Men's quad count | Golden Skate

Men's quad count

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Just out of curiosity, how many men have ever landed at least one clean quad in competition?

How do we define "clean"? Does Kurt Browning's from 1988 Worlds count, but not Jozef Sabovcik's from 1986 Europeans?

Should we only look at IJS-era quads and only give credit if there are no < or << calls and average GOE no lower than 0 (or -1)?
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Just out of curiosity, how many men have ever landed at least one clean quad in competition?

How do we define "clean"? Does Kurt Browning's from 1988 Worlds count, but not Jozef Sabovcik's from 1986 Europeans?

Should we only look at IJS-era quads and only give credit if there are no < or << calls and average GOE no lower than 0 (or -1)?
Who is the 1st and who is not mainly depends on the possibility to make better income from this or that being the 1st...
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Just out of curiosity, how many men have ever landed at least one clean quad in competition?

How do we define "clean"? Does Kurt Browning's from 1988 Worlds count, but not Jozef Sabovcik's from 1986 Europeans?

Should we only look at IJS-era quads and only give credit if there are no < or << calls and average GOE no lower than 0 (or -1)?

This would be super hard to track but there are hundreds, I would say - especially if you consider juniors and domestic competitions.

I also wouldn't necessarily gate IJS quads with GOE lower than 0 - for example Brandon Mroz's quad lutz (first quad lutz ever) wouldn't have made the cut, in spite of it obviously being a clean quad. http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2011/gpjpn2011_Men_SP_Scores.pdf

Conversely, some of the top tier guys have landed two footed quads or with a stepout or hand down, and still manage to get overall +GOE. :sarcasm:

While quad standards have become more strict I wouldn't consider a quad in the past negated just because it doesn't fall under today's rules.

It would be quite an undertaking to archive how many skaters joined the quad squad but it's a pretty extensive list.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Conversely, some of the top tier guys have landed two footed quads or with a stepout or hand down, and still manage to get overall +GOE. :sarcasm:

True, but chances are that guys to whom this applies have probably also landed some clean ones on other occasions (possibly even elsewhere in the same program).

I'm just curious whether we can actually name 200+ people who have landed quads in competition. Even being generous about what constitutes "landed."
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Who is the 1st and who is not mainly depends on the possibility to make better income from this or that being the 1st...

That's a pretty cynical way to look at it, though. Kurt Browning had a lucrative career in skating (and still does -- he apparently is going to be Sailor Moon's cat in Evgenia Medvedeva's big show in Japan :rock: ). But his main appeal was as a show skater and he is mostly praised for his footwork.

"Jumpin' Joe" Saabovcik made a career as a big jumper. His Russian split jump was the best in the business. He also had a backflip -- the only skater I ever saw do one with full layout -- and a tuck Axel -- whatever that is, but it sounds cool. He, too, made a lot of money in shows (and, like Kurt, is a Canadian citizen.)

I don't think that Brandon Mroz made any money off the first quad Lutz.

By the way, here is q quote from Jumpin'Joe, the first quadster:

In my opinion, the quality of skating itself (not jumping) has gone down. Figures taught how to use edges, like Robin Cousins and Brian Boitano still do, that with a couple of pushes they can get across the whole rink, you don't see that with the new skaters.
 
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Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Why not make two lists? One for clean - that is, not messily landed - quads that get no lower than 0 GOE and another for ratified quads?
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Super hard, if not impossible even for the entire IJS era - the protocols are available for the big championships for most of the period and even for some smaller competitions reasonably well until late 2000s, but before that it starts getting patchy. The smaller the competition, the less data available. Plus do you draw the line between national/international competitions?

For the pre-IJS era with no protocols, there is nothing to document attempts apart from possible videos and other random sources - Timothy Goebel's count went up to 76 [apparently the US fed counted, not specified whether it is really all or just international competitions], but there would be no way to track all of them from public sources.

Also, defining clean is an interesting question even in IJS. One of Javier Fernández's last quads in competition in Euros 2019 in the SP was deemed UR by TP and it got a 0.00 as GOE, the scores ranging from -2 to 2. (I would like to think the judges were disagreeing with the TP in that case ;))

But if anyone embarks in the counting process, would love to see the results! (Including the pops to show how many they were planning to do per competition...)

E
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I'm just looking for a list of names of skaters who have landed at least one successful quad.

So if we can show one quad for a person, put them on the list and move on.


If anyone wants to go further than that, sure, feel free.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
Even compiling that simple a list is hard work, methinks. First you have to figure out who tried and then try to trace all the attempts to see if there were any successful ones... Because you have to do the work to find the attempts, why not record all the results also? (Lots of work, though.)

