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Thread: Alena Kostornaia leaving Eteri

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott512 View Post

    Plushenko is a blabbermouth. There was no reason for him to divulge such a conversation. Just like there was no reason for EG to divulge that conversation she had with Zhenyz about keeping Alina in juniors one more season.
    Agree the coaches need to learn to keep their mouths shut. I even wonder if they made up / distorted those comments they "reported". I wouldn't put it past either one of them.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernovaimplosion View Post
    I dont think there's anything wrong with lying in an interview to not hurt feelings. Nor do I think Alena was wrong to tell Plushenko that she didn't like her programs. I just find it rude that he shared her comments like that. I don't think when she told him, she expected him to share it with world. I dunno this isnt against Alena or anything but it was inappropriate for him to share it.
    Agree 100%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colormyworld240 View Post
    Are you sure you're not talking about a select few programs?
    I’m quite sure of my opinion and I’m not talking about a select few. I mean nearly all of them.

    But can you seriously say that Dream Catcher, Stella's Theme, Adios Nonino, the Angel, Black Swan, A Comme Amour, Perfume, Firebird, and Me Voy are all copy-and-paste choreography with no relation to the music?
    Yes, I can seriously say this. I watched them all and the only ones I enjoyed were Black Swan and Me Voy. But the thing is I didn’t enjoy those because of the choreography. I enjoyed them despite it. The biggest offenders on your list to me are Adios Nonino and Perfume. They were nearly unwatchable to me. Perfume eventually grew on me, but again, this is despite the choreography and all because of Shcherbakova.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex D View Post
    I have to admit, it can be quite interesting reading the thoughts of fans in sports. The part of the "skater x did like the post, while y did not and therefore those must be on the list" was my favorite I believe.

    <snip>
    I am an old man who limits my social media presence to complaining about traffic and wishing my nieces and nephews "Happy Birthday" on Facebook.

    But my very with-it son tells me that on younger-trending social media platforms, "liking" a post can be very ambiguous. It can mean "I genuinely respect what you're saying here." It can also mean "I'm taking pleasure from watching your meltdown." It can even be used as verbal eye-rolling, "You just keep on being you... whatever that is."

    It's all very confusing to me. I wonder if this dynamic is alive and well in Russia, because I can't imagine someone really liking a post in which the author had meanspirited things to say about me.

  5. #505
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    If we explore the facts given so far :
    - Aliona had announced her FS music choices and formed StSq, but yet her SP
    - Aliona haven't been successful in getting back her 3A into her program(s) (Aliona's Olympic interview)
    - This was a sudden decision from Aliona (not yet a fact but this is the only thing ET, DG and EP had in common in their interviews)
    - The information 1st published from Eteri herself, not Aliona, the press, Rusfed or Plush side.

    I want to go into detail about this spin about Aliona's supposed finished 2 programs from ET camp, I have doubt that it has been completed as in both FS & SP with the desired cuts and technical layouts. Aliona might have genuinely liked the general concept and vibe of her FS, but not the layouts or her unpublished SP and that became a tipping point for Aliona who has been quietly considering the transfer since Rozanov's move.

    I have no doubts that this is purely Aliona's decision in search of the best strategy going into pre-olympic season, to join her main tech advisor who gave her the weapon of her success last season; 3A in the SP.

    As in this debacle about "white lies" in public, I felt like the adults of the Rus FS professional community always has only their own interest while talking to the press, so why can't Aliona? she's the child here but one of the only ones who never throw anyone under the bus to safe her face (not that there are a lot of chances for her to do so, strangely she has the least commercial presence out of her peers while having the same if not more medals, being 3 times national medalist)

  6. #506
    Hot Tonto TontoK's Avatar
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    This thread has inspired me to change my avatar moniker to "Hot Tonto" to differentiate me from all the other Tonto's.

  7. #507
    Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps el henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    This thread has inspired me to change my avatar moniker to "Hot Tonto" to differentiate me from all the other Tonto's.
    You win the internet for the day

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by colormyworld240 View Post
    I find the Plushenko's comment that Alena didn't like her programs was strange and out of character for her. It was just last season when Alena herself said in an interview that of course she gets to pick her programs and has a say in it, she's the one skating it not her coaches. If she didn't like her programs, I would think that she would've spoken to her coaches. And after her first season with the team (when she had her lyrical Stella's Theme choreographed by Daniil), she gave an interview saying she doesn't like slow lyrical pieces and prefers something faster and more edgy. It was also around that time they changed her FS from the lyrical piece to Twilight. She also said publicly that she doesn't like being seen in the image of an angel, referencing her SP.

