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Thread: Will Zagitova return?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by flanker View Post
    That Alina didn't want to compete (in fact she considered the pause since the olympics) had nothing to do with the 3A, that's another disrespectful implication.
    If you think that the success of the 3A, and them preventing her from winning anything last season, have had a 0% impact on her decision to take a break then there's really nothing to discuss. Having an outlook that's different than yours isn't disrespectful.

  2. #162
    Medalist colormyworld240's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The title of the thread is "Will Zagitova Return?" I don't think anyone who doesn't think she will is expressing that in a disrespectful or negative manner. For me, it's really a matter of observing that a big cause of her burn-out was the rise of the 3A and them preventing her from winning anything. If she wants to compete to win, all three of those top Russians (and the JW champion) need to lose their big jumps.
    It's not disrespectful to think she will not return. I don't know if she will - it's a toss up. However, it's disrespectful to proclaim she's "done" when she hasn't said so. And to make up stories that she isn't consistent because of her technique that relies on a child's body, when Alina herself has spoken about her issues. She did say that she grew and had to work on regaining her jumps and adjusting them to fit her new body, and she worked on it. She also said she struggled at first. But the meltdowns she had in the competitions following the Olympics were mental; that she had to deal with the media and what people were saying about her which is not something she had before. And all her run throughs have been mostly clean in all the competitions post Olympics with the exception of Euros 2018 I believe. If it were a technical issue, it would be across all skates. It's disrespectful to disregard everything she's saying and insert one's own narrative.

    Alina is not the only skater who has been inconsistent. Many of the most accomplished recent skaters have had bad skates after great skates. Osmond, Kihira, Medvedeva, Kostner, Tuktamysheva, etc. And yet when most of these skaters had bad skates, the narrative was that they were adjusting their technique and it takes time. But when Alina does, it's because her technique is failing, no work is being done to change it, and she's done. It cannot be that it's actually mental or that she's working on it like she expressed, for the sole reason that her coach is Eteri and therefore she does not have her own voice.

    As for retiring at their peak in terms of medals, it's great when an athlete decides to do that, and their career should be celebrated. But obviously it's not the case for every athlete, otherwise Alina would've retired right after the Olympics, Liza would've retired in 2015, and Evgenia would've retired in 2017. It's up to each athlete as an individual, and only they can decide what's best for them.

  3. #163
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    Alina also knew what her rinkmates were practicing and preparing to do in competition. I don't think Alina, Zhenya, or Liza expected to "win" anything outright against the likes of Anna, Sasha, and Aliona (and/or Rika for that matter) with their full arsenal, but still believed they could put up strong skates and show new things. If beating all her rinkmates was the goal, Alina probably wouldn't have competed at all this season. I definitely think that can be a consideration for skaters retiring, and I can think of several examples in recent years, but it doesn't quite make sense for Alina post-2019 Worlds.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by colormyworld240 View Post
    Alina is not the only skater who has been inconsistent. Many of the most accomplished recent skaters have had bad skates after great skates. Osmond, Kihira, Medvedeva, Kostner, Tuktamysheva, etc. And yet when most of these skaters had bad skates, the narrative was that they were adjusting their technique and it takes time. But when Alina does, it's because her technique is failing, no work is being done to change it, and she's done. It cannot be that it's actually mental or that she's working on it like she expressed, for the sole reason that her coach is Eteri and therefore she does not have her own voice.
    Every one of those skaters except Rika has been written off at some point. Osmond made a nice comeback in 2018, Kostner and Liza several times, and we have yet to see whether Evgenia regains her best form in the future. Alina's technique on the triple jumps seems fine to me, aside from the occasional flutz, and if skaters can win with 3-3s and triples through the lutz again Alina would be in the mix. Having doubts about whether Alina wants to go through grueling training just to compete for bronze medals after winning everything doesn't mean I think her technique is terrible. You people need to stop thinking disagreeing with her stated motivations is somehow disrespectful. Hypothetically (and I don't think this is the case), if she were afraid of facing the 3A in competition and withdrew from Nationals as a result, do you think she would admit this? Of course not, because no one would.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Every one of those skaters except Rika has been written off at some point. Osmond made a nice comeback in 2018, Kostner and Liza several times, and we have yet to see whether Evgenia regains her best form in the future. Alina's technique on the triple jumps seems fine to me, aside from the occasional flutz, and if skaters can win with 3-3s and triples through the lutz again Alina would be in the mix. Having doubts about whether Alina wants to go through grueling training just to compete for bronze medals after winning everything doesn't mean I think her technique is terrible. You people need to stop thinking disagreeing with her stated motivations is somehow disrespectful. Hypothetically (and I don't think this is the case), if she were afraid of facing the 3A in competition and withdrew from Nationals as a result, do you think she would admit this? Of course not, because no one would.
    If Liza has announced she will work on putting a quad into her program next season, I'm sure Alina is capable of that as well. Of course I'm not stating it will surely happen, but if Liza isn't sent to retirement and people clap to her announcement, I don't know why they have to express "disagreeing with her stated motivations" so portentously.