Just for the heck of it, I checked the protocols that I could easily find for 2004-5, the first season with IJS widely in use (not all competitions though). I did not look at GOEs, just who had attempted quads and not popped (there were some who might have tried but failed) and though the list of names contains a lot of familiar names, there were also surprisingly many not so famous ones.

2004-5 21 skaters: Chiper, Dambier, Goebel, Griazev, Honda, Joubert, Lambiel, Lee, Lezin, Li, Lindemann, Ma, Nakaniwa, Plushenko, Preaubert, Sandhu, Smith, Song, Takahashi, Weiss, Zhang

Then I got curious and did the same for 2014-5. More protocols available, naturally, but also more than twice the number of guys who were trying. Complete turnover in a decade in skaters. Quite a few of these men have at least one clean one in their record.

2014-15 56 skaters: Aaron, Aliev, Amodio, Balde, Besseghier, Borodulin, Brezina, Brown, Bychenko, Carriere, Chan, Chen, Dmitriev, Dornbush, Farris, Fentz, Fernández, Gala, Gaschinski, Guan, Hanyu, Hino, Hochstein, Jin, Kerry, Kovtun, Kozuka, Kvitelashvili, Lam, Liebers, Machida, Menshov, Mura, Murakami, Nguyen, Paniot, Pitkeev, Razzano, Reynolds, Righini, Rippon, Rogozine, Samohin, Streubel, Tanaka, Tarasenko, D. Ten, J. Ten, Tondreau-Alin, Ulanovsky, Uno, Verner, Voronov, Wang, Yan, Zhang

E
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
That's a pretty cynical way to look at it, though. Kurt Browning had a lucrative career in skating (and still does -- he apparently is going to be Sailor Moon's cat in Evgenia Medvedeva's big show in Japan :rock: ). But his main appeal was as a show skater and he is mostly praised for his footwork.

"Jumpin' Joe" Saabovcik made a career as a big jumper. His Russian split jump was the best in the business. He also had a backflip -- the only skater I ever saw do one with full layout -- and a tuck Axel -- whatever that is, but it sounds cool. He, too, made a lot of money in shows (and, like Kurt, is a Canadian citizen.)

I don't think that Brandon Mroz made any money off the first quad Lutz.

By the way, here is q quote from Jumpin'Joe, the first quadster:
I was misunderstood and rightfully. Usually I'm much more cynical than "usual".

What I mean the idea to qualify the 1st attempt as good mainly depends on the possibility to make a money for appropriate businesses. Not for the athlete him or herself.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Of the top of my head, here's what I could come up with for 6.0-era quads, being generous about including some guys who made few attempts, that may not have been quite clean:

Abt, Barna, Boitano, Browning, Eldredge, Goebel, Guo, Honda, Klimkin, Kostin, Kulik, C. Li, Y. Li, Plushenko, Sabovcik, Sandhu, Stojko, Tamura, Urmanov, Weiss, Yagudin, Zhang

I'm not including anyone whose only attempts I'm aware of were clear failures, or who only attempted them in practice.

Corrections welcome if I've forgotten anyone.

There are of course some overlaps with your 2004-05 list.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I'm just looking for a list of names of skaters who have landed at least one successful quad.

So if we can show one quad for a person, put them on the list and move on. ...

ETA:

I see that the topic of the thread is morphing into quad attempts -- as opposed to successful quads.

I am deleting my (non-exhaustive) list of successful quads, which was stricter than eppen's list.​
 

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Larry Loupolover landed a clean 4Z with +GOE in his SP at Euros. His other jumps included a 3Z2T and a 2A, and his total TES was 37.68.

I’m curious: is this an example of the sport being pushed forward?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I wonder if there are quite a few skaters who landed a quad somewhere or other, but never made it to the big time where their achievement would appear in protocols from Grand Prix events and ISU championships. Maybe just a local club competition, or Regionals or something like that.

I once saw an adult skater do a triple Axel (and a pretty good one) in an adult skating competition.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Great skating name -- Larry Loop-lover. :)

Having actually seen Larry skate, the way his name was pronounced at a comp, presumably correctly, was Loo PAL ah ver. I like Loop lover better. ;)

But real question is, now that Jason has cut his hair, does Larry still rock a pony? :biggrin:
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I wonder if there are quite a few skaters who landed a quad somewhere or other, but never made it to the big time where their achievement would appear in protocols from Grand Prix events and ISU championships. ...

My guess would be that the answer is Yes.

