Marshall's on TV

Any comments?

Dick and Peggy really got on Michelle's case for doing triple/triples in practice but not putting them in the performance. Dick was certainly on track when he said that she has to decide if she is really going to go for it next year or not.

I agree with Dick's summary of Jenny Kirk's performance. Very nice, but it needs to have more impact. I don't know exactly how to accomplish this. But as pretty as Jenny's performance was, I was drawn into Bebe's a lot more. I thought Bebe should have got fourth.

Can you believe how much Emily Hughes looks like Sarah at that age? I thoroughly enjoyed the performances of all of the youngsters.

Do you think Tim Goebel can ever get back anywhere near where he was three years ago?

I will be curious to see what the television ratings turn out to be. Especially compared with the Kristi Yamaguchi show that was on at the same time on NBC.

Mathman

Nice competition. Dick pretty much ragged on everyone tonight. His comments about Michelle and Sasha pretty much status quo....Michelle doesn't do the triple-triples and Sasha is inconsistent on her jumps........

I thought Beatrisa also should have gotten at least fourth. Her performance was much more mature than Kim and Emily, plus she skates with such speed. The other two gals are still very "juniorish" in their skating........aw well, there's next season.............42

Beatriza wuzrobbed. Only Emilie came near to her speed! and to do all those tricks Beatriza was way above the field.

Michelle and Sasha were their standard self as per 2002.

Jenny got a good one in. When will be the next?

Kimmie is becoming standard, before she reaches her peak.

Tim is looking somewhat better.

That's about all for this silly competition.

Joe

That was the first clean FS I've seen Jenny do since 2003 Nationals.

I find it puzzling that Dick can berate Kwan for not doing 3/3s but doesn't seem to think Sasha needs them. Yes, Kwan needs more difficulty, although I do not believe she HAS to have 3/3s. She does have to do at least two 3/2/2s and/or jump sequences, and she needs more transitions and more complex spins and spirals.

I was glad that Johnny at least attempted a quad (and it was close) and don't see why Dick was so down on him for (A) not landing the quad and (B) falling on the 3A. The rest of Johnny's performance was great, and Dick didn't have much positive to say about it.

Dick was even nasty about Matt Savoie, who he usually likes. It seemed as if he was expected all the skaters to be perfect, and was sour when they were not. I think he's on his way out with ABC.

I thought Emily Hughes looked just plain klutzy at times. It's something about the way she uses her arms. I have a rule of thumb that if I notice a skater's arm movements, they are too much. She does seem out of control, as if she were flinging herself around on the ice. Maybe it's because she is so tall, but she just doesn't look graceful, and her use of ballet music just pointed out her awkward qualities. She just doesn't look like a ballerina. I think she'd be better off with any other kind of music. I much preferred BeBe to Emily.

I wish that Dick had simply shut up during Michelle's program, as I could barely hear the music. He could have criticized her for not doing a 3/3 and/or discussed what she needs to do to win an OGM while they were waiting for results in the Kiss-and-Cry. I also noticed that he did not mention what Sasha should do to win the OGM.

Bebe was robbed. I think Jenny should be second, Cohen phoned in her program. I wish Dick talked more during Cohen's program to cover up the noise of her blades scratch scratch scratch :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Emily reminds me of Sarah, what a gorgeous double axel. I think her triple lutz is better

gezando said:

Bebe was robbed. I think Jenny should be second, Cohen phoned in her program. I wish Dick talked more during Cohen's program to cover up the noise of her blades scratch scratch scratch :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

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Two hour program with less than an hour of actual skating. Though in this case I didn't mind as much as the skating was tired. I had more fun washing the dishes. Liang is just not given the respect she deserves. She is way better than Emily and Kimmie. Good for Jenny. She skated with attack. More as though she believed in herself again. Michelle's had a good final 30 seconds and solid jumps but the program was empty. Sasha should have been fourth.

Kudos (or props, whatever they are) for Johnny for trying the quad. Didn't look that promising though. Evan is so much fun to watch. Where Tim's jumps went is almost a rhetorical question at this point.

I agree with DB's comments regarding Michelle. And what was with MK in that interview? The other's had a head start and she has to play catch up?!? Has SHE been in a vegatative state? Michelle I have always loved you but..........

I think "props" means "proper respect."

Quitest blades: Yuka Sato.

Attyfan, I so agree about Dick spoiling the effect of Michelle's program by talking through it. By the reviews of people who were there, the performance was electric, with the audience cheering every hop and twizzle. None of this came through at all in the broadcast.

