6.0 tarnished at U.S. Nationals | Page 2 | Golden Skate

6.0 tarnished at U.S. Nationals

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
wvgal57 said:
That's why Brad's post makes excellent sense. The candy fest at least years Worlds and this years US Nationals was riduculous. 6.0 for perfect program is great but for flawed programs its wrong.
If one really believes that the 6.0 means perfection then so be it. I don't! I believe it is a comparison score. If some dumb judge gives a skater a 5.9 before the last skater skates, and he is honest, then he has no alternative but to give the next skaters 6.0 and hopefully there is only one left.

And if one believes there was a candfest. So what? I don't. In the last US Nationals' Ladies: The right skater won. Over and out. Continue to worry about 6.0s if it means that much to anyone else. But save some of this nitpicking for the summer months. :sheesh:

Joe
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
At Worlds 2004 and at US Nationals 2005, too many 6.0s were given out because the judges overmarked the skaters just below the top tier.

At Worlds, it became obvious in the FSs/FD that presentation 5.7s and 5.8s given out in the next-to-last group would push presentation scores in the final group to 5.9s and 6.0s.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It's true that on a normal day only 2 programs that I was able to see on tv deserve a 6.0 but really I don't care that they gave them out like candy. This is done with and I'm just looking forward to Worlds.
 

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
If I recall correctly, there were 6.0s awarded like candy at last year's Worlds, which was the last time they would be used there....again, diminishing the "meaning" of the mark, since they were questionably deserved as well. I doubt that the U.S. Nationals this year caused more disgrace than that.

:rofl: At Johnny Weir saying he didn't deserve any 6.0s! Gotta love that guy and his honesty!

Kasey
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
After reading all the anti-comments of recent 6.0 competitions and failure to read that the entire system is a comparison score then I am glad the system is over with. Cannot understand why it was so important to fans to worry about 6.0s.

Joe
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The problem is PCS marks in the 9s will become the new 6.0s. You can count on it. We already saw 9s in the GPF for Plushy and the Canadian skaters.
 

ditzysk8r

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Mathman said:
But in the case of Michelle, to me, just let her stand out there for four minutes -- 6.0!

MM
Exactly, she doesn't even have to skate, really! Sure, let's go do a butt spin, see how many 6's they give me! :cool:
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
mzheng said:
I don't think a lot fans took 6.0 seriously since last year worlds. I hardly take any 6.0 earned in Nationals, any Nationals in any country too seriously. They are all a 'setup' scores for the skaters the federation send to the big worlds.

exactly


I was there, and I only really thought the 6.0s would have been awarded to Tanith and Ben, but in other circumstances MAYBE one or two, not the full string

but their energy alone was soooooooo powerful that who knows...

anyway, who gives a whoop. It was a way to get the crowd jumping, and it was one last time around for the 6.0 :(
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Kasey said:
If I recall correctly, there were 6.0s awarded like candy at last year's Worlds, which was the last time they would be used there....again, diminishing the "meaning" of the mark, since they were questionably deserved as well. I doubt that the U.S. Nationals this year caused more disgrace than that.

:rofl: At Johnny Weir saying he didn't deserve any 6.0s! Gotta love that guy and his honesty!

Kasey

At the 1998 Olympics when Kazakova-Dmitriev received a 6.0 (just one) for presentation, Dmitriev disagreed with the 6.0 during the interview. He said 5.9 was OK but 6.0 was too much for that performance..... and they were not handing out 6.0's like free candy those days.

Vash
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Joesitz said:
After reading all the anti-comments of recent 6.0 competitions and failure to read that the entire system is a comparison score then I am glad the system is over with. Cannot understand why it was so important to fans to worry about 6.0s.

