Ladies, Please Leave the Quad to the Men | Golden Skate

Ladies, Please Leave the Quad to the Men

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
I hope the ladies don't get Quad fever again. All they will end up doing is possibly injuring themselves and the majority won't be able to achieve it anyway. Leave the Quad jump to the men. We already have a couple of ladies landing a triple axle. Frankly, speaking, that is enough. Ladies, please concentrate on what you do best - spins, spirals and footwork. The quad is not necessary.
 

Kateri

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I can't see this being a problem, really. Seeing as the men don't even need quads so much anymore, or even a triple axel, at times.

Anyway, even Miki's stopped trying the quad these days - who exactly are you worried about?

k.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think that is a decision of the skater. However, it is interesting to note that Sasha Cohen did not need a 3x3 to earn a silver medal nor to Jeffrey Buttle need a quad to earn his silver medal.

Joe
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Joesitz said:
I think that is a decision of the skater. However, it is interesting to note that Sasha Cohen did not need a 3x3 to earn a silver medal nor to Jeffrey Buttle need a quad to earn his silver medal.

Joe
But I think the key word is "silver."

MM
 

ChiSk8Fan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Why so absolute?

I believe that if there is a talented woman who has a powerful, clean, mastered quad, she should include it in her program.

Why leave it to the men if the woman has the talent and ability?
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
ChiSk8Fan said:
I believe that if there is a talented woman who has a powerful, clean, mastered quad, she should include it in her program.

Why leave it to the men if the woman has the talent and ability?


The word Injury comes to mind. How many men have we seen side lined as a result of the quad? Sure there probably is a lady out there who may have the quad soon, but really is it worth it?
 

ks777

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Ladskater said:
The word Injury comes to mind. How many men have we seen side lined as a result of the quad? Sure there probably is a lady out there who may have the quad soon, but really is it worth it?


of course it is worth it.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
tdnuva said:
I maybe (!) could accept that if you would be talking about yourself......
To me, that's the problem in a nutshell. A 30 year old football player decides to take steroids and bulk up to 350 pounds, thus compromising both the length and the quality of his life later on, but landing a $20 million dollar contract. OK, that's his choice. Who am I to say it is the wrong one?

But these skaters are for the most part teenagers or younger who lack the perspective of life experience, and whose decisions are guided by parents, coaches and other adults.

To me, there is an element in all this of the old Roman gladiators. Go out there and kill yourself for my entertainment; here's a laurel wreath for your effort. Except these are children. Someone should be looking out for them.

JMO.

Mathman
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
I believe it is a decision for the skater. If she wants to challenge herself- just like Midori Ito did when she performed triple axels- why should she be discouraged. If the quads are to be discouraged for the ladies, that should apply to the men also. The ladies were traditionally expected to be pretty ballerinas on ice, while the men did the athletic moves. Now we see more ladies doing difficult jumps and more men using flexibility and artistry, and that is OK. Society has changed. If a lady gets injured while practising a quad, it is her choice and there should not be a rule about it.

That said- going tangential- the backflip is illegal in competitions. Is this due to the possibility of injury or is it because it is rarely landed on one foot (AFAIK only Surya has landed it on one foot).

I do believe athletes want to challenge themselves in different ways. Those who are more athletically inclined/gifted will want to try the difficult jumps and should not be discouraged, particularly based on their gender.

Vash
 

Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
Mathman said:
But these skaters are for the most part teenagers or younger who lack the perspective of life experience, and whose decisions are guided by parents, coaches and other adults.

To me, there is an element in all this of the old Roman gladiators. Go out there and kill yourself for my entertainment; here's a laurel wreath for your effort. Except these are children. Someone should be looking out for them.

JMO.

Mathman


I think that the quad is not the cause of injuries. I mean, an athlete of this level is very likely doing like 40 or 50 triple jumps a day, I don't think one extra rotation causes a problem. The real problem IMO is when they have a not-appropiate trainning regime, where they abuse their body with an overload of training. That's what the coaches and skaters have to work on, a proper training regime, IMO
 

Panther2000

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
ChiSk8Fan said:
I believe that if there is a talented woman who has a powerful, clean, mastered quad, she should include it in her program.

Why leave it to the men if the woman has the talent and ability?