It was like Dick lost interest halfway through her program and thought that we wanted to hear him drone on instead of watching the skating.

I think Dick's (and Peggy's, too) frustration about Michelle not doing a triple-triple is that she had been landing them consistently in practice, both at Worlds and then at Marshalls. I think they hoped to see one, which would have been big news and spiced up the telecast. It was when she hit a nice Salchow, but did not add a second jump, that they started saying, hey, where's the triple-triple? It was almost like Michelle had promised Dick that she was going to try it, then doublecrossed him, LOL.

What about Dick's remarks about Sasha's mistakes? All those double-footed landings, hands down, etc., are like the beauty marks on Cindy Crawford's face. They just set off her gorgeous positions all the more, LOL.

I liked Emily Hughes just fine. No, she is not a ballerina, any more than her sister was. Still, there should be room in the sport for many different styles of skating.

Except for some reason, the bouncy, vigorous gymnastic style of Bebe Liang goes totally unappreciated by the U.S. judges.

About Michelle's interview, I think she told the truth. She has been taking it easy for three years now, doing just the minimum needed to keep her hand in. I think this was her strategy all along. The alternative would have been what Todd Eldredge did -- take a couple of years off altogether, then try to come back. So now she is behind some of the others, but in a good position to put on a final blitz if she decides to go for it.

Mathman

clarification

I guess I should clarify why I said in another thread that I loved Dick's comments....It's NOT that I like the on and on commentary during a program, I don't. I would much prefer the commentary to be during kiss and cry or a combination of post-morten in kiss and cry with the minimal element identification during the program, period. What I liked, disregarding the program interruption, was the pre-olympic year subtext: everyone needs to WORK....and yes, as I admitted earlier, I guess I so want Michelle to win that I like Button's critique of her, hoping of course that it would be the magic wand that transforms this year into GOLD next year (ok, not very realistic, but you see where my heart was). And I kind of agree that if you are going to risk bodily injury practicing the triple triple, then WHY NOT put it in a competition or show to make sure you can do it with nerves too???? What's CoP got to do with having an empty program (I mean the idea that she is behind with CoP doesn't explain to me the lack of transitions....). Now, mathman was saying that taking it easy the last three years, just keeping a foot in so to speak, may have been her plan all along. It does make sense, but I guess we will only know how precisely her plan has been executed so far when we see her programs in the Fall (although, I suppose even then we may never really know if things went according to plan this season, or if there were unexpected set-backs, etc.).

Anyway, as for Button's comments on other skaters...again disregarding the blah blah blah DURING a program...I, again, generally liked it in the context of pre-olympic build up....I don't think he was mean to Savoi....he did she that Matt has been duing transitions and really interesting choreography way before it became necessary with CoP...and had other nice things to say about him, and he wasn't on that day, it wasn't a great performance; ...and then etc. with other skaters.

I...despite my irritation with Peggy's commentary...did like the comment that Meissner's coach may be telling her to do the 3 axel every competition to make it a normal part of the program; sounds smart to me as a strategy. And even though Liang was my favorite (I really think she is first rate talented), I agree with mathman that one of the great things about FS is the variety...so of course I appreciate all the different styles/approaches including Hughes, I just think that Liang's jump technique, mitf, edge work, and arm movements are of a superior quality at the moment, and just personally grab me (that beyond explanation aesthic valuation stuff). Anyway, I'm glad I had one more FS event to watch this year, and I really can't wait until the Fall!!!!

My only problem with Kim Meissner's triple axel is even when she lands it, it doesn't look right, under-rotated. So is including a less than perfect jump, one she could mess up and lose placement during a competition worth it? She looks like she's still growing, so her long legs may trip her up eventually.

What is the hype with Emily Hughes? Is it because she's Sarah's sister? I know she is also young, but I don't see the grace or beauty of skate that I see when Bebe skates.(and I believe they are the same age)?

The more I see Evan skate, the more I am reminded of Robin Cousins.....he is marvelous. I think it will be Johnny and Evan neck and neck next season for the U.S....................when is the next competition? 42

Mathman said:

Quitest blades: Yuka Sato.

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Don't know who is more quiet, Yuka, Karen Kwan, or Katia, but none of them are competing nowadays. Among the eligibles some skaters have quieter blades than others.

What about Dick's remarks about Sasha's mistakes? All those double-footed landings, hands down, etc., are like the beauty marks on Cindy Crawford's face. They just set off her gorgeous positions all the more, LOL.