    If there is a chance to gain a quad (and Alina obviously trained it with some degree of success, she is not the type who would mention a quad without some confidence in her own capability) then with one, possibly two quads, she can be very strong competitor (she is a strong competitor even without quads, actually ).

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    Every one of those skaters except Rika has been written off at some point. Osmond made a nice comeback in 2018, Kostner and Liza several times, and we have yet to see whether Evgenia regains her best form in the future. Alina's technique on the triple jumps seems fine to me, aside from the occasional flutz, and if skaters can win with 3-3s and triples through the lutz again Alina would be in the mix. Having doubts about whether Alina wants to go through grueling training just to compete for bronze medals after winning everything doesn't mean I think her technique is terrible. You people need to stop thinking disagreeing with her stated motivations is somehow disrespectful. Hypothetically (and I don't think this is the case), if she were afraid of facing the 3A in competition and withdrew from Nationals as a result, do you think she would admit this? Of course not, because no one would.
    When the other skaters struggled, the narrative was that they were adapting and working, not that their technique was failing them because they didn't have a child's body anymore. That only applies to Alina (or Eteri skaters in general - once they leave Eteri or if they're coached by anyone but Eteri, they're working on it, but under Eteri, they're not). I'm sure if Alina were to go to another coach tomorrow and have the same struggles, the narrative would change to she's struggling because they're adapting her technique. This is just lumping Alina into the "Eteri group" and not an individual skater. I don't know who you're referring to with "you people" but you clearly haven't read my comments. They specifically outline the issue I have is with people saying her technique is terrible and that's why she has been struggling, as opposed to Alina saying she was struggling mentally and adapted her technique after her growth spurt. Of course all skaters want to win and not just fight for bronze, Alina is no exception to that. Whether she is going to continue to work on that, no one knows. But she did cite the lack of motivation for her break, so it depends on if she is able to find that.

  7. #167
    Tripping on the Podium VenusHalley's Avatar
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    Well, the comments connected to body come from what Alina says: "close your mouth and don't eat". "! did limit my water intake during Olympics". "I would have to lose weight to be able jump quad".

    She and plenty of other of Eteri skaters tout this. Eteri's jump technique seems to be "starve yourself and jerk your back".

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    Quote Originally Posted by nussnacker View Post
    So... it worked the night of her short program, but stopped working when she did her free.

    I don’t know what technique Alina has been taught, apparently it turns off and on by a magical switch button.

    Not only that, but Alina did all (or almost all) of her runthroughs clean this season. She was flawless in her runthroughs at IDF and same about NHK, and I’m pretty sure GPF too. Not sure what kind of technique issue is that.

    To me it looks like it was all psychological. Alina said, she didn’t do well at NHK in her short, but did do well in her free, because there was a lack of a competitive drive the first day, she needs adrenaline to be able to go out there. The unfortunate performance fueled her up to do well on her fp.

    I don’t know why people keep repeating some things they heard from TSL like a mantra over and over again, as if they know all the techniques and are technicians themselves.
    What I meant is that it will never work with the same ease and consistency, and it's not just TSL. I do'nt support them much anymore after some awful things they said to me via a message but it's not completely nonsensical. Explain to me what happened to Shelepen, Yulia, Zhenya, Skirda....

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusHalley View Post
    Well, the comments connected to body come from what Alina says: "close your mouth and don't eat". "! did limit my water intake during Olympics". "I would have to lose weight to be able jump quad".

    She and plenty of other of Eteri skaters tout this. Eteri's jump technique seems to be "starve yourself and jerk your back".
    Well if they do that for as long as they can, once they inevitably begin to grow it doesn't matter because the next one is ready. But though unsustainable, I do think that Eteri's technique is brilliant. From the packaging to the jumps to the rotation and motivational factor, I do believe that Alina at her peak, just like all the other eteri girls at their respective peaks, was a brilliant skater. IT's just sad that we don't treat these girl's as potential filled 15 year olds anymore,but simply as ticking time bombs.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by colormyworld240 View Post
    When the other skaters struggled, the narrative was that they were adapting and working, not that their technique was failing them because they didn't have a child's body anymore. That only applies to Alina (or Eteri skaters in general - once they leave Eteri or if they're coached by anyone but Eteri, they're working on it, but under Eteri, they're not).
    There are a lot of skaters who faced difficulty adjusting their technique after growing, including skaters like Mao Asada. Why does the reason of people questioning her technique matter?

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by eterislouisvuitton View Post
    What I meant is that it will never work with the same ease and consistency, and it's not just TSL. I do'nt support them much anymore after some awful things they said to me via a message but it's not completely nonsensical. Explain to me what happened to Shelepen, Yulia, Zhenya, Skirda....
    The same thing which happened to Caroline Zhang, Karen Chen, Marin Honda, Zijun Li, Stephan Gogolev and million of others. Injures happened, lack of training happened, growing up happened, private life happened. Explain to me how Caro had so many ups and downs in her skating performances, if her technique is 'ideal' one. There is no ideal technique which making you win, what is important is ideal athletic (and mental) form/condition/shape/readiness at the moment of the competition, like in every other sport.

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    I thought they said Zagitova struggled because of tripping on a cord, her grandmother burning her, and a cut caused by her falling at competition. Overall, it was noted she struggled mentally with the pressure.
    She did seem to struggle more with rotations and jump landings last season. I just searched her Olympic performance and you can clearly see the decline.
    It will be very exciting to see where she places if she returns

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrashergurl View Post
    I thought they said Zagitova struggled because of tripping on a cord, her grandmother burning her, and a cut caused by her falling at competition. Overall, it was noted she struggled mentally with the pressure.
    She did seem to struggle more with rotations and jump landings last season. I just searched her Olympic performance and you can clearly see the decline.
    It will be very exciting to see where she places if she returns
    You can do that with any skater, just put his best skate and compare it with anything else and then say you can see the decline. I can take Alina's skates from Euros 2019 and then from Worlds the same year and say "you can clearly see the progress"

    But that's just oversimplification that can be easily misused.

  14. #174
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    I appreciate your optimism

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    Saw a post on Instagram that Zagitova will not immediately join the rest of the national team for training but at a later date. I get that she's got school exams. But that's just going to fuel the speculation that she's not invested/interested in continuing to compete.

  16. #176
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    Don't they all have school exams?
    Alexandra and Alena have also been talking about the exams in every recent interview. Idk how the Russian school system works, especially not the alternative one they are in, but can they be having the same exams even though they are 3 years apart in age?

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by colormyworld240 View Post
    It's not disrespectful to think she will not return. I don't know if she will - it's a toss up. However, it's disrespectful to proclaim she's "done" when she hasn't said so. And to make up stories that she isn't consistent because of her technique that relies on a child's body, when Alina herself has spoken about her issues. She did say that she grew and had to work on regaining her jumps and adjusting them to fit her new body, and she worked on it. She also said she struggled at first. But the meltdowns she had in the competitions following the Olympics were mental; that she had to deal with the media and what people were saying about her which is not something she had before. And all her run throughs have been mostly clean in all the competitions post Olympics with the exception of Euros 2018 I believe. If it were a technical issue, it would be across all skates. It's disrespectful to disregard everything she's saying and insert one's own narrative.

    Alina is not the only skater who has been inconsistent. Many of the most accomplished recent skaters have had bad skates after great skates. Osmond, Kihira, Medvedeva, Kostner, Tuktamysheva, etc. And yet when most of these skaters had bad skates, the narrative was that they were adjusting their technique and it takes time. But when Alina does, it's because her technique is failing, no work is being done to change it, and she's done. It cannot be that it's actually mental or that she's working on it like she expressed, for the sole reason that her coach is Eteri and therefore she does not have her own voice.

    As for retiring at their peak in terms of medals, it's great when an athlete decides to do that, and their career should be celebrated. But obviously it's not the case for every athlete, otherwise Alina would've retired right after the Olympics, Liza would've retired in 2015, and Evgenia would've retired in 2017. It's up to each athlete as an individual, and only they can decide what's best for them.
    Your entire post was tremendous. But your second paragraph truly takes the cake. Thanks.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrashergurl View Post
    I thought they said Zagitova struggled because of tripping on a cord, her grandmother burning her, and a cut caused by her falling at competition. Overall, it was noted she struggled mentally with the pressure.
    She did seem to struggle more with rotations and jump landings last season. I just searched her Olympic performance and you can clearly see the decline.
    It will be very exciting to see where she places if she returns
    Tripping on the cord and getting a hematoma on her right ankle the size of a banana cost Alina the Grand Prix final of 2018. But she went out there with a horrible hematoma and still performed to take the silver. True warrior GOAT! If I was in her camp I never would have let her skate with that injury or with the burns on her ankle at Nationals. She is tougher than she looks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight97 View Post
    Don't they all have school exams?
    Alexandra and Alena have also been talking about the exams in every recent interview. Idk how the Russian school system works, especially not the alternative one they are in, but can they be having the same exams even though they are 3 years apart in age?
    I'm not sure when they happen exactly but Alina may also have University entrance exams as well as school exams?

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amei View Post
    Saw a post on Instagram that Zagitova will not immediately join the rest of the national team for training but at a later date. I get that she's got school exams. But that's just going to fuel the speculation that she's not invested/interested in continuing to compete.
    She has exams and she is finishing high school so on so these are probably very important tests. They've already chosen her music for next season. Alina is coming back and she won't lose any fans if she's not medaling at every competition.

    At this point I just hope there is a season.

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