2020 Four Continents: Ladies' Free Skate

readernick said:

PCS was high because she got home scoring. lt happens to most skaters . She is a good jumper but I agree that her SS, transitions, and the overall quality of her skating is below Bradie's and far below Rika's.

I would have put Rika's PCS at 72/73
Bradie at 69/70
and Young at 65/66.

Usually the small at home judging bonus that skaters get doesn't affect the result of the competition, but it did here. However, Bradie has also benefited from favorable home judging in the past. I am sure she will take it in stride.

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I just feel like many in this board are oh well to most countries skaters but when a Russian skater gets a home boost and wins over a better quality skater due to a PCS boost its an absolute scandal.

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Colonel Green said:

Home judging + TES=PCS judging, since she landed a triple Axel.

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Land Triple axel is not in the PCs criteria.

4CC has been one of the best competitions this season so far for me. The men yesterday blew me away. Wow.
Also the ladies were on fire today, so many great programs and yay for Young You and her silver medal. She has gotten so consistent over the past few years. It's amazing. Also congrats to Rika for being the first singles skater who won 4CC two times in a row. Wakaba's 3A was a beauty, cannot wait for her to land it in competion. In practice it looks amazing. I am so happy that things are going up for Wakaba. Her Poeta StSq is so fun to watch. She is a natural performer. Karen was also so fantastic, the skate of her life! Her spins and spirals are what dreams are made of. Yelim's FS was also so beautiful. As far as I know Yuna Kim helped to rework her FS (correct me if I am wrong) and it suits Yelim so well. She got a new SB and will probably get two GP assignmente next season, yay. I could go on and on, so many amazing ladies from start to finish.

KatGrace1925 said:

Land Triple axel is not in the PCs criteria.

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Nobody was saying that it was.

KatGrace1925 said:

I just feel like many in this board are oh well to most countries skaters but when a Russian skater gets a home boost and wins over a better quality skater due to a PCS boost its an absolute scandal.

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Land Triple axel is not in the PCs criteria.

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Its not just Russian, usually skater from big country get hate for that but not so much for skater with smaller country since their federation usually do less politicking and did not have big event held in their country (big country get GP on yearly basis)

Of course high technical content should not result in higher PCS according to the rules outlined by the ISU, but we all know it does.. examples of this include Trusova, Sherbakova, and now Young You in the ladies. They also include a lot of male skaters who get high PCS primarily because of high technical content. Jason Brown should win the PCS scores in most competitions but he usually doesn't because skaters with more quads get higher PCS even though they have far few transitions and less impressive SS.

It is irritating but until the ISU agrees to have separate panels for the judging of PCS/TES it will continue to happen.

I am happy Young You skated well at home.

Rika and Bradie were amazing and cool headed in their freeskates

I think Young You skated really well. In the last group she stood out to me the most (perhaps she and Rika). The flow in and out of her jumps was beautiful, and it was a clean performance with great energy. To me she fully deserved her PCS this time regardless of having a 3A or not. I think her PCS was held down previously because she was a newcomer, and now they are rising to what they should be. But everyone has their opinions.

Bradie is definitely giving me hope that the US can get back 3 spots. But she crumbled slightly under nationals pressure; I hope she doesn’t crumble under worlds pressure.

Poor kaori. Idk what’s going on.

I have to admit I’m not a fan of Young You and her style of skating, I feel she’s very boring. The entrance to the 3A looks like she’s warming up doing laps around the ice. But I don’t hate her! Disliking a skater’s style of performing is not the same as hating the person.

I like that Karen has a triple-Euler-triple combo instead of a 3-3 in the long.

Congratulations to Rika on winning gold, Young You on winning silver and Bradie on winning bronze. All gave impressive freeskate performances.

I think it is ironic to see some comments here about how Young You should have scored less because of her allegedly deficient performance ability, while many others online are saying that by contrast she should have won silver by a greater margin because of how impressive her overall performance was. She was able to get second even with strict tech calls that a number of other skaters aren't receiving for similar landings like the edge call in the short on the triple flip and the ur call on the triple flip in the long, and the lowest PCS of all the medalists by several points. In my opinion, posing a threat to more favorites often causes there to be an underestimation of the quality of a skater's performance, along with the fact that there are alternative tastes in artistic expression. Even though Young You needs to improve the crispness and speed of her turns in her step sequence, a need that is often not mentioned for others, she had the most expansive rink coverage. This is shown by the fact that she often skated and placed her most difficult jumps like the triple axel and triple lutz / triple toe right next to the boards, which is a rare and impressive feature that demonstrates excellent skating skills. This also really brings the audience into the performance and shows great rink awareness, speed and control especially when a number of great skaters in the past have either collided with or almost collided with the boards when trying to execute such impressive and daring rink coverage. Feeling a skater's artistic expression is largely subjective, but I felt a real emotional resonance and was really moved by her performance which reached a peak for me during her stunning Ina Bauer. I enjoy her expression with her arms as well and the way she goes into her elements with a lot of power and commitment balanced with grace. Her quality of jumps are really impressive: minimal pre-rotation, symmetrical air position, nice height and distance, that gain a stately quality to me because of her being fairly tall.