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Dick's attempt to gush even he was faced with the reality of a phoned in SLOWer than syrup noisy :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: blades type of skate

I liked Emily Hughes just fine. No, she is not a ballerina, any more than her sister was. Still, there should be room in the sport for many different styles of skating.

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Emily has a much better split falling leaf compare to Sarah's climbing falling leaf. Lets see if she has Sarah's competitive toughness

Dick made some good comments. However, I do get annoyed about chatter during a competition. It would be nice if one of us could sit with the ABC team and have a re-run of Marschalls or some other competition and teach them when it is alright to make comments. Really, there is time for a commentator to say whoops she just rolled over to an inside edge making it a flutz. And say it in whisper tones! But we can do without comments of previous competitions during the actual skate.

Aside from this, I thought Dick was right on for Nitpicking Michelle. It's time for the NitPickers, and please go to The Edge and read my nitpicking on MK.

Joe

I know most of us can't get enough figure skating to watch all year, but does anybody else think that having a cheesefest a month after Worlds is just as dumb as having the Campbell's Soup Bowl too early in the season when the skaters and their programs aren't ready?

I realize these ISU deals were Speedy's answer to those evil professional skaters taking away viewers from HIS eligible skaters. But really, what could be more anticlimactic than having tired, often injured skaters compete in an event just so they won't PO the ISU? Have the cheesefests, fine, but schedule them at better times and stop pretending they're serious competitions. Why not elevate them to something above an exhibition but let's quit with the "now that you've trained all year to peak at Worlds and most of you have spent a month on tour, we want you to give it your all one more time just because Speedy says so."

I think it's dangerous to the skaters, Marshall's becomes a bigger zero every year (this with the "added" benefit of limiting it to US skaters--yeesh), and as much as I love skating, I'd rather watch my GPS, Worlds or SOI tapes again than watch the skater's go through this joke of a competition.

Actually, why not have the figure skaters do what would make Speedy really happy and race around a speed skating track and decide the winner that wa?.

Rgirl

I know most of us can't get enough figure skating to watch all year, but does anybody else think that having a cheesefest a month after Worlds is just as dumb as having the Campbell's Soup Bowl too early in the season when the skaters and their programs aren't ready?

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I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Campbell's is a great way for the skaters to get their programs out and get feedback and kinks ironed out before Grand Prix competition. However, having the spring pro-am is anticlimactic (sp?) after worlds, so yes, it is weird. However, it may be great for the fans to see their favorites perform one more time before the off-season.

I'm so in love with Beatrisa Liang's LP. The intensity of the first minute almost makes your heart tremble, and the second half is so dancey and passionate. It must be the combination of the music, the intensity of the choreography, the conviction Liang skates with and all the bold moves that did me in. It has been a while that a ladies program has made such a direct impact on me. Bebe has completely won me over this season. She always had interesting choreography, but i feel she really came into her own this year and is skating like a mature woman with grown up's emotions. Her skating is not one dimensional but multi-layered, as are the emotions she projects. I have the feeling that this is just a peak at what we are going to see from her in the coming years. There aren't that many ladies skater that I can say to "skate with passion", but IMO she does. She almost made me cry when I was watching her performance at Nationals. The raw quality and edginess in her skating are so refreshing. I honestly believe this long program is an Olympic winning program and a choreographical masterpiece. It was a shame that the it went downhill from the fall on the loop. I hope she really lets her hip rest and come back in full force for the Olympic season, and I'd be thrilled if she makes the team. There are things she needs to work on, mostly in terms of getting her moves more under control, and when she reaches that level she'll be hard to beat.
I love Meissner and her delicate style and honestly think all the "juniorish vibes" that we get from her are mostly due to her very stickish and undeveloped body. There's nothing juniorish about the way she strokes nor her carriage. That said, although I liked how she had some real choreography details in the program, I don't think it totally worked all the time. Some parts were good, but other moves just seemed downright awkward and she didn't seem confident enough doing them. I couldn't stop thinking about Yukina Ota's Daphnis et Chloe from last season while I was watching Kimmie. I would like to see her get another choreographer.

I liked it.

Rgirl said:

I know most of us can't get enough figure skating to watch all year, but does anybody else think that having a cheesefest a month after Worlds is just as dumb as having the Campbell's Soup Bowl too early in the season when the skaters and their programs aren't ready?