Joe

I disagree that it was a failure to read the entire system. I do understand that the marks are relative and that after 5.9 there is only one way to go for a better performance- 6.0. It does not have to be perfect performance. Still the problem is what do you do if there are two or more great performances? There is no 6.1 or 6.2, so the judges really have to undermark the earlier skaters to avoid getting into that situation. Unfortunately in these specific competitions (USN 2005 and 2004 worlds) the judges seemed to have made up their minds to give 6.0's to whoever skated the best in their opinions, so they were liberal in giving marks in general. The other point is it is not always necessary to give a 6.0. Why give a 6.0 if a 5.9 would have given the placement to that skater? I don't see a problem with the 6.0 system per se, it is the way the judges midhandled it since last year. OTOH had they not known that the system would be replaced very soon, they might have been more careful with it.

Vash
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
wvgal57 said:
That's why Brad's post makes excellent sense. The candy fest at least years Worlds and this years US Nationals was riduculous.

6.0 for perfect program is great but for flawed programs its wrong.

As ridiculous as the candy fest and 6.0 galore the some Russian nationals lady champion I mean IS received at Russian naionals :rofl:

Actually some of the most tarnished 6.0 were given to Cohen last year at nationals, who botched some elements of her program, and that was given to her before Michelle skated
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
gezando said:
As ridiculous as the candy fest and 6.0 galore from some Russian nationals lady champion received :rofl:

Actually some of the most tarnished 6.0 were given to Cohen last year at nationals, who botched some elements of her program, and that was given to her before Michelle skated

Cohen got one 6.0. How? I don't know. She CLEARLY didn't deserve anything even CLOSE to that. She fell and she was flat (but when isn't she?). Wow, I hate the nutcracker program but I think I actually prefer her 2005 performance to her 2004 one. Mainly because I felt she didn't hold back after her mistakes this time.
 

Kurt's Girl

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
That's a real shame, especially for the skaters. There's very few worse feelings in the world than being handed something you don't feel you deserve. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it tarnishes the legacy of the 6.0 in general--all the deserving programs of the past who earned and deserved them are just as wonderful as they were before the US Nationals.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, I remember US Nationals 2004 very well. Cohen had skated and had two falls, with Kwan and Kirk next to skate, in that order.

Cohen's marks:
5.7 5.7 5.8 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.8 5.7 5.7
6.0 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8

Kwan was up next and skated up a storm, so the judges had to top Sasha's marks:
5.9 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.8
6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 5.9 6.0 5.9 6.0

What I found interesting was that judge #7 gave Kwan and Cohen the same technical mark, when Sasha had fallen on two jumps.
 

ditzysk8r

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
chuckm said:
Yes, I remember US Nationals 2004 very well. Cohen had skated and had two falls, with Kwan and Kirk next to skate, in that order.

Cohen's marks:
5.7 5.7 5.8 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.8 5.7 5.7
6.0 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8

Kwan was up next and skated up a storm, so the judges had to top Sasha's marks:
5.9 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.8
6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 5.9 6.0 5.9 6.0

What I found interesting was that judge #7 gave Kwan and Cohen the same technical mark, when Sasha had fallen on two jumps.
They landed the same number of triples! Kwan didn't even try a loop and doubled a lutz!
 

michaelfsfan

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
ditzysk8r said:
They landed the same number of triples! Kwan didn't even try a loop and doubled a lutz!

Umm I think you got 2004 Nationals and 2005 Nationals confused. I believe chuckm was referring to the former, where Michelle skated a clean program to "Tosca" and she landed 6 triples (3L, 3Z/2T, 3F, 2A, 3S, 3T, 3Z).
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
ditzysk8r said:
Exactly, she doesn't even have to skate, really! Sure, let's go do a butt spin, see how many 6's they give me! :cool:

Actually ,it was Cohen who splat and still received 6.0 in 2004 nationals, and talk about that BC spin, almost a butt spin
 

gezando

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
ditzysk8r said:
I completely agree with Brad! MK didn't deserve a single one of those 6.0's - rather, she deserved a deduction for finishing after her music! Johnny and B/A skated well, and maybe deserved one or two apiece, but not a string of them across the board. I'm looking forward to next year when the 6.0 is history and skaters get points only when they deserve them! :p

No deduction b/c she did not gone over 10 sec
 
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