Terri Shivo

As a parent, it would be very difficult to let your child go, even though logic and medical science says its over..........42

Megsk8z-
I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your mother. Your situation shows how important it is that there be something in writting.

Terri is not brain dead, she has intact brain stem function. I am not sure medical science said it is over. People who want her to die argue on quality of life issue. People who want her to live argue starving her to death is death, irreversible.

Either the federal govt plays God or the local govt plays God. Either her parents play God or her husband play God. What I don't understand is why can't her husband just divorce her and let her parents take care of her.

I expect the judge to walk a slow code, but he did not interesting.

I'm on the fence with this one too. I have a problem with congress butting in, but starving a person to death is cruel and inhumane. She is in a vegetative state, but, from what I've heard, her "husband" has done little to improve her quality of life in the past few years. Doctors are at the ready to work with her, but her husband won't allow it.

This is very enlightening, on several fronts:
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0322-32.htm

Hi Still Blue..

StillBlueLake said:

I'm married and if I was incapacitated for over a decade, I'd sure want my husband to move on and find happiness with someone else.

I think it's pretty sick the way the right wingers portray Michael as some sort of monster. I'm sure he misses her too.



I'm sorry but you simply have the science wrong. The link above talks about how this sort of death in painless for a patient in a PVS. Terri is NOT conscious. She has sleep/wake patterns, but she is not conscious in terms of being able to think, feel or interact with the environment. The cerebral cortex, which is the part of the brain that controls feelings, memory etc, has been replaced in Terri by spinal fluid. She is still "alive" because she has a brain stem, which controls primitive functions.

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First, thank you for clarifying (and shame on me for firing off my fingers before reading the link!!) that Terri would be unlikely to feel the pains of starvation for the scientific reasons you reference. Since I've already (legally, and in writing) decided that if I ever end up in those circumstances, the feeding tube will be pulled, that gives me comfort!! I still think an option for a lethal injection would be more humane - IF the person choosing that option has clearly made that choice - not the family, not the husband, and certainly not the courts or the government.

DG

ALL OF US have the right to make our OWN choice!!

Ladskater said:

It comes down to quality of life. How can someone who is brain dead, have anything even close to quality? Really she is gone already. Her husband, wants to do the humane thing and let her rest in peace. He should be given the right to make the decision.

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As much as I would want my husband, who knows me far better than my immediate family, to make this choice for me if I couldn't, I have AMPLE OPPORTUNITY to make this choice for myself. All of us do.

OK, broken record again. It's one thing to have a variety of opinions about someone else's choice. But PLEASE RECOGNIZE that each of us does have our OWN choice. So if you don't want your partner, siblings, parents, congressmen, judges, etc. to make your choice for you, then make your choice for yourself. There is a completely legal way to do that. At 26 years old, Terri wasn't even thinking about this outcome, I'm sure. But we can all take a lesson, and all make a similar situation MUCH easier on our own spouses and families than this tragic example has been.

Broken, broken, broken, broken record,

DG

The hardest decision of my life was to not let the doctors put a feeding tube or a tracheostomy in my father after he had his stroke. He was in a coma, but I knew this was not how he would have wanted to be kept alive. I fear a decision that I had to make in private with my own conscience and know my father's wishes, would make me a criminal given what my government has done in this case. How does this family tragedy warrent a post midnight signing of a law by the President? She isn't a relative! Hasn't anyone taught these people basic civics and the separation of the branches of government? And hasn't any of these people in power had to make this type of decision? or is it just a knee jerk keep'em alive even though their brain (and soul if you are a believer) have already gone on, it's just that the heart keeps pumping and hasn't caught up yet.

Dying by Starvation

When my grandmother died a few years ago one of the things that happened was that she did not have the energy to eat (due to heart damage). Her doctor assured us that starvation was probably the most pleasant way to die. After a few days without food you get a feeling of euphoria.

Meg.........so sorry to hear about your mom. My heart goes out to you. My dad died in his sleep about 8 years ago. He wasn't sick and there wasn't any trauma. He had sleep apnea and his heart wasn't strong enough to keep himself going. We should all be so lucky to go that way when the time comes.......42

Link to the Guardian Ad Litem's Report to Gov. Jeb Bush

Here's a link to the pdf file containing the Guardian Ad Litem's report to Gov. Jeb Bush on Terri Schiavo. Michael Schiavo comes out very well in this report. It's why no one in FL removed him as Terri's guardian.