I realize these ISU deals were Speedy's answer to those evil professional skaters taking away viewers from HIS eligible skaters. But really, what could be more anticlimactic than having tired, often injured skaters compete in an event just so they won't PO the ISU? Have the cheesefests, fine, but schedule them at better times and stop pretending they're serious competitions.

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The Marshall's event was 9 days after Worlds, not a month. In fact, Lysacek had to rush back from his post-worlds tour in Russia to make the date.

Michelle did Bolero on the first two stops of COI just for practice for Marshall's.

The folks that were at a disadvantage are the skaters like Savoie who haven't skated since nationals.

Yes, the television coverage took away any possibility of thinking of the event as a serious competition by broadcasting it so late. Just as they did for the Grand Prix events and, for that matter, Worlds. In terms of figure skating as a spectator sport, it is not a competition when everyone already knows who is going to win.

I think the competitors treat it as a serious competition. For one thing, they are going for the biggest purse in the sport. OK, money isn't everything. But don't you think Bebe Liang or Shawn Sawyer would like to win $50,000 for their efforts? Michelle, Sasha and Plushenko treated these competitions more seriously than they did the Grand Prix.

The next good thing about the cheesefests is that they are over and done with in two hours, like a football or basketball game. You go, you watch the competition, you root for the home team -- to me, that's a nicely paced sporting event.

I don't think the cheesfests please Speedy at all. Unlike the Grand Prix, the prizes for the cheesefests are given by the naming sponsors and by the telvision networks and their broadcast sponsors, filtered through USFS. As far as I know, the ISU does not get anything for television rights. The format of the cheesefests, who is invited, will it be a national or international meet, etc. -- these things are decided in negotiations between the television networks, the sponsors and USFS, not the ISU.

The ISU "sanctions" the event only because they are afraid the skaters would bolt otherwise. Speedy would be pleased to see the cheesefests go out of business and instead to have the Grand Prix events televised on major networks.

Yes, there is a certain feeling to these shows of Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney saying, let's get all the guys together and put on a skating contest in the old barn. That's part of their charm.

I like it. There's the Campbell's kickoff show, ready or not, HERE COMES FIGURE SKATING! The Marshall's show at the end is our wistful goodbye to the season. The one in the middle is the warm-up for nationals. What's not to like?

MM

Yes, the television coverage took away any possibility of thinking of the event as a serious competition by broadcasting it so late. Just as they did for the Grand Prix events and, for that matter, Worlds. In terms of figure skating as a spectator sport, it is not a competition when everyone already knows who is going to win

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Worlds was televised on ESPN the SAME DAY (except for the ladies' short and any others I may have missed I guess). I suppose people would watch live coverage at 3am in the morning instead of in primetime? :scratch:

Same day delay is NOT bad at all. However, a one or two week delay, in the case of the pro-ams, is. It's fine if it is a show, but a competition needs to be shown as soon as possible to attract more viewers. Show them live even, if possible. If it's only two hours long...many basketball and football games go on longer than that.

Red Dog said:

Worlds was televised on ESPN the SAME DAY (except for the ladies' short and any others I may have missed I guess)

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IIRC the ESPN coverage didn't even start until Thursday. CBC had nightly two-hour coverage starting on Monday of whatever events had gone on that day. CBC put on the ladies LP live in the afternoon. ESPN aired in several hours later, at night.

Anyway, about whether the cheesefests are real competitions or not --

A football game is still a football game even though it's not the Super Bowl. The Family Circle Cup tennis tournament just completed yesterday is not Winbledon, but the players show up ready to compete (Justine Henin-Harden won, Venus Willimas was upset in a preliminary round), and the fans pay their money to see a good battle. Why pick on figure skating, calling these events cheesefest, etc.?

Mathman

Red Dog said:

Same day delay is NOT bad at all. However, a one or two week delay, in the case of the pro-ams, is. It's fine if it is a show, but a competition needs to be shown as soon as possible to attract more viewers. Show them live even, if possible. If it's only two hours long...many basketball and football games go on longer than that.

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I agree, I agree the Cheesfests can be shown at any time and they could go on ESPN for all I care. However, I think Campbells has some value in that it gives a glimpse of some skaters before Nationals. (not that MK and SC will be doing anything but their standard routines to different music.) It would be better if they showed more skaters than they do but, heavens, this is not for the skating fans..

Real ISU events should be seen LIVE and in total!! at any time of the day or night. That's what VCRs are for. The networks can show the edited version anytime they want.

Joe