With the huge disclaimer that my extremely vast ignorance is the context for my following usage of "unfamiliar-to-me" (so please do not come after me for my ignorance), I definitely am coming across unfamiliar-to-me names of men who successfully have rotated at least one quad with overall positive GOE (and at worst, not more than one or two individual judges giving GOE of -1).

Examples:
Konstantin Milyukov
Kao Miura
Nozomu Yoshioka
Vladimir Samoilov
Evgeni Semenenko
Andrei Zuber​

Some of my examples do have JGP or Challenger experience, but my "knowledge" of both series is highly sporadic -- which is just one of the reasons for my disclaimer above.

ETA:
My examples all are still active in the sport, so still possible that they will make it to the big time.​
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Great skating name -- Larry Loop-lover. :)

Having actually seen Larry skate, the way his name was pronounced at a comp, presumably correctly, was Loo PAL ah ver. I like Loop lover better. ;)

But real question is, now that Jason has cut his hair, does Larry still rock a pony? :biggrin:

Larry says his last name in this very nice interview from 2020 Euros:


He does appear to still have a small pony/manbun -- which IMO goes to show that Larry's choice for his own hair most likely has never had anything whatsoever to do with Jason's choices for Jason's hair.


I am a fan of Jason who is glad that the world does not revolve around Jason. Not even the world of men's skating.
 

eppen

Medalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Country
Spain
This was a really evil time consuming thread ;)

But here are the incomplete results of a survey not aiming at thoroughness. Limited to skaters who jumped at least one successful quad (= 0.00 or postive GOE, or, before IJS, ratified as a completed jump) in an international competition (coz you have to draw the line somewhere and if non-ISU results are no good for records, then it has to apply here, too).

It includes gkelly's list from above for the pre IJS men (the really tough part in this!). Then I put in the 2004-5 list with refinements (ie checked the success of the attempts), did the same for 2014-5, and went through 2019-20 list of male skaters in Skating Scores. The last bit was to check the list of high score jumps at RinkResults per season from 2003-4 to 2019-20 to see some of the frequent jumpers who might have been missed by the sample years. Ice_coverage provided one more name in the less well-known names (the others I had and a couple had only national comps). None of the good resources online (Skating Scores and Rink Results) provide full IJS competition protocols - mostly because they are not always available, but the smaller the competition, the less likely there are going to be guys with quads participating.

134 guys in this list

Aaron, Abbott, Abt, Aliev, Amodio, Aymoz
Balde, Barna, Besseghier, Bradley, Brezina, Browning, Bychenko
Carriere, Cha, Chan, Chen
Dambier, Danielian, Dinev, Dmitriev, Dobrin, Dornbush
Eldregde
Fentz, Fernández
Gao, Gaschinski, Goebel, Gogolev, Grigoriev, Guo, Grassl, Griazev, Gumennik
Hanyu, Hiwatashi, Hochstein, Honda
Ignatov
Jin, Joubert
Kagiyama, Kerry, Klimkin, Kolyada, Kostin, Kovtun, Kozuka, Krasnozhon, Kulik, Kvitelashvili
Lam, Lambiel, Lazukin, Lezin, Li Chenyang, Li Y., Liebers, Lindemann, Litvintsev, Loupolover, Lutai, Lutfullin
Ma Jimmy, Ma Xiaodong, Machida, Maysuradze, Menshov, Messing, Milyukov, Miura, Mozalev, Mroz, Mura, Murakami
Nadeau, Nakaniwa, Nguyen
Oda, Orzel
Paniot, Peng, Phan, Pitkeev, Plushenko, Ponsart, Ponsero, Preaubert, Pulkinen
Razzano, Reynolds, Righini, Rizzo, Rippon, Rogers
Sabovcik, Sadovsky, Samarin, Samohin, Samoilov, Sandhu, Sato, Savosin, Schultheiss, Selevko, Sezganov, Shimada, Siao Him Fa, Smith, Song, Stojko, Streubel
Takahashi, Tamura, Tanaka, Ten Denis, Tomono, Torgashev
Uno, Urmanov
Van den Perren, Verner, Voronov
Wang, Warren, Weiss
Yagudin, Yamamoto, Yan, Yee
Zhang He, Zhang Min, Zhou

Attempts, but no positive GOEs as far as I could find: Belohradsky, Borodulin, Brown, Buttle, Chiper, Farris, Gala, Guan, Hayrapetyan, Hino, Le May, Lee ?, Lee June, Mattick, Miyake, Murashov, Pfeifer, Rogozine, Rowe, Sahaka, Tarasenko, Ten Jeremy, Tesson, Tretiakov, Tsao, Tondreau-Alin, Ulanovsky, Vasiljevs, Virtanen, Zlatkov

The Skating Scores list was interesting to go through. 212 altogether, the first 50 or so had fairly regularly quads (or at least attempts), then it was mostly 3As as the most difficult jump until around 150 after which 3Lz dominated.

