Kwan at the Crossroads and Choices

Joesitz (RIP) · May 17, 2005

Interesting post, Kyla - As you are aware I started a thread before Worlds on why I did not think Kwan would win, and you have added fuel to this fire. What scares me most from your thread is that the new family business is taking her away from Arutunian. Not a good sign at all.

If she is not going to the Olys, then I think it would be only decent for her to bow out before the Nats and give another US skater a chance for the Olys even if just for experience.

Joe

Kwanford Wife · May 17, 2005

kyla2 said:
Michelle on the other hand has done nothing but win most of her competitve life and I wonder if it has gotten old and she doesn't "need" it any more.

Good point. I tend to forget that as an uber... "How could she have the nerve, the unmittigated gall NOT to go for gold in '06????!!!! How DARE she have a life that doesn't include being my favorite???!!! What About Me????" :laugh:

Seriously, though, whatever she does ~ I hope its out of being authentic & not because she got intimidated by a scoring system. As for her not placing higher than 3rd with a clean program ~ I disagree. Had she not tanked in the Qualifying round, she would've most likely won a silver with two clean, MK programs ~ CoP or 6.0. If for no other reason than its figure skating. Her reputation would've pulled up her scores.

Why wouldn't the Russian hottie move to her rink? I'm confused by this... unless it was a business decision to promote the rink during the summer? Will have to research...

Question: When does she typically commit to anything? Or is it always just assumed that she's competing & there is no official word?

I guess it comes down to this: Do you think she will compete ONLY if she knows she can win?

KW

Kwanford Wife · May 18, 2005

Found this article on another site... Never sure how this works, but here's ago...

Michelle Kwan featured athlete as part of Visa's '06 promotional activities & marketing campaign. Sounds like she's committed... at least to marketing the olympics...

http://www.brandweek.com/brandweek/features/feature_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000920745

KW

Grgranny · May 18, 2005

What I have thought all along is that she just doesn't want to announce anything saying yes or no. Mostly because she is kind of wanting to see how things are going before she decides. Especially in case she decides she just doesn't think she will win because after all the practicing, if she isn't doing as well as she wants, she can then decide whether she goes or not. In other words, she probably wants to just keep her options going until the time comes when she thinks she can or cannot win. The ones that would go in her place, if she decides not to go, should be practicing hard anyway so I can't see what difference it would make. I certainly can't blame her for keeping her options open. :scratch:

TNT2012 · May 18, 2005

Joesitz said:
Interesting post, Kyla - As you are aware I started a thread before Worlds on why I did not think Kwan would win, and you have added fuel to this fire. What scares me most from your thread is that the new family business is taking her away from Arutunian. Not a good sign at all.

If she is not going to the Olys, then I think it would be only decent for her to bow out before the Nats and give another US skater a chance for the Olys even if just for experience.

Joe

I don't understand how Michelle "bowing out" now or a day before Nationals would deprive any skater a spot on the Olympic team. If she doesn't compete at Nationals, then she will not qualify for the Olympics. And whoever finished in the top three will be representing the U.S. in Turin. On the other hand, if she does compete at Nationals and qualify for the Olympics, do you really think she would then changed her mind about going to Turin days before the Opening Ceremonies? Your statement leaves me a little puzzled indeed.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 18, 2005

TNT2012 said:
I don't understand how Michelle "bowing out" now or a day before Nationals would deprive any skater a spot on the Olympic team. If she doesn't compete at Nationals, then she will not qualify for the Olympics. And whoever finished in the top three will be representing the U.S. in Turin. On the other hand, if she does compete at Nationals and qualify for the Olympics, do you really think she would then changed her mind about going to Turin days before the Opening Ceremonies? Your statement leaves me a little puzzled indeed.

TNT - As you are aware, MK is very mysterious. She has no diary, no official website, etc. Much of what is said is conjecture from the fans. We do know now that there is a family business developing which I think MK is a part of. If the new rink is finished and MK will utilize it for the remainder of her practice, does it mean that Arutunian will follow her to the new rink? He is a human being and has a life of his own. Maybe MK will continue with him at the rink he works at. We don't know. She needs a coach. We know that from past perfomances.

We don't know if she will even do the GPs which she needs to regain her international popularity. We expect that she will do Campbells and medal while competing against the current Worlds silver medalist and a few other US wannabees. This is a very low ranking competition and she is quite aware that it does not spell 'I'm going Olys' nor does it impress the international judges and fans who will not be there. Campbells could be her swan song. We don't know.

Her bowing out now would ensure that another skater would get proper publicity and growing enthusiasm from fans. Those skaters deserve that.

Just my take on the mysterious one. I hope I'm clear that I am in the dark and guessing just like others. I'm just not going for the "Michelle will surprise us". I've heard that for some time now, and she hasn't.

Joe

flowjo35 · May 18, 2005

Kyla2, do any of the articles state that Michelle will not be training with her coach this summer or does it say he has a contract through the summer to that skating rink? Does it state that they would not get together on certain days to train together? One of the articles I saw (LA Times) stated Michelle and RA would be training this summer, but who knows. There are other coaches in this new facility like her brother-in-law (Peter) and sister (Karen), so on days she would not be with RA she would still have other resources. Also this is not directed at anyone but it seems to be the word around the net that Michelle has to state whether or not she will compete in the upcoming season. Is this being applied to other skaters as well?