    It would be strange for her to be "lying publicly" all those times to explain all those different music choices, no? It would be more likely that Plushenko was lying or the publisher/interviewer.
    Oh man. Is it really that difficult to understand that interview answers are no different than diplomatic weighing up? Sometimes it fits more to reality, sometimes it fits less. It depends on the situation. These athletes are part of a system according to which they have to play. Point. You cannot say that this person is always telling the truth and the other is always lying. Here in the forum many posters think permanently in black and white, in every respect. I often wonder how old these posters are, their life experience seems to be that of a child.

    PS: I'm just noticing that my post sounds a bit aggressive. Please kindly ignore this.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopsilceci View Post
    Or maybe... you know, she was actually being honest at the time she gave the interviews?
    I have no doubts Eteri gave 110% and feels hurt when they leave, but there are multiple ways to say the truth.
    In this event I particurarily did not like going back to Julia and Zenya.


    And yes, Julia, Zhenya, now Trusova and Kosto wouldn't be who they are (in the fs world) without their partnership with Team Tutberidze and viceversa.
    100% agree, but who Eteri woul be without her champions?
    That is especially true for Julia and Zenya.

    Now Eteri is the absolute top and every talented girl wants to work with her so she has an infinite amount of talent in the pen and inbdividuals count less, but her status derives from the gold her skaters won on the ice.
    It goes both ways like in any other sport.
    Legendary coach always had the priviledge to train the most talented, like the most talented usually work with the best coaches.
    It's like top driver usually ending up racing on the best car/bike in motorsport.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBibus View Post
    I have no doubts Eteri gave 110% and feels hurt when they leave, but there are multiple ways to say the truth.
    In this event I particurarily did not like going back to Julia and Zenya.
    I'm just laughing at the "logic" we see now. Plushy said "the programs were awful, therefore Aliona must have hated all her programs and was just polite publicly. We all swear on this as a holy truth."

    Quote Originally Posted by McBibus View Post
    100% agree, but who Eteri woul be without her champions?
    That is especially true for Julia and Zenya.

    Now Eteri is the absolute top and every talented girl wants to work with her so she has an infinite amount of talent in the pen and inbdividuals count less, but her status derives from the gold her skaters won on the ice.
    It goes both ways like in any other sport.
    Legendary coach always had the priviledge to train the most talented, like the most talented usually work with the best coaches.
    It's like top driver usually ending up racing on the best car/bike in motorsport.
    Once again it should be reminded that most of the girls through "generations", let's point Alina, Aliona and Kamila to differ them, haven't the strongest results behind when they moved to Eteri. For me it's still Eteri who takes raw carbon and cuts diamonds of it, while Plushy so far just buys those diamonds on the open market. So unless he won't create jewells out of them I don't feel any respect to his coaching abilities. Yes, he has a chance now to enhance his appearance now, but till I see some significant results of his own coaching work (I don't mean work of his money), I don't feel much respect to him.

  11. #511
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    I read you. I don't know what happened as you also don't know. No one knows among us. But the things aren't black or white.

    I said not once I know Plush's personality as you can know somebody if you read everything on him and have some secret informations. I'm sure if Plushenko bought the skaters he would tell publicly. "I can do that. I had negotiations with the skaters, parents and agreed." Why not? He wouldn't receive more attacks! Plus that is less risky. Can you imagine if one of the skaters leaves him and says: Evgeni Viktorovich payed for me X money in 2020 but.. The secrets is not secret anymore if that is known for more than one person.

    I believe this whole thing started from Eteri and her co. I don't blame them for it but this is possible. What they see: Plushenko has a good new academy with great opportunities. There were informations he has knowledge of course, that was likely. He is succesful as a businessman he is dangerous. And then some good skaters went to the academy immediately(probably too early they weren't in the plan)...