Feel free to correct and supply skaters this survey has missed (there will be many, I am sure)!

E

PS Ha-ha, already corrected myself - had forgotten to include a list of additional names I had.
 

kolyadafan2002

Fan of Kolyada
Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
This was a really evil time consuming thread ;)

But here are the incomplete results of a survey not aiming at thoroughness. Limited to skaters who jumped at least one successful quad (= 0.00 or postive GOE, or, before IJS, ratified as a completed jump) in an international competition (coz you have to draw the line somewhere and if non-ISU results are no good for records, then it has to apply here, too).

It includes gkelly's list from above for the pre IJS men (the really tough part in this!). Then I put in the 2004-5 list with refinements (ie checked the success of the attempts), did the same for 2014-5, and went through 2019-20 list of male skaters in Skating Scores. The last bit was to check the list of high score jumps at RinkResults per season from 2003-4 to 2019-20 to see some of the frequent jumpers who might have been missed by the sample years. Ice_coverage provided one more name in the less well-known names (the others I had and a couple had only national comps). None of the good resources online (Skating Scores and Rink Results) provide full IJS competition protocols - mostly because they are not always available, but the smaller the competition, the less likely there are going to be guys with quads participating.

134 guys in this list

Aaron, Abbott, Abt, Aliev, Amodio, Aymoz
Balde, Barna, Besseghier, Bradley, Brezina, Browning, Bychenko
Carriere, Cha, Chan, Chen
Dambier, Danielian, Dinev, Dmitriev, Dobrin, Dornbush
Eldregde
Fentz, Fernández
Gao, Gaschinski, Goebel, Gogolev, Grigoriev, Guo, Grassl, Griazev, Gumennik
Hanyu, Hiwatashi, Hochstein, Honda
Ignatov
Jin, Joubert
Kagiyama, Kerry, Klimkin, Kolyada, Kostin, Kovtun, Kozuka, Krasnozhon, Kulik, Kvitelashvili
Lam, Lambiel, Lazukin, Lezin, Li Chenyang, Li Y., Liebers, Lindemann, Litvintsev, Loupolover, Lutai, Lutfullin
Ma Jimmy, Ma Xiaodong, Machida, Maysuradze, Menshov, Messing, Milyukov, Miura, Mozalev, Mroz, Mura, Murakami
Nadeau, Nakaniwa, Nguyen
Oda, Orzel
Paniot, Peng, Phan, Pitkeev, Plushenko, Ponsart, Ponsero, Preaubert, Pulkinen
Razzano, Reynolds, Righini, Rizzo, Rippon, Rogers
Sabovcik, Sadovsky, Samarin, Samohin, Samoilov, Sandhu, Sato, Savosin, Schultheiss, Selevko, Sezganov, Shimada, Siao Him Fa, Smith, Song, Stojko, Streubel
Takahashi, Tamura, Tanaka, Ten Denis, Tomono, Torgashev
Uno, Urmanov
Van den Perren, Verner, Voronov
Wang, Warren, Weiss
Yagudin, Yamamoto, Yan, Yee
Zhang He, Zhang Min, Zhou

Attempts, but no positive GOEs as far as I could find: Belohradsky, Borodulin, Brown, Buttle, Chiper, Farris, Gala, Guan, Hayrapetyan, Hino, Le May, Lee ?, Lee June, Mattick, Miyake, Murashov, Pfeifer, Rogozine, Rowe, Sahaka, Tarasenko, Ten Jeremy, Tesson, Tretiakov, Tsao, Tondreau-Alin, Ulanovsky, Vasiljevs, Virtanen, Zlatkov

The Skating Scores list was interesting to go through. 212 altogether, the first 50 or so had fairly regularly quads (or at least attempts), then it was mostly 3As as the most difficult jump until around 150 after which 3Lz dominated.

Feel free to correct and supply skaters this survey has missed (there will be many, I am sure)!

E

PS Ha-ha, already corrected myself - had forgotten to include a list of additional names I had.


Harry Mattick landed the quad clean in British championships 2019 with GOE of 0, so just receiving base value. It was a perfect quad, but just three-turned out of it.
Johnny Weir landed at 2008 US nationals (albeit with negative GOE), as well as Evan Lysacek (positive GOE in 4CC's 2009),
 
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