Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

dunffvanstorn · Aug 1, 2020

lopsilceci said:
Then I'm afraid it will be impossible to believe anything Aliona says publicly from now on, or at least, not to take it with a grain of salt. :confused2:

And this version makes the circumstances in which she left look even worse from her side.

Funny how you think decency=lying in public

These are not “lies”. Imagine telling Eteri and Daniil you don’t like a program. What would they say? Imagine telling the world you don’t like the program your coach has done to you - this is a matter of politeness and survival.

nussnacker · Aug 1, 2020

plushyfan said:
No. That was Mishin's opinion. He had debate with Tarasova they were in very bad relationship for years because of that. Evgeny was just a 19. y.o. guy he talked about his feelings for Mishin. That was an interesting story. Zhenya( Plush) was ill after the competition he lost 5 kg and the doctors didn't find any reason. In his biography he talked about it and he said he doesn't believe it.

No, Plushenko actually said that himself

dhjh811 · Aug 1, 2020

lopsilceci said:
Then I'm afraid it will be impossible to believe anything Aliona says publicly from now on, or at least, not to take it with a grain of salt. :confused2:

And this version makes the circumstances in which she left look even worse from her side.

Funny how you think decency=lying in public

I hope you've never packaged your words to not exactly reflect your inner thoughts in public. "That dress really looks bad on you, boss!"
Jesus christ, because if she went on about how she didn't like her programs, Daniil might've been upset with her for saying it publicly and people would've called her rude. So either way we'd have people like you reaching to criticize her. And I said "if she didn't actually like the programs", not that she actually did. Why are you reading so deep into the words of a 16 year old that tried to be polite during an interview? If your favorite skater had done the same, you would've said she was just trying to be polite. But because it's Kostornaia, it's "she's a two-faced liar" if she didn't like her programs. What a stretch and what an unnecessarily vicious way to put it.

Fluture · Aug 1, 2020

lopsilceci said:
Funny how you think decency=lying in public

No. People have the right to change their mind. They also have the right to not share every close feeling or doubt with the public. So, even if she felt something was wrong with the program, she was perfectly free not to voice it in an interview but handle it privately with the coaches instead. That‘s literally what decent people would do. And it‘s not lying. (also, total and brutal honesty isn‘t always the best. Plushenko called Aliona‘s programs “awful“ and I‘m sure that‘s 100% what he thinks of them. But I‘d say we‘ll all agree that he could have chosen a more diplomatic way of expressing that). Aliona‘s young but she has to learn. It‘s not easy finding the right balance of what to tell and what not to tell in an interview. And given that even quite a few adults seem to lack this sort of filter - as evidenced time and time again lol - I‘d say she should be forgiven.

So, nope, I see literally no reason to call Aliona a liar. A few weeks ago, she said what she said in that interview. Then she left the camp. Some thing or another will have lead her to change her mind. Maybe something happened. Maybe it didn‘t. Maybe she just had a change of heart. It happens! One day you think you’re happy, the next you realise you can‘t go on like this. But in the end, she made a decision and she has every right to that without people second guessing her every move and calling her a liar/traitor/whatever.

I just imagine if people were being judged for changing their job as much as these girls are being judged for changing coaches. Just imagine someone‘s former boss going off on social media, telling everybody what their former employee said about their colleagues. Unimaginable, right? So, why is it okay for a coach to do that to a 16 year old girl?

This whole thing is not about “loyalty“, it‘s about realising what you want and need at a time and going for it. Aliona Kostornaya comes first to Aliona Kostornaya. This is her life. She has the right to make decisions that she thinks will lead to her happiness. And if someone publicly calls her disloyal and a liar, it says more about them than it will ever say about her.

plushyfan · Aug 1, 2020

EdRoz said:
When you talk about Rosanov don't forget that he's not an “misunderstood genius “, he was number 3 on the team
and worked according to the plan and instructions from Tutberidze

No. Rozanov was the tech coach and he received little spotlight for that as you said he was the 3rd but not in the working. That was the reason why he left the team. The pupils loved and admired him.

Amei · Aug 1, 2020

Mathman said:
I think you are making too much of this. Obviously no polite young person is going to say to an interviewer, "My choreographer sucks." Danill choreographed many good programs for many talented skaters. It would be quite bizarre for any of the students at the Sambo club to publicly criticize the choreographer or the coaching team.

As far as has been reported -- isn't this right? -- even now Aliona has not said anything bad about Eteri or any of the other coaches.

She wanted to move on. She moved on.

Will the move work out to her advantage or disadvantage? Well, either way, it is not a question that WE need to yell and scream about, or self-righteously to pass moral judgement over.