Rika also did a great job in delivering consistency and grace under pressure over two programs displaying really fine presence of mind when she popped the first triple axel to gather her senses and reel off a triple axel / double toe and two back to back triple flip / triple toe combos and even adding a double toe to the end of one of them, to give her 8 triples in the long and 4 in short and she also brought back two beautiful triple lutzes across the SP and LP with sophisticated expression with her arms and intricate step sequences with excellent skating skills. There was also an ease and fluidity to her delivery after the pop both through her jumps, spins and step sequences despite the added jump improvisation that let the program breath with a maturity of expression and execution that was impressive. I think she should have received a little more in PCS.

Bradie had an impressive and agile recovery from her near step out on the triple lutz, held onto a one foot landing and did a fine job of tacking on the triple toe at the end and performed really well from that point on in expression, technically and in skating.

I definitely don’t think You Young has ever been held down in PCS. The programs she had this year just weren’t it, I feel like they got the style wrong for her because she clearly just gets through parts of her program with no commitment to what she’s putting out. It’s a go through the motions just get through it and focus on the jumps which is because she doesn't connect with her music. I hope they get her better programs next year, the Evita just wasn’t it and compared to Bradie and Rika she should have been 5 points behind in PCS definitely not close.

I don’t understand how anyone can watch that big section with that glaringly slow step sequence with little movement and think yes that is a 9.25 in skatig skills, look at those edges not doing anything.

Congrats to the medalists! They all skated great and deserved to medal! Karen Chen though was my own personal highlight - I didn't believe we'd see this Karen again - the Karen that performed like this a few times at Nationals but can't seem to perform as well internationally. I hope this was a breakthrough for her cause when she is good it's just beautiful skating!!

purplecat said:

Congrats to the medalists! They all skated great and deserved to medal! Karen Chen though was my own personal highlight - I didn't believe we'd see this Karen again - the Karen that performed like this a few times at Nationals but can't seem to perform as well internationally. I hope this was a breakthrough for her cause when she is good it's just beautiful skating!!

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Karen really put it all out there, it was triumphant given her struggles the past few seasons. I am proud of her and hopefully this gives her confidence to really continue to put out beautiful performances internationally.

There weren't rotated 3As in the whole 4CC ladies competition. Every. Single. One. Of. Them was URed. As well as many, many, many other jumps. Which absolutely wasn't reflected in protocols. You say it's just "lenient" panel? Say it again to both Chens (Karen and Hongyu) who were literally killed with multiple calls It's not a competitive sport - it's judging circus. With shameless home inflation to boot. Faces of both Yelin Kim and Young You in K&C who never seen such scores in all their life were very telling As some others too like Amber Glenn - such reactions are sure first sign of overscoring, btw. Skaters knows how they skate pretty well after all.
Also, nobody is complaining about age in that thread, really? How about usual whining "How dare those 15.y.o. Korean jumping beans win over so many veteran mature skaters and getting undeserved PCS too? Raise the age immediately! And ban 3As! We should be concerned about their health!" Oh, yes - I completely forgot, silly me. They are not Eteri skaters So of course they are just young talents with unprecedented maturity for their age and careful approach in preserving their health. 3A? Nah, this jump is completely safe unlike those dangerous Russian quads - what are you talking about!
On a serious note, all in all, the judging was really bad. And it's not just only overscoring. With proper calling the podium placements would be completely different. And that's a problem. With such judging you can watch the event just as a set of fs performances, like ballet show (and even then, the ladies event was pretty bland, with only a few worthy skates). Watch as the competition? I tried - but sorry, it's impossible. It's just like watching ice dance - what you showing on ice have nothing to do with your scores. Well, at least Kaori tried to jump 4T. I really enjoyed her skate - and that quad was surprisingly well fit into whole Matrix theme - even strengthening the whole artistic impression of her program :agree:

KatGrace1925 said:

I definitely don’t think You Young has ever been held down in PCS. The programs she had this year just weren’t it, I feel like they got the style wrong for her because she clearly just gets through parts of her program with no commitment to what she’s putting out. It’s a go through the motions just get through it and focus on the jumps which is because she doesn't connect with her music. I hope they get her better programs next year, the Evita just wasn’t it and compared to Bradie and Rika she should have been 5 points behind in PCS definitely not close.

I don’t understand how anyone can watch that big section with that glaringly slow step sequence with little movement and think yes that is a 9.25 in skatig skills, look at those edges not doing anything.

