a lot (and people would whine about it because it was “so clean”). Alina’s lutzes were pretty obvious and her edge is as flat as pancake.
 

Haikush

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
In a fair world Mariah would have gotten the silver over a messy mistake filled PCS gifted Zagitova
 

*~RussianBleux~*

Medalist
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
In a fair world Mariah would have gotten the silver over a messy mistake filled PCS gifted Zagitova

Yep. Alina has her advantages and her programs this season are my favorites from her, but in no universe did she deserve the highest PCS in this event. She is messy and hunchy and in no way a better skater than many of the Japanese ladies she is constantly scored over.

I knew that Alena would be facing at uphill battle as the new kid on the block but I thought for sure there is no way they could score her lower after seeing those skates back to back but noooooope. Alina’s PCS should have been behind Mariah and Kaori’s as well.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
You don’t speak for everyone. They’re not mind boggling to me. I saw several < in Kaori’s performance and figured her score would come down a lot (and people would whine about it because it was “so clean”). Alina’s lutzes were pretty obvious and her edge is as flat as pancake.

Did I ever say I’m speaking for everyone?
You think people „whine“, I think people have a right to express their opinions, because you know... they might differ from yours and that doesn’t make their opinions „whining“.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
In a fair world Mariah would have gotten the silver over a messy mistake filled PCS gifted Zagitova
Lolllll! Bell richly deserve the bronze and got it.

Mariah is over 6 years older than Alina! Congrats to Bell for sticking it out in her career and becoming really good. I kind of used to think of her as a journey woman figure skater. She's hung in there and gotten better. But Mariah is older than Liza. ;)

And I have a feeling that Viktoria Z. might end up being the best of all in a few years. Flexibility, power and a determined gleem in her eyes. LOL
That gleam in her eyes has some diva at 11 years old because someone asked her a year or so ago who's your favorite skater and she said herself. Lol! But she's coached by Eteri and her great team so the sky is the limit for Veronika.
I believe she was with another group at Sambo-70, she was 16th or something at russian junior nationals prior to joining Eteri.
The right coach makes a big big difference. And Alyiona has the right coach for her.
 

IcyMathStats

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Country
United-States
Lolllll! Bell richly deserve the bronze and got it.

Mariah is over 6 years older than Alina! Congrats to Bell for sticking it out in her career and becoming really good. I kind of used to think of her as a journey woman figure skater. She's hung in there and gotten better. But Mariah is older than Liza. ;)

.

This. Bell has definitely improved after seasons of stagnation but also got a little help from the judges/technical panel who were overly lenient to her but absurdly unfair to Alina. Bell's jumps are lower and with less displacement than Alina's, even if Bell mostly does them from crossovers and takes a long time to set them up while Alina uses very difficult transitions. Also Bell had the skate of her life, while Kaori Sakamoto and Wakaba Higuchi who are stronger skaters but not in top form right now made costly mistakes. In a normal world Bell would have placed fifth or lower in this field, so she should be happy with that bronze. As Scott says, she's older than Liza Tuktamysheva, who beats her both in terms of technical skills and career accomplishments. You can applaud her for trying, but a bronze in a field with weak competition for third place where better skaters make mistakes is her ceiling. But you also have to give Alina due credit for well-deserved silver. Fair is fair.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
This. Bell has definitely improved after seasons of stagnation but also got a little help from the judges/technical panel who were overly lenient to her but absurdly unfair to Alina. Bell's jumps are lower and with less displacement than Alina's, even if Bell mostly does them from crossovers and takes a long time to set them up while Alina uses very difficult transitions. Also Bell had the skate of her life, while Kaori Sakamoto and Wakaba Higuchi who are stronger skaters but not in top form right now made costly mistakes. In a normal world Bell would have placed fifth or lower in this field, so she should be happy with that bronze. As Scott says, she's older than Liza Tuktamysheva, who beats her both in terms of technical skills and career accomplishments. You can applaud her for trying, but a bronze in a field with weak competition for third place where better skaters make mistakes is her ceiling. But you also have to give Alina due credit for well-deserved silver. Fair is fair.
Exactly. It was a well-deserved silver medal for Alina But some people want her to escape into oblivion. That's not going to happen. Only the cream-of-the-crop can beat her at this point. To beat the champ you have to knock her out and Alyiona did that. Mariah did not.

On a side note how well Mariah Bell is doing at age 23 still improving and how well bradie tennell is doing at age 21 still improving should give hope to all the Nastyas and Nugumanova with the Russian ladies. Sometimes I feel these underappreciated Russinas must feel overwhelmed at the rise and dominance of 4A. I just hope they keep the faith the way the two Americans have and gradually improve the way they have.
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
It sounds like some posters are trying to insult Mariah for having success at a later age. How disappointing. If you’re a fan of skating you should be supportive of all skaters. Mariah beat Alina in the LP, so you should give credit where it it’s due.
 

IcyMathStats

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Country
United-States
It sounds like some posters are trying to insult Mariah for having success at a later age. How disappointing. If you’re a fan of skating you should be supportive of all skaters. Not just the ones that are a blip on the radar

If you read the posts carefully, both Scott and I have stated that it is highly commendable when a skater continues to work, improve, and achieve competitive success past traditional retirement age (through ethical means and under fair judging of course). We were only objecting to the assertion that Mariah Bell deserved silver over Alina Zagitova. Which is NOT the case, and fortunately did not happen, no matter how much the panel fiddled with the numbers and searched for every single possible pretext to subtract points from Alina's scores. I am very happy when a US lady wins a medal, but at the same time I want that to happen because they have earned it through hard work and genuine competitiveness, as opposed to their rivals underperforming or double standards being applied in evaluating skaters.
 

Seruleane

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
It sounds like some posters are trying to insult Mariah for having success at a later age. How disappointing. If you’re a fan of skating you should be supportive of all skaters. Mariah beat Alina in the LP, so you should give credit where it it’s due.

I really didn’t get that sense at all. They complimented Mariah for improving a lot even though she is older, and we all know that it is way more difficult when you’re not young and 15. Just because they don’t agree she should be 2nd doesn’t mean they’re insulting her.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
To beat the champ you have to knock her out and Alyiona did that. Mariah did not.

This is true. In every sport the champ gets the calls in a close contest. To beat the champ you have to knock her out -- you cannot expect any help from the judges.
 
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