Coronavirus and the new season | Page 26 | Golden Skate

Coronavirus and the new season

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^ OK, I have to ask. Does your username refer to the monstrous demon in the Sumerian Gilmagesh epic? :)
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The idea that they are talking about in the comments to the Hersh article are intriguing. Countries could hold events for skaters that are training within that country, of whatever citizenship.
 

el henry

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The idea that they are talking about in the comments to the Hersh article are intriguing. Countries could hold events for skaters that are training within that country, of whatever citizenship.

Man, they beat me to it:biggrin:

I have not read the comments, but I have been holding in the back of my mind, why couldn't Jason skate at a Canadian event? which at this point is entirely more likely to happen than an American one.....

maybe he could even skate at Canadian Nats and submit the score to whatever might pass for US Nats. Wouldn't that be the coolest?:cool:
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Probably just dressup games like this, but at least we could arrange a competition for the best costume :devil:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That "game" is so bad that you have to laugh.

But, it does say a lot about the way that people who do not follow figure skating perceive the sport. That figure skating is all about dressing up and looking pretty, rather than being a real sport. As we all know, this perception is completely wrong. And it is sad that people do still believe this.

That said, I am sure that your suggestion of a costume competition based on this game would be a much more popular idea amongst real figure skating fans than the ISU Awards were... :agree: :devil:

CaroLiza_fan
 

Supernovaimplosion

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For that matter, are there even any figure skating computer games on the market that could be used? I've never heard of any.

For what its worth, you can definitely play figure skating on Mario and Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games (2010 Vancouver). So maybe the ISU can use that. Maybe the olympics next year will just be the athletes playing their respective sports on 2020 version.
 

apgold

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I'm not sure if this was posted since the GP news has taken over the discussion for a few days, but I caught this on Youtube Monday. Jordan from On Ice Perspectives did a livestream entitled Virtual Skating Exhibition with L.A. Elite Ice & On Ice Perspectives.

Adam Rippon (who sported a band-aid on his forehead after walking into a door) provided some color commentary and Derrick Delmore (Coach and Choreographer) introduced his skaters, many who were junior or novice. Starr Andrews was probably the biggest name who skated (to an EX called "Finally" by Fergie).

Skaters list: Emma Chao, Mel Xu, Melea Karcher, Lana Zuccala, Mimika Endo,Lisa Borzilleri, Goku Endo, Alex Evans, Starr Andrews, Joon Soo Kim

I hope Jordan can bring more content like this, traveling to different rinks (as long as it's safe) to bring these virtual exhibitions during the season.
 

TallyT

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But, it does say a lot about the way that people who do not follow figure skating perceive the sport. That figure skating is all about dressing up and looking pretty, rather than being a real sport. As we all know, this perception is completely wrong. And it is sad that people do still believe this.

Oddly enough, they believe it most strongly in the countries where the skaters themselves try to downplay the costumes as much as possible, but not so much in Korea, Russia and Japan (where pretty much anything goes and is taken seriously :laugh:)
 

CaroLiza_fan

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I'm not sure if this was posted since the GP news has taken over the discussion for a few days, but I caught this on Youtube Monday. Jordan from On Ice Perspectives did a livestream entitled Virtual Skating Exhibition with L.A. Elite Ice & On Ice Perspectives.

Adam Rippon (who sported a band-aid on his forehead after walking into a door) provided some color commentary and Derrick Delmore (Coach and Choreographer) introduced his skaters, many who were junior or novice. Starr Andrews was probably the biggest name who skated (to an EX called "Finally" by Fergie).

Skaters list: Emma Chao, Mel Xu, Melea Karcher, Lana Zuccala, Mimika Endo,Lisa Borzilleri, Goku Endo, Alex Evans, Starr Andrews, Joon Soo Kim

I hope Jordan can bring more content like this, traveling to different rinks (as long as it's safe) to bring these virtual exhibitions during the season.

But, that's not a virtual skating event. A virtual event is where athletes compete in computer game versions of their sport, to keep themselves and fans entertained whilst the real thing is unable to take place due to restrictions. For example:

Virtual MotoGP Round 5: British GP
Virtual Formula 1 Round 8: Canadian GP

This is just a normal figure skating event being held behind closed doors.

Like, it even has group warm-ups where multiple skaters are on the ice at the same time! :shocked:

So much for social distancing.

For goodness sake, Jordan! Just call a spade a spade! If you are having a event behind closed doors, just be honest and say that that is what you are doing! Don't try to package it up as something that it isn't. Calling this a "virtual event" is just making a mockery of the whole idea and purpose of virtual events. It is misleading, and potentially dangerous.

Rant over.

CaroLiza_fan
 

moonkat

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Wish they could just do live stream of a competition in with each skater in home rinks. With the money saved on air travel, get some good camera for judging.
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Wish they could just do live stream of a competition in with each skater in home rinks. With the money saved on air travel, get some good camera for judging.

That wouldn't work either, because if the skaters were skating at different rinks, it would not be a fair competition because the conditions they were skating in would be different for each of them.