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I think the overwhelmingly fast You's overscoring throughout the whole season (including constant ignoring her 3A UR) can be explained only by wish of ISU judges to make from her some rival to Russians TES dominators artificially. Because really - in any other time period she would be required at least two seasons to get enough reputation before judges would give her today's scores. It's this ridiculous.

YuBluByMe said:

The 3F+3T+2T was a very impressive improvisation to make up for the missed 3A. She was doing 2A+2T+2T (ugh!) or a 2A+1Eu+3S before. I didn’t even know she could do 3-3-2s. That’s some nerves of steel. Apparently she was a wreck in her junior days. I’m glad I missed that because I already have a whole patch of gray hair that sprouted when she popped her 3A for the first (and hopefully only) time this season.

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“I realized that I did one triple Axel in my performance when I landed the second one,” she explained. “So, I wanted to add a triple toe loop in my program somewhere. And then I switched the combination to triple flip-triple toe-double toe. It needed massive concentration to succeed, because I could not make it successful even in the practice. It was my first time ever to land two combinations with the triple toe loop in a program.”

gsk8 said:

“I realized that I did one triple Axel in my performance when I landed the second one,” she explained. “So, I wanted to add a triple toe loop in my program somewhere. And then I switched the combination to triple flip-triple toe-double toe. It needed massive concentration to succeed, because I could not make it successful even in the practice. It was my first time ever to land two combinations with the triple toe loop in a program.”

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That final statement... has she forgotten her last free skate at 4CC? There were two 3Ts if I remember correctly.

Overall, the top 3 skaters performed well but I strongly disagree with the scores. It seems like everyone in the top 8 were incredibly overscored except for Rika.

Rika did a great job saving the program after a shaky beginning and changing her layout on the fly. Say what you want about her program this season, but I cannot agree with her SS mark below a 9.

Bradie did a nice job after the turn out at the beginning, but looked especially stiff out there last night. I think it’s a combination of the program which emphasizes her wooden knees (compared to her staccato SP which is unique and works better for her) and skating right after Kaori and Wakaba, two skaters with very soft knees. I can’t fathom seeing all 3 in a row and not differentiating by AT LEAST a half point, and not in favor of Bradie.

Young You did a great job landing the jumps, but this program is not it for her. Extremely simple and mostly two foot skating between the jumps, not to mention the huge telegraphed 3A which got mostly +3/4? I’m sorry but I disagree. Rika also has a relatively simple entry to her 3A, but it is short and by no means telegraphed. Young’s can be seen coming from a mile away and should affect the GOE - I can’t justify giving it more than a +2 due to the entrance.

I’m not saying other skaters aren’t also overscored, but I just can’t get behind the scores for Bradie/Young in comparison to Rika at this event.

Elucidus said:

Faces of both Yelin Kim and Young You in K&C who never seen such scores in all their life were very telling. As some others too like Amber Glenn - such reactions are sure first sign of overscoring, btw.

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What nonsense. Glenn, especially, received a score about 5 points higher than her previous personal best, and it was her best free of the season (maybe ever, honestly). You has had three free skates this season hovering around the 140 mark (one of those at the junior level), none of which were as good as this one.

Obviously the Koreans benefited from a home bonus, as skaters generally do, but their marks were not grossly inflated by any means.

lzxnl said:

That final statement... has she forgotten her last free skate at 4CC? There were two 3Ts if I remember correctly.

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I don’t remember what Kihira did at last year’s 4CC, but she must be misremembering regardless. She’s been doing eight triple free skates - with one 3A instead of two - as a Junior so unless she was landing 3Lo combos back in the day, she definitely landed two 3Ts before. Maybe she meant two triple-3T combos?

purplecat said:

Congrats to the medalists! They all skated great and deserved to medal! Karen Chen though was my own personal highlight - I didn't believe we'd see this Karen again - the Karen that performed like this a few times at Nationals but can't seem to perform as well internationally. I hope this was a breakthrough for her cause when she is good it's just beautiful skating!!

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Karen was my highlight too, her triple lutz is a thing of beauty and she looked so confident and assured!! Such beautiful spins and spirals, it was really lovely seeing her skate so well.

KatGrace1925 said:

I like You Young but her PCS was confusing to me. She skated with no commitment to her choreography, a level 2 step sequence and didn’t perform. It was 100% focused on jumps. Everything lacked polish, detail and emotion.

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I agree. I get "home town" advantage but we don't do the sport any favor by over scoring home town favorites. Young had excellent technical skills but KatGrace has it right-it lacked the sophistication and emotion that high 8s and 9s require.

Also, where is usual narrative about Young You's cheating technique? I mean, young upstart with cheated prerotated lutzes won over Bradie with good jumping technique, artistry and maturity. Yet no one is complaining - nor about prerotation neither about age What's going on? Something definitely strange is happening.. :scratch3: