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Thread: Rescoring of 2010 Olympics

  1. #221
    Making rhinestone vest and tie combos cool anonymoose_au's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    So, with all the correct factoring and such, final standings from this judging panel is actually:

    1. Takahashi
    2. Lysacek
    3. Plushenko (would drop behind Weir by .01 point if his SP spin were to be called Level 3)
    4. Weir
    5. Chan (could be in 3rd if it was decided the Level 1 call on his SP combo spin was incorrect)
    6. Kozuka
    7. Lambiel
    8. Oda
    Well I'm glad Plushy got a bronze here, TBH I was dreading the outcome of this thread and expected to see him down in 10th place because to hear some people talk apparently these were the Worst. Programs. Evah and an offence to all right thinking individuals.

    I really enjoyed them so

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    There's nothing in the rules that say loops need to be a specific proportion to count. If it's a full one-foot turn without swapping edge that creates a circular tracing, it's a loop. He does go back in the direction he started and he's not trying to force the turn either. It's fluid and there's still a circle created on the ice on that first one (not so much on the second one, it's right to call that incomplete, but it's not a bad movement either; I'm pretty sure he was never trying to do that as a clear loop, looking at other performances of the program). Doing a loop with more speed and a tighter lobe is not poor technique, it's just different. Some people might only be capable of doing slower loops in a "traditional" motion, and would lose flow or balance if they tried it more aggressively or stylized.
    Doing a loop with a lobe that is tight or skidded IS improper technique. Calling it “just different” is ignoring poor execution. Just because the intent is a loop does not mean it’s not poor technique. But clearly the tech panel either missed that or was lenient and gave him a level 4 because the turns were “good enough” to them. A loop can still be done aggressively or stylized without skidding or scratching on the toe pick. Takahashi executed that first loop better earlier in the season but just didn’t happen to in that performance. And the tech panel let it slide like other calls/non-calls that have been or haven’t been brought up. But if you’re going to come for Lysacek’s footwork, at least be fair in your assessment across the board. I’m sorry that our rescoring didn’t have Takahashi come out on top... and it was clear that you thought it would happen based on your initial push to add points to Takahashi and remove from Lysacek... and continued insistence that Takahashi would have won under your tech calls... but Lysacek came out on top in this rescoring. If it makes you sleep better believing that Takahashi won a just-for-fun fantasy rescoring, all good - you do you boo.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose_au View Post
    Well I'm glad Plushy got a bronze here, TBH I was dreading the outcome of this thread and expected to see him down in 10th place because to hear some people talk apparently these were the Worst. Programs. Evah and an offence to all right thinking individuals.

    I really enjoyed them so
    His programs were the worst but IMO he should not be off the podium. It would create a scandal if with the only skater with two essentially clean skates with the highest technical content (quads) was off the podium.

    I also think it would have created a controversy if anyone other than Plushenko or Lysacek won. We can go on about PCS and Takahashi’s brilliant skating but he had a fall and did no quad in the short - and him winning would have been bad for figure skating and truists would be spending the next 4 years explaining someone who falls and executed no quad can win the Olympics over clean skates.

  4. #224
    Making rhinestone vest and tie combos cool anonymoose_au's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    His programs were the worst but IMO he should not be off the podium. It would create a scandal if with the only skater with two essentially clean skates with the highest technical content (quads) was off the podium.

    I also think it would have created a controversy if anyone other than Plushenko or Lysacek won. We can go on about PCS and Takahashi’s brilliant skating but he had a fall and did no quad in the short - and him winning would have been bad for figure skating and truists would be spending the next 4 years explaining someone who falls and executed no quad can win the Olympics over clean skates.
    Maybe? Dai is super popular and much beloved, so I'm not sure there would have been such an outrage. I always got the feeling Plushy wouldn't have minded losing to Dai, after all Dai did have a quad in the free at least.

    You're are right about these not been very good programs, but I loved the Tango Amore costume (see avatar) but this ain't a fashion show.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose_au View Post
    Maybe? Dai is super popular and much beloved, so I'm not sure there would have been such an outrage. I always got the feeling Plushy wouldn't have minded losing to Dai, after all Dai did have a quad in the free at least.

    You're are right about these not been very good programs, but I loved the Tango Amore costume (see avatar) but this ain't a fashion show.
    Daisukes quad was worth 0 points as he got 4pts for UR quad, -3 on the GOE, then one point fall deduction.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolyadafan2002 View Post
    Daisukes quad was worth 0 points as he got 4pts for UR quad, -3 on the GOE, then one point fall deduction.
    Wow, really I'd forgotten he'd fallen on it I thought it was on the 3A (was that Stephane?) Obviously I haven't watched this is forever.

  7. #227
    Skating is Art, if you let it be Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    The Girl Without A Face
    ^ Yep but Plushenko still probably respected the effort more. And it's a joke he got 0 points for it, when starting the program with a 2Axel easily could have pulled 5 points instead. Just a bad scale of values at the time, or could still be seen as a bad call too, considering the amount of rotation he got on that quad.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Doing a loop with a lobe that is tight or skidded IS improper technique.
    Not necessarily, and there is nothing in the rules against it, in terms of base value. This isn't a set pattern dance. The goal is not to mimic one specific thing. The goal is to show turns that meet the base definition, incorporated into a choreography and timing suited to the character and expression of the program and music. His loop was not skidded anyway, and the lobe was not so tight that it would no longer fit the definition.

    Do you realize that you could purposefully skid the turn (could be well suited to rock music) and it would require more technique to properly execute such a thing? You would be changing the balance point and need to complete the turn with more strength to push through. If someone doesn't do it right they would come to a standstill or fail to create enough of a circle. Or for example in doing a tighter lobe, someone could do a very fast and well extended illusion position in their loop turn, which is also more difficult than a typical loop turn, regardless if it is on that tighter curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Calling it “just different” is ignoring poor execution.
    No, it's looking at different ways to perform something and show skill. His loop was not poorly executed, you're reaching by trying to claim that. It had flow and balance and proper turning, not to mention the upper body usage while doing it. You are also contradicting yourself by trying to say it can be performed more aggressively or stylized, but must conform to your specific method. If you are purposefully and skillfully making the lobe smaller or bigger, or altering your blade usage to create a different amount of height or a "snap" effect, then it is inherently going to be different. It doesn't show poor execution to do such a thing.

    I'm actually now thinking of how extraordinarily difficult it would be to do a loop turn where you go up on your toepick at the midway point, do a full spin, and then come back down on the correct edge and complete the turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I’m sorry that our rescoring didn’t have Takahashi come out on top.
    It did though. The calls were examined and decided. Note that with the scores of the sitting panel in 2010, none of the placements would have changed with the calls I've talked about. Also, our recent panel marked Takahashi 9.5 points closer from GOE and PCS alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I also think it would have created a controversy if anyone other than Plushenko or Lysacek won. We can go on about PCS and Takahashi’s brilliant skating but he had a fall
    How convenient of you to think that Takahashi with 1 fall would be a big controversy, and yet Patrick Chan winning with many falls or similar mistakes is not only something you claim to be non-controversial, but also always a deserved win in your opinion.

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