How many times over the years have we been watching competitions and have ended up complaining about the ice conditions? But, in the end, we always conclude that, although the ice is awful, at least it is still a fair competition because everybody has to deal with the same problems.

It is nigh-on impossible to get the ice to be exactly the same everywhere all the time. Let's face it, if it could be done, it would be! It would be highly desirable to have identical ice conditions during the GP Series, as it would eliminate one of the major variables between each round. And this would stop people complaining that so-and-so only got through to the Final because somebody else struggled with the bad ice.

The location of the ice rink can also affect how a skater performs. For example, how many times over the years have we seen skaters struggling when they are competing in competitions at Colorado Springs, because the rink is at a high altitude where there is less oxygen in the air? So, if we have a competition where skaters compete from their own rink, a skater who trains there would not be skating under the same atmospheric conditions as a skater who trains at a rink located at sea level. Therefore, it would not be a fair competition.

Also, you would need multiple specialist cameramen at each of the rinks to film the routines in a way that the off-site judges can pick out whether elements are done correctly or not. And that in itself could prove problematic, as the rinks are unlikely to have such people locally, so they will have to be brought in.

It's a nice idea in theory, but impossible to make a fair competition out of in practice.

CaroLiza_fan
 

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But, that's not a virtual skating event. A virtual event is where athletes compete in computer game versions of their sport, to keep themselves and fans entertained whilst the real thing is unable to take place due to restrictions. For example:

Virtual MotoGP Round 5: British GP
Virtual Formula 1 Round 8: Canadian GP

This is just a normal figure skating event being held behind closed doors. ...

For goodness sake, Jordan! Just call a spade a spade! If you are having a event behind closed doors, just be honest and say that that is what you are doing! Don't try to package it up as something that it isn't. Calling this a "virtual event" is just making a mockery of the whole idea and purpose of virtual events. It is misleading, and potentially dangerous.

Rant over.

Jordan's description of his "virtual skating exhibition" is absolutely appropriate and understandable to those who are conversant in American English.
(And Jordan is American, of course.)

I strongly object :ddevil: to your characterization of him as less than honest.
I find your rant to be "misleading, and potentially dangerous." :mad:

(Yes, computer simulation games are "virtual." But in the U.S., that usage of the word is not the only common usage.)

ETA:

... Like, it even has group warm-ups where multiple skaters are on the ice at the same time! :shocked:

So much for social distancing. ...

I don't know whether you are joking here?

Only five skaters were in each of the two warm-up groups. Social distancing was in effect except for a few seconds at the beginning and end of the warm-ups, when each group of five entered and exited the ice.
And except for a few seconds at the beginning and end of the curtain call, when the entire cast of ten entered and exited the ice. (If we're going to get super-picky: During the few seconds of the bows, the skaters were spaced apart, but perhaps some of the spacing could have been slightly greater.)​
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Jordan's description of his "virtual skating exhibition" is absolutely appropriate and understandable to those who are conversant in American English.
(And Jordan is American, of course.)

I strongly object :ddevil: to your characterization of him as less than honest.
I find your rant to be "misleading, and potentially dangerous."

(Yes, computer games are "virtual." But in the U.S., that usage of the word is not the only common usage.)

There is just one problem with your argument about this being down to a difference between British English and American English. During the lockdown, NASCAR and Indycar both had a string of virtual races which were in the sense that I am talking about. And they are both American championships.

Just do a search for Indycar virtual and NASCAR virtual, and you will find a whole range of stories from American websites using the phrase "virtual race" in this sense.

Incidentally, once they had finished playing computer games, both series subsequently held a few races behind closed doors, before letting spectators return to race meetings for the first time during July.

By describing a behind-closed-doors event as "virtual" because it is being broadcast online, it gives ideas to unscrupulous people who may try to use this phrase to deceive authorities into believing an event with spectators is something it is not. And that would be dangerous.

I accept that it probably wasn't Jordan's intention to be misleading. But, by using a phrase that has a totally different meaning to a lot of people, it did end up as being misleading.

If he does do another one, I would have 2 pieces of advice: to not describe it as "virtual", and to not have skaters out on the ice together in warm-up groups.

All that aside, I want to applaud him for putting this event together. It takes a lot of work to do something like this at the best of times, never mind when a pandemic is causing so much disruption.

CaroLiza_fan
 

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There is just one problem with your argument about this being down to a difference between British English and American English. During the lockdown, NASCAR and Indycar both had a string of virtual races which were in the sense that I am talking about. And they are both American championships.

Just do a search for Indycar virtual and NASCAR virtual, and you will find a whole range of stories from American websites using the phrase "virtual race" in this sense.

Incidentally, once they had finished playing computer games, both series subsequently held a few races behind closed doors, before letting spectators return to race meetings for the first time during July.

By describing a behind-closed-doors event as "virtual" because it is being broadcast online, it gives ideas to unscrupulous people who may try to use this phrase to deceive authorities into believing an event with spectators is something it is not. And that would be dangerous.

I accept that it probably wasn't Jordan's intention to be misleading. But, by using a phrase that has a totally different meaning to a lot of people, it did end up as being misleading.

If he does do another one, I would have 2 pieces of advice: to not describe it as "virtual", and to not have skaters out on the ice together in warm-up groups.

All that aside, I want to applaud him for putting this event together. It takes a lot of work to do something like this at the best of times, never mind when a pandemic is causing so much disruption.

Jordan was not misleading.
And he did nothing "dangerous."

As I already said in my previous post, U.S. usage of "virtual" has more than one meaning.
You seem to be missing that point entirely.

Before seeing your second post, I had edited my first post to include my response to your concerns over social distancing -- which was in effect except for a few instances lasting merely for seconds.

(Side note that your fixation on "behind closed doors" seems completely irrelevant to me.)

ETA:

Although I do not claim to be conversant in British English, I see that the official royal website offers "virtual tours" of Buckingham Palace. And that the British Museum website offers two "virtual galleries," such as its "Prints and Drawings virtual gallery."
Would most Brits consider offerings like these to be "mockeries" that are "misleading" and "potentially dangerous"?
I am American, but I do not.​


ETA:

... maybe he could even skate at Canadian Nats and submit the score to whatever might pass for US Nats. Wouldn't that be the coolest?:cool:

Forgot that I wanted to give my two cents on this topic.

As a fan of Jason, I do not :noshake: think that it would be cool (even during the pandemic) for USFS to accept a score from Canadian Nats as a skater's score for U.S. Nats.
(Extending that thought, I do not think that a U.S. Nats medal should be based on a score from Canadian Nats.)

That said ... if 2020 U.S. Nats can take place, and 2020 Four Continents and/or 2020 Worlds are expected to take place, then it would be tolerable to me if USFS were to consider a 2020 Canadian Nats score in some way as part of a skater's body of work for the purposes of Four Continents and/or Worlds team selection (if the skater did not compete at 2020 U.S. Nats). In that scenario, I think less weight should be given to a 2020 Canadian Nats score than to 2020 U.S. Nats scores.​
 

CaroLiza_fan

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Jordan was not misleading.
And he did nothing "dangerous."

As I already said in my previous post, U.S. usage of "virtual" has more than one meaning.
You seem to be missing that point entirely.

No, I am not missing that point. In fact, that is my point. That the fact that he is using "virtual" in a different way to the way other people use it means that it is misleading to those other people. And that this event should have been described using a different term where there was not ambiguity over what it meant.

Before seeing your second post, I had edited my first post to include my response to your concerns over social distancing -- which was in effect except for a few instances lasting merely for seconds.

Sorry, it does tend to take me a while from starting to write a comment to actually getting it finished and posted. So, this frequently happens.

I was not joking. I was being perfectly serious.

This event was being billed as an exhibition, not a competition. And exhibitions do not usually have warm-up groups. So why, at a time when we are supposed to be keeping apart, does this particular exhibition have multiple skaters on the ice together when the precedent from other exhibitions says they don't need to be?

That said, I admit that I have often thought it strange that skaters do not get to do a warm-up on the ice shortly before they do their exhibition routines. If they need to do it before their competition routines, surely they should need to do it before their exhibition routines. After all, the only difference is that they are not getting judged in exhibitions. And, let's face it, lots of skaters tend to do more complicated elements in their exhibition routines that are not allowed in competition routines. So, arguably, there is even more need to warm-up before an exhibition routine.

Anyway, getting back to what you said, I didn't wind on as far as the end when I first opened that link. But, I just watched the finale, and I totally agree with you - the skaters were not spaced sufficiently far apart. They stand further apart during the introductions that were brought in to the ISU run competitions a few years ago!

On the one hand, I am relieved that it was not the normal sort of finale we get at exhibition. But on the other hand, I still question the need to have them all out on ice together at the end. Especially since there are no spectators for them to bow to.

And may I just add that I am shocked that you would think that I would joke about something as serious as the pandemic. Yes, I did look at it in a light-hearted way for a short time at the start. But, that was before it became as serious as it has.

(Side note that your fixation on "behind closed doors" seems completely irrelevant to me.)

Why? That's the phrase that is normally used to described events without spectators. And there is no ambiguity about it.

Although I do not claim to be conversant in British English, I see that the official royal website offers "virtual tours" of Buckingham Palace. And that the British Museum website offers two "virtual galleries," such as its "Prints and Drawings virtual gallery."
Would most Brits consider offerings like these to be "mockeries" that are "misleading" and "potentially dangerous"?
I am American, but I do not.

We are not talking about tours. We are talking about sport. And that is the way that the term "virtual" is normally used in sport.

And will you stop continually taking my use of the word "dangerous" out of context. I was using it in relation to the virus, and how holding gatherings like this can help to spread it. Even one without spectators. I thought that was obvious in the way I wrote my first comment. And I even explained it in my second comment to make it even more obvious.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there. I know from past experience that you will never give an inch in an argument, and I've got a lot of other things to do today that are more important than this.

So, let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

CaroLiza_fan
 
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