I vaguely remember that Lipnitskaia pushed back on a program to Eteri and Averbukh because she hated the music, the program eventually went to Medvedeva, and all of a sudden Averbukh started criticizing her in the press.

plushyfan · Aug 1, 2020

nussnacker said:
No, Plushenko actually said that himself

I will send that part of his biography in private... I hope I can find Mishin's word from that time....Otherwise Rudolf Zagainov wrote a book and he said he used Yagudin's hate to beat Plush. Zagainov's wife became suicid there was a criminal investigation.

Fried · Aug 1, 2020

EdRoz said:
When you talk about Rosanov don't forget that he's not an “misunderstood genius “, he was number 3 on the team
and worked according to the plan and instructions from Tutberidze

It is clear that Eteri is number 1, Hot Sergei is number 3. Which of the other two is now number 2 and number 4?

eliana · Aug 1, 2020

plushyfan said:
No. That was Mishin's opinion. He had debate with Tarasova they were in very bad relationship for years because of that. Evgeny was just a 19. y.o. guy he talked about his feelings for Mishin. That was an interesting story. Zhenya( Plush) was ill after the competition he lost 5 kg and the doctors didn't find any reason. In his biography he talked about it and he said he doesn't believe it.

I can't believe it's been talked about since 2002. I can't believe there are people on the forum who can't accept that Plushy was Mishin's favorite in those years. It's hated right now for that period.

Yes, I think Evgheni lost the Olympics suspiciously, even if he doesn't admit it. Evgheni Viktorovici was the favorite of that Olympics and normally had to be the winner

lopsilceci · Aug 1, 2020

dhjh811 said:
I hope you've never packaged your words to not exactly reflect your inner thoughts in public. "That dress really looks bad on you, boss!"
Jesus christ, because if she went on about how she didn't like her programs, Daniil might've been upset with her for saying it publicly and people would've called her rude. So either way we'd have people like you reaching to criticize her. And I said "if she didn't actually like the programs", not that she actually did. Why are you reading so deep into the words of a 16 year old that tried to be polite during an interview? If your favorite skater had done the same, you would've said she was just trying to be polite. But because it's Kostornaia, it's "she's a two-faced liar" if she didn't like her programs. What a stretch and what an unnecessarily vicious way to put it.

I never said I believe Aliona is a liar. I said I believe what she said in her interviews was true, at least at the moment she said those things, and everyone else said that no, she wasn't actually being honest (for whatever reason), so I guess you didn't understand me or care to actually read my posts.

ETA: Since lots of people are apparently misquoting me, I'll make an aclaration: I personally believe that Aliona Kostornaya is NOT a liar or a hypocrite and I will only believe her own words about what she likes or thinks or wants.

dunffvanstorn · Aug 1, 2020

Fluture said:
No. People have the right to change their mind. They also have the right to not share every close feeling or doubt with the public. So, even if she felt something was wrong with the program, she was perfectly free not to voice it in an interview but handle it privately with the coaches instead. That‘s literally what decent people would do. And it‘s not lying. (also, total and brutal honesty isn‘t always the best. Plushenko called Aliona‘s programs “awful“ and I‘m sure that‘s 100% what he thinks of them. But I‘d say we‘ll all agree that he could have chosen a more diplomatic way of expressing that). Aliona‘s young but she has to learn. It‘s not easy finding the right balance of what to tell and what not to tell in an interview. And given that even quite a few adults seem to lack this sort of filter - as evidenced time and time again lol - I‘d say she should be forgiven.

So, nope, I see literally no reason to call Aliona a liar. A few weeks ago, she said what she said in that interview. Then she left the camp. Some thing or another will have lead her to change her mind. Maybe something happened. Maybe it didn‘t. Maybe she just had a change of heart. It happens! One day you think you’re happy, the next you realise you can‘t go on like this. But in the end, she made a decision and she has every right to that without people second guessing her every move and calling her a liar/traitor/whatever.

I just imagine if people were being judged for changing their job as much as these girls are being judged for changing coaches. Just imagine someone‘s former boss going off on social media, telling everybody what their former employee said about their colleagues. Unimaginable, right? So, why is it okay for a coach to do that to a 16 year old girl?

This whole thing is not about “loyalty“, it‘s about realising what you want and need at a time and going for it. Aliona Kostornaya comes first to Aliona Kostornaya. This is her life. She has the right to make decisions that she thinks will lead to her happiness. And if someone publicly calls her disloyal and a liar, it says more about them than it will ever say about her.

Thank you.

EdRoz · Aug 1, 2020

Fried said:
It is clear that Eteri is number 1, Hot Sergei is number 3. Which of the other two is now number 2 and number 4?