Thank you, everyone for you condolences.
My main point was that my mother had put her requests in writing and done it in such a way that her wishes could not be ignored. And I already have advanced directives and a healthcare power of attorney written as well, because nobody knows when something will happen.
Personally, I would prefer to die (and starvation isn't all that unpleasant after the first couple of days, the euphoria does kick in) in my own way.
I feel sick for the whole family. What a terrible thing to happen to anyone and for it to be so public, well, it's sad.

I'm so sorry for your loss...

megsk8z said:

This is a really close topic to me right now because last week my mother went in for an operation on her carotid artery and due to complications she had several strokes and wound up in pretty much the same state Terry is in. Thank goodness I had the healthcare power of attorney and her requests in writing. After the hospital did a brain scan that showed there was "something" going on in her brain but not enough to make her life a "real" life in her eyes, I had them take the ventilator and the respirator off and give her something for pain. She died within a minute or two and although it was incredibly hard on me, I know it was what my mother would want. I miss her awfully, horribly, terribly and dreadfully, but I know it was what she wanted.

And not that this has anything to do with the Terry Schiavo case, but the night my mother died we were driving around and there was a snowy owl perched on a telephone pole. She looked at me and flew off and we don't get too many snowy owls around here. THanks for letting me weigh in with my .02.

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I'm glad you and your family had the comfort of knowing exactly what your Mom's wishes were, and that you've also addressed this for yourself. However none of that changes the pain of losing your mother. My thoughts are with you.

DG

Well, let me just say this. Terri Schiavo has never been terminally ill. She has never been at death's door. No, she doesn't have the quality of life we have, but she's still a living, breathing human being.

Next, her brain is not replaced by spinal fluid. That's Michael's lawyer talking. There were references on all the news channels that the scans showed scarring and damage to her brain, not fluid. That's very different. And across the neurological board, doctors are disagreeing all over the place on whether she would, or would not, recover. But what is recovery for a person with brain injury?

This whole thing hits too close to home for me. Way to close. I have a daughter that suffered a brain injury 3 years ago. But for the grace of God, this could be my child.

And actually, Schiavo stopped all therapy on his wife in 1993. That's when he and the parents had their falling out. He isn't such a bad guy. He tried. But he should have divorced her once he started up with his girlfriend. That's what makes him look so bad in so many people's eyes.

There are so many advancements with therapy since 1993 that no one really knows what could or could not be done for Terri at this point. I feel it's too late and the parents should let her go. As much as that pains me to say because I've been involved with this for 3 years, I think it's time to let her go. It's more cruel to keep taking the tube out and putting it back in.

You know what happens? The doctors tell you your child isn't breathing on their own. They may never wake up. They may never talk, walk or have a life again. And you have to stand there and listen to that crap and make decisions. But they tell you to take a wait and see attitude. Then they remove the respirator and bingo, your child is breathing on her own. So there's hope. Then the rehab doctors gives her Amantadine to stimulate her out of her coma. It takes time. But they tell you she may never come out. She may be a "vegetable". For goodness sakes, this is your child and they call her a "vegetable"? Whatever.

But your daughter does come out of it after 4 weeks. And yes, her life will never be the same but her recovery is nothing short of miraculous even to the doctors and therapists because her brain injury was so severe. And now you think, but for the grace of God, this could be what could have happened to her.

I guess I should have stayed out of all of this across the boards but so many people are under the misconception that Terri Schiavo is brain dead and she isn't. That she's got some terminal illness or was at death's door for 15 years. She wasn't. It isn't easy. This won't be easy for any of them and I show my support as much as I can hoping to ease some of the pain the parents must be feeling. But ya gotta walk in those shoes to understand brain injury.

Right now my daughter is walking, talking, laughing, becoming independent by getting daily therapy at a wonderful place that deals with nothing but brain and spinal cord injury patients. There's a young woman in her house that is like Terri, but she's shown improvement. She was diagnosed PVS, but that was wrong apparently.

I know they need to let her go. I understand and recognize that. And I despise the government for getting involved in a family dispute. But I also wonder at a hospice that took a non-terminal patient. At a husband who stopped all therapy. And at a God who would allow this to continue (sorry if that offends anyone). It just has hit me too close to the heart.