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by flanker View Post
    I'm just laughing at the "logic" we see now. Plushy said "the programs were awful, therefore Aliona must have hated all her programs and was just polite publicly. We all swear on this as a holy truth."
    .
    It’s so tiring. Over and over again the same procedure when slipping into the victim role. One assumes to others statements that they have never made and then accuses the others because of these fictitious statements. You could call this the Tutberidze fan effect. And is delusional.
    Everyone thinks Plushy's statement was polite and correct? That's ridiculous! No one, not even Plushyfan, said anything in that direction.

  13. #513
    Bona Fide Member yume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernovaimplosion View Post
    I dont think there's anything wrong with lying in an interview to not hurt feelings. Nor do I think Alena was wrong to tell Plushenko that she didn't like her programs. I just find it rude that he shared her comments like that. I don't think when she told him, she expected him to share it with world. I dunno this isnt against Alena or anything but it was inappropriate for him to share it.
    His lack of class is equal to Eteri's. Throwing your student under the bus and insulting a colleague.
    I can't imagine the outcry if Eteri had said that his work with Tarakanova and Sakhanovich was "awful". Every coach in Russia would have given a comment about that, since it would have seemed way more disrespectful coming from Eteri's mouth, because it's Eteri.

    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    No. Rozanov was the tech coach and he received little spotlight for that as you said he was the 3rd but not in the working. That was the reason why he left the team. The pupils loved and admired him.
    I think he was "one of" the tech coaches since Dudakov was there before him and is still there. I don't think he's the one who had the secret potion of quads and bring it to the team. Trusova and Shcherbavoka were already landing quads in practice at 12yo before he joined the team. I think Dudakov's hands were too full so they hired him for help. But i think his working methods helped skaters to get the jumps faster so Dudakov gave him more responsabilities with novice and juniors as he was their main tech trainer. And worked with seniors too.
    Eteri and Dudakov are the head coaches as Orser and Tracy Wilson are head coaches of TTC. Ghislain Briand works at TTC since at least 10 years and i never seen him listed as a coach. It just these past two seasons that i've seen at some competitions, probaably when Tracy couldn't go. Daniil is coaching too apparently but isn't listed as a coach.
    I think that's how it works in big training centers. Not everyone can be the head coach.
    About money Gleikhengauz said in an interview that the first years he wasn't making much money but it's better now. So it seems that you have to be patient.

    I think Rozanov is an intelligent guy who knows that he has some talent and who wants fame quickly (maybe too quickly). He learned what he could learn in two years at sambo and took the first opportunity to rise.

    The challenge for him won't be to keep the jumps, i think he can do that. The challenge will be to keep the skaters in shape and consistents all the season.

  14. #514
    Bona Fide Member plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried View Post
    It’s so tiring. Over and over again the same procedure when slipping into the victim role. One assumes to others statements that they have never made and then accuses the others because of these fictitious statements. You could call this the Tutberidze fan effect. And is delusional.
    Everyone thinks Plushy's statement was polite and correct? That's ridiculous! No one, not even Plushyfan, said anything in that direction.
    I wasn't happy because of it. I believe Alyona said she doesn't like the programs but the "horror" word was rude. I believe that was a part of the war. There are many incomprehensible and very controversial things in this case. If I have time I'm going to collect the moments of the war from the beginning. (That is going to be hard because of the death of Cekoni... When she worked we can find everything on Plush's official site in very logic method.)

  15. #515
    #сердцемсЗагитовой nussnacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried View Post
    It’s so tiring. Over and over again the same procedure when slipping into the victim role. One assumes to others statements that they have never made and then accuses the others because of these fictitious statements. You could call this the Tutberidze fan effect. And is delusional.
    Everyone thinks Plushy's statement was polite and correct? That's ridiculous! No one, not even Plushyfan, said anything in that direction.
    You completely misunderstood what Flanker wrote. Maybe that’s Fried-effect? misunderstanding and being angry about it.

    Flanker alludes that Plushenko‘s words shouldn’t be taken at face value, that’s all. He didn’t say that „someone said Plushenko was politically correct“, he meant that just because Plushenko said what he said, shouldn’t mean that conversation actually ever took place (and Plushenko was known over the years to exaggerate and make conflicting statements) and that therefore it shouldn’t mean Aliona was just being „correct“ and telling white lies in her interview. Maybe Aliona spoke her mind (as she actually usually does or used to do), and Plushenko was just trying to be mean and playing his media games to be hurtful.