If you start watching figure skating, you'll see the names of head coaches and choreographer on the screen at the beginning of each program.

dhjh811 · Aug 1, 2020

lopsilceci said:
I never said I believe Aliona is a liar. I said I believe what she said in her interviews was true, at least at the moment she said those things, and everyone else said that no, she wasn't actually being honest (for whatever reason), so I guess you didn't understand me or care to actually read my posts.

ETA: Since lots of people are apparently misquoting me, I'll make an aclaration: I personally believe that Aliona Kostornaya is NOT a liar or a hypocrite and I will only believe her own words about what she likes or thinks or wants.

My point is, you said that she would be a "two-faced liar" if she actually did not like her programs but gave an interview saying that she did. I am saying that you are being unnecessarily vicious for interpreting it like that had she actually not liked her programs. She has no obligation to speak what's on her mind to the public, especially if what she thinks would upset many people around her. I said this, so it seems like you couldn't be bothered to read what I wrote right :rolleye:

lopsilceci · Aug 1, 2020

Fluture said:
So, nope, I see literally no reason to call Aliona a liar.

I didn't

My quote was taken out of context when I said I believe Aliona told the truth and later changed her mind and others said she wasn't telling the truth in the first place, so I asked if they were suggesting that Aliona was a liar. That's all. Bye.

Fried · Aug 1, 2020

EdRoz said:
If you start watching figure skating, you'll see the names of head coaches and choreographer on the screen at the beginning of each program.

Above all, I have heard Eteri and Daniil's statement countless times that TT consists exclusively of universalists, each of whom can everything and do everything.

Fluture · Aug 1, 2020

lopsilceci said:
I didn't
My quote was taken out of context when I said I believe Aliona told the truth and later changed her mind and others said she wasn't telling the truth in the first place, so I asked if they were suggesting that Aliona was a liar. That's all. Bye.

Well, I am sorry if I have misunderstood but didn‘t you literally say that it would indeed make her a liar to not admit in a public interview if she found a fault with Daniil‘s choreography? Because that‘s how it came across.

But I see you‘re not interested in a discussion whatsoever, so “bye“ indeed, I guess? :shrug:

TallyT · Aug 1, 2020

lopsilceci said:
Are you suggesting that Aliona is a two-faced liar?

No, she's saying Aliona has been trained how to walk the pr walk and talk the pr talk, like most of the skaters (not all, true) are.

Both of them, and Plushy, are all human beings, for all they sometimes act soap opera-ish, and they are all complicated and multifaceted, good and bad, We tend to forget that (hey, we forget that we've forgotten it!) and only see the facets that are public/match our own ideas. I have no difficulty with Tutberidze having a warmer side - I'm a Voronov fan and my first introduction to her was her endearingly awkward but equally endearingly genuine appearances at his side in the KnC (and if their relationship ended in spats and tears don't tell me I don't want to know). That doesn't make her online behaviour when a skater she hasn't finished with yet is finished with her any more or less human, and hurt, and understandable... and crass. Plushy's gloating and baiting isn't really any better.

It doesn't mean Kostornaia is either a liar or a hypocrite (any of you employed, do you go online to badmouth your employer and their ideas/plans?) if she played up the positives in interviews and quietly ignored any negatives.

EdRoz · Aug 1, 2020

Fried said:
Above all, I have heard Eteri and Daniil's statement countless times that TT consists exclusively of universalists, each of whom can everything and do everything.

It’s just a nice words..
quest for you - finding a difference between two choreographers of Eteri team -Daniil and Alex Zheleznyakov

Tolstoj · Aug 1, 2020

I wonder if Eteri is now willing to give An Xiangyi a second chance.

lopsilceci · Aug 1, 2020

dhjh811 said:
My point is, you said that she would be a "two-faced liar" if she actually did not like her programs but gave an interview saying that she did. I am saying that you are being unnecessarily vicious for interpreting it like that had she actually not liked her programs. She has no obligation to speak what's on her mind to the public, especially if what she thinks would upset many people around her. I said this, so it seems like you couldn't be bothered to read what I wrote right

Maybe I exaggerated in my choice of words. I apologize about that.

However, to me, lying means not telling the truth, no matter the circumstances or reasons. Some lies are worse than others and we all do it for different reasons. I don't believe Aliona lied.

I do hope she shares with us a little about her side of the situation, then we won't be speculating so much.

Alena Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

dunffvanstorn

nussnacker

one and only

dhjh811

Fluture

plushyfan

Amei

plushyfan

Fried

eliana

lopsilceci

dunffvanstorn

EdRoz

dhjh811

lopsilceci

Fried

Fluture

TallyT

EdRoz

Tolstoj

lopsilceci

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