Ok, I'm finished. Sorry I took up anyone's time.

IMHO, Michael Schiavo would be in a much stronger position vis-a-vis the media if he had a notarized paper, signed by Terri, proving what she wanted done, instead of arguing about it fifteen years after the accident. The most important lessons for the publis are: (1) If you got something like a durable power of attorney for health care or a living will years ago, then update. (2) If you haven't gotten one, do so!

By the way, I'm a nurse...but this is a very complex situation. No, she isn't technically brain dead, but her Cerebral Cortex is. The Cerebral Cortex can not regenerate, and so rehabilitation to any conscious function is really impossible. In a way, I feel it is really a kindness to let her go to God, and very selfish to keep her here as she is. And yet as a Mom, I think I can understand her parents' desire to hold on desperately to her in any shape or form. I was surprised to learn that Bush signed legislation as Governor of Texas allowing Hospitals to shut off life support of patients who had no ability to pay, but whose families wanted life support to continue. Can we say...hypocrite?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael received million dollars malpractice settlement, and the money was supposed to help Terri rehab, and he put her in a hospice. He should have divorce her long time ago.

She suffered an anoxic event and the cerebral cortex was damaged, since brain cells can not regenerate, the ventricles enlarged and filled out the space, so technically Michael's lawyer was kind of correct. But she is not brain dead, because she has intact brain stem function, and brain stem controls essential functions for life e.g. breathing etc. She breathes on her own. When is the time to let her go? Everyone goes eventually, but why does it have to be now? Are the parents willing to take care of her and pay the bills? If they are what is the big deal for feeding her again. Most likely Michael will not cough up the money that he received. Just curious, if he divorce her, does it mean that he will have to give her half of the money?

If we look at a hypothetical situation e.g. if someone has intact cerebral cortex, but has some brain stem damage, and require a respirator everywhere s/he goes at all times, is this person worth more in terms of saving?

ranjake said:

By the way, I'm a nurse...but this is a very complex situation. No, she isn't technically brain dead, but her Cerebral Cortex is. The Cerebral Cortex can not regenerate, and so rehabilitation to any conscious function is really impossible. In a way, I feel it is really a kindness to let her go to God, and very selfish to keep her here as she is. And yet as a Mom, I think I can understand her parents' desire to hold on desperately to her in any shape or form. I was surprised to learn that Bush signed legislation as Governor of Texas allowing Hospitals to shut off life support of patients who had no ability to pay, but whose families wanted life support to continue. Can we say...hypocrite?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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And yet, everything about the brain isn't known. The brain has the amazing capability of creating new pathways for functions that have been destroyed. It isn't about regeneration. And you don't know that rehabilitation won't help or will help. I'm not saying it would myself, but it's worth a try. Worth anything even now. With the new advances in therapy and medicine, no one really knows. Why not give it a try for say, a year? If there's no response, no noticeable difference, then maybe the parents can see there's no longer any hope.

Oh who am I kidding? People look at her and think "She's just a vegetable." They don't see a person. They don't see a living, breathing human being. Maybe we should pull the plug on all the paraplegics that require respirators to live. Oh, but they have their brain functioning so that's different. Well, they're on life support. Without that trach and that respirator, they'd die.

Ok, I'll get off my little soap box because I think I squashed it.

Oh, and that stuff Bush did in Texas-that just reeks to high heaven.

Realistic......I don't know what to say. Your post made a huge impact on me as I was reading it. You and your family are truly amazing...........42

Her husband has never allowed her to have therapy of any kind, at any time. Interesting that before the accident, Terri told her parents she was going to divorce him (yes, the girlfriend was in the picture even then).

Her husband wants the settlement money that funds her care, and that's why he hasn't divorced her and married his live-in girlfriend with whom he has two children. The husband's motives for wanting Terri dead are not one bit altruisitic. He wants that money!

Several of the specialists who have examined Terri have said that she is NOT in a persistent vegetative state. Of course, those aren't the doctors the husband has used to support his case.

She is going to die of thirst and starvation, and who is to say that she isn't feeling the pain and agony, or that she doesn't understand what is happening? The courts will have succeeded in murdering Terri, because that is the end result of their decisions.