Yeah, & take a look at the men who can do quads until he cows come home in their sleep. 1 word INJURIES. Alexei early retirement do to hip injuries, plushkeno had to withdraw due to injuries( the many that he has had in the past 3 years) Timmie the Quad king, With all his injuries he has had over the past 2 years. Now, he is all over the place with everything.

The females who can land quads that is very well & good. But, maybe working on all that other stuff might be better. Points is the name of the game & all that little stuff in between.
 

Panther2000

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Ladskater said:
The word Injury comes to mind. How many men have we seen side lined as a result of the quad? Sure there probably is a lady out there who may have the quad soon, but really is it worth it?


I didn't even get to read you post but, I agree. See how quickly, people forgot about Tara L. She & her team were so intent of winning & beating team mates. That they pretty much ruined what could have been a great skating career. She will go into the hall a fame but, nothing more than a footnote.

Yeah, she won Nationals, worlds,& the olympics. But, did not stick around to defend or reinforce her titles. & she couldn't even hand the proffesional tours to much. Her injuires were so bad that she even had to retire from that.
 

Panther2000

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Hikaru said:
I think that the quad is not the cause of injuries. I mean, an athlete of this level is very likely doing like 40 or 50 triple jumps a day, I don't think one extra rotation causes a problem. The real problem IMO is when they have a not-appropiate trainning regime, where they abuse their body with an overload of training. That's what the coaches and skaters have to work on, a proper training regime, IMO



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

See the list above. It has been well documented that the years training does take it's toll. Jaring the & jamming the bones is not good, muscles, back, etc. In all my years of watching skating. I have not seen so many injuries like in the past 2.5 years. With so many more jumps & jump combos being done in a program nowadays. It doesn't help
 

Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
Panther2000 said:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

See the list above. It has been well documented that the years training does take it's toll. Jaring the & jamming the bones is not good, muscles, back, etc. In all my years of watching skating. I have not seen so many injuries like in the past 2.5 years. With so many more jumps & jump combos being done in a program nowadays. It doesn't help
I do not understand what part of my post is so funny to you. But I think a person that trains and takes care of their body, shouldn't have more injuries whether they are doing triples or quads. Of course that all the jumping causes stress in the body, same for people doing any other sports that put stress in their bodies, but I just think that a person doing many triples isn't less injured than a person doing also quads.
 

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Smarter training

What about training smarter? For example, how often to skaters use a harness? Does learning a job on a harness interfere with the skater's ability to do the jump successfully without the harness?

Also, is it landing the jump successfully, over and over, that causes the injury? Or is it the umpteen falls required before getting consistency on the landings that cause the injuries?

Of the skaters doing quads, add Honda to the list of injured.

But, of the skaters who did quads, wouldn't Browning and Sabochek be among skaters who did quads during their eligible careers and continued on afterwards without career ending injuries? What is the difference between their skating lives (when they did quads) and say Yagudin's, Plushenko's and others? Fewer competitions? Or what?

Linny
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm not sure about Jumpin' Joe, but I have read about Kurt that the secret to his success is that he has preternaturally strong ankles. I don't know whether this is just a gift of anatomy or whether he had a specific training regime to build them up.

Anyway, because his ankles are so strong he can wear softer boots and still land his jumps. Most skaters must wear stiffer boots to control their landings. But the stiffer boots channel all the force up into the hips.

There was an interesting interview about this with George Spiteri (SP-teri boots). He says it is easy to reduce injuries just by making softer boots. But the skaters don't like them because they can't do quads in them.

Spiteri is not a fan of the hinged boot design, BTW. He says it does not solve the problem. Whether by hinge or simply by the use of softer leather, more flexibility in the ankle will reduce injuries but at the cost of reduced performance.

I think Michelle has strong ankles, too. This is why she can maintain such a secure deep edge, and also may have something to do with her longevity in the sport.

Mathman:)
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Quads are a cause of injury, no question about it. Stojko, Urmanov, Yagudin, Plushenko, Klimkin, Honda, Goebel --- just a short list. Lambiel was one of few skaters who landed quads at Worlds, and he has had TWO knee surgeries at the age of 19.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
I wonder..

How many of the serious, career ending injuries are related to training the big jumps in the first place, v. over-training on an existing injury rather than healing the injury first? I don't know for sure, but I suspect that's a big part of it. I have a feeling Plush will be a wreck before too much longer. While I hope I'm wrong about that, in his case will it be due to years of training the quads, or will it be from training / competing on top of injuries that he doesn't take care of?

Just more food for thought..

DG
 
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