  16. #516
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    At least I will be looking forward to the choreography of Sasha & Aljona's StSq. I liked Tarakanova's very much when she was at Plushenko so I have hope! Also, why did so many people blame Sasha's Dad for the coaching change, but now with Aljona, it's purely herself? We don't know exactly why they two left so we should focus on more positive things like guessing the new program or costume changes. I guess Aljona's costumes weren't designed yet?

  17. #517
    Bona Fide Member yume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resa View Post
    Also, why did so many people blame Sasha's Dad for the coaching change, but now with Aljona, it's purely herself?
    Maybe because Aliona is the only one who had the guts to tell Eteri face to face that she was leaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resa View Post
    At least I will be looking forward to the choreography of Sasha & Aljona's StSq. I liked Tarakanova's very much when she was at Plushenko so I have hope!
    Yeah the stsq of the free was fire. Who choreographed this program?

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by nussnacker View Post
    You completely misunderstood what Flanker wrote. Maybe that’s Fried-effect? misunderstanding and being angry about it.

    Flanker alludes that Plushenko‘s words shouldn’t be taken at face value, that’s all. He didn’t say that „someone said Plushenko was politically correct“, he meant that just because Plushenko said what he said, shouldn’t mean that conversation actually ever took place (and Plushenko was known over the years to exaggerate and make conflicting statements) and that therefore it shouldn’t mean Aliona was just being „correct“ and telling white lies in her interview. Maybe Aliona spoke her mind (as she actually usually does or used to do), and Plushenko was just trying to be mean and playing his media games to be hurtful.
    OK. It was very early in the morning, almost in bed. I probably misinterpreted it. Sorry. But this permanent talk of "Everyone is against Eteri" is extremely annoying. I don't know how it is in other places (I only read here), but in the GS Forum the Eteri disciples seem to me to be far more penetrative than the Eteri opponents. I am neither one nor the other, but the disciples literally challenge resistance. There is a solid reason that there is currently a lot of criticism.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopsilceci View Post
    Are you suggesting that Aliona is a two-faced liar?
    Its called Public Relations and professionalism. She's not supposed to talk bad about her coaching team in public while she's still with them. Any grievances is discussed in private.

    Just like I'm not supposed to talk bad about my company in public while I'm still working with them/representing the company.
    Even if my colleague is incompetent & the customer complaints abt him/her is true I must still defend the company.

  20. #520
    GS Supporter flanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nussnacker View Post
    You completely misunderstood what Flanker wrote. Maybe that’s Fried-effect? misunderstanding and being angry about it.

    Flanker alludes that Plushenko‘s words shouldn’t be taken at face value, that’s all. He didn’t say that „someone said Plushenko was politically correct“, he meant that just because Plushenko said what he said, shouldn’t mean that conversation actually ever took place (and Plushenko was known over the years to exaggerate and make conflicting statements) and that therefore it shouldn’t mean Aliona was just being „correct“ and telling white lies in her interview. Maybe Aliona spoke her mind (as she actually usually does or used to do), and Plushenko was just trying to be mean and playing his media games to be hurtful.
    Thanks

    I was just making fun of the amount of comments that seriously started to work with the presumption that Aliona never liked her programs in the past, those comments appeared just after Plushy's usual nice, modest and decent talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Fried View Post
    It’s so tiring. Over and over again the same procedure when slipping into the victim role. One assumes to others statements that they have never made and then accuses the others because of these fictitious statements. You could call this the Tutberidze fan effect. And is delusional.
    Everyone thinks Plushy's statement was polite and correct? That's ridiculous! No one, not even Plushyfan, said anything in that direction.
    As nussnacker said, I didn't indicate anything about that someone is approving the way Plushy said that. Just that the idea of Aliona never liking her programs is nothing more than a construct. You just shouldn't see enemies mindlessly everywhere you turn to, scold people, call names and behave this way. No wonder you say there's no discussion with the people, no one who just have a different opinion on some things is interested to discuss anything with you if you act like this to anyone whïth whom you disagree

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