Kwanford Wife · May 18, 2005

flowjo35 said:
this is not directed at anyone but it seems to be the word around the net that Michelle has to state whether or not she will compete in the upcoming season. Is this being applied to other skaters as well?

Good point. But then would it be the off season if we didn't spend tons of valuable time questioning MK's motivations & plans for the upcoming season?

As for her summer training ~ I did some light research trying to find out exactly what was going on with her & the hot Russian, but it all seemed pretty normal to me... Seriously. Would you build a state of the art training facility and then PAY the competition (Ice Castles) to train there? That would be bad business... The upside to all of this is that its very clear that MK will continue to be a force in figure skating & that's gonna be good for all... I also admire the fact that she's got a game plan post competitive skating.

KW

attyfan · May 18, 2005

Joesitz said:
... If the new rink is finished and MK will utilize it for the remainder of her practice, does it mean that Arutunian will follow her to the new rink? He is a human being and has a life of his own. Maybe MK will continue with him at the rink he works at. We don't know. She needs a coach. We know that from past perfomances.

We don't know if she will even do the GPs which she needs to regain her international popularity. We expect that she will do Campbells and medal while competing against the current Worlds silver medalist and a few other US wannabees ... .
Her bowing out now would ensure that another skater would get proper publicity and growing enthusiasm from fans. Those skaters deserve that ... Joe

First, has it ever occurred to us that maybe Kwan doesn't know what she should do yet? She is the one who risks injury from continued travel and competition, and more importantly, she is the one who risks becoming a National laughing stock as a "3 time loser" if she goes to Turino and loses (the chances of the American media letting her go to Olys for the low-pressure, low-expectations, low-demands event she should have had in 1994 [IMHO, Harding should have been dumped and alternate Kwan allowed to skate] are between slim and none)

Second, I don't think her bowing out now would insure the new skaters any more publicity or enthusiasm. In fact, the worst thing for them might be commentary like "Michelle Kwan would have ....." or [even worse] "the audience misses Michelle"

Third, Michelle has learned from her mistakes. She was told after Nagano that she needed a 3/3 (which she had in '96 and '97, but could not do in '98 due to a foot injury); at Worlds in 2000, she had her 3/3 back, and was the only woman to land a clean one. After SLC, the first thing she did was hire a coach. IMHO, she won't repeat this year's mistake of no CoP testing, I don't know if she could, even if she wanted to; remember $peedy's letter, informing the federations that skaters might be disciplined for skipping the GP, especially if they do cheesefests? If she can skip the GP, she still could get CoP feedback in time to tweak the program for Olys by competing at the 4CCs, instead of GP.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 18, 2005

Flojoe - None of the other skaters are saying that they are taking one day at a time before deciding to go to the Olys. The assumption that the other skaters want to skate the Olys is around 99.9%

Kwanford - The post competitive plans may have already begun. We don't know.

Michelle, has not surprised us in a long time unless you can cite some instances of surprise. Much of her WOW moves are old hat by now. Her lack of interest in international competitive skating is quite obvious. The laurels of the US Nationals and the COI give her what she wants. JMO.

When the Great Campbell's Competition rolls around, and MK does her usual thing. we will be reading that her program will be more competitive by the Olys. Just my prediction.

Joe

mandykane21 · May 18, 2005

Who has new tricks? Everybody always complains about Michelle doing nothing new, but who does new stuff? Irina isn't new, and how long has she been known as a jumping bean that sparkles but with sloppy technique? No one minds because Irina's winning, but that dosn't make it any less true (not that I'm knocking her or any of the other girls). She's tried harder spins, diffrent jump combinations, even tried to do something daring like skate to Bolero. They don't count cause she didn't win. I wonder if people want her to try something new or if they want her to do a Salome change all over again. Everybody has an opinon about what she should be doing with her career and maybe that's part of the problem as well. Last season, her long program changing but that was not a problem with her short. Maybe all she kept hearing was nothing she was doing was good enough. Maybe she dosen't know if it's worth it anymore and could any of us stay in a situation that's mainly negative? I'm not saying that it is, basically just throwing out ideas but that's about the best we can all do right now. Of course, she could also basically know what she's gonna do but hates dealing with the media and is trying not to have to. Also, I don't beileve that any new skater is going to suddenly get some new publicity or popularity if Michelle leaves. Can you imagine a bigger story than the most popular skater in the country (America's Sweetheart, no less!) suddenly splitting the year of the Olympics? :eek:

fscric · May 18, 2005

Great post, Mandykane21, ITA.

mzheng · May 18, 2005

Joesitz said:
If she is not going to the Olys, then I think it would be only decent for her to bow out before the Nats and give another US skater a chance for the Olys even if just for experience.

Joe

Why should she bow out for US nationals?
To her the next US Nationals(2006) is the next most important compitetion after the 2005 Nationals. (Noted not the 2005 Worlds.)

As for Rafael's not completely moving his trainning base to E/W Ice Place or 'his other commitment to Lake Arrowhead Rink' sooner, I think has more to do with the owner of Lake Arrowhead Rink -- Anthony Lui, he has always been wanting Rafael keep some hours up mountain. And the readyness of the new rink....Soon or late Rafael is going to move. I believe they are in it for long bissiness not just couple of season.

ETA, I had posted in another thread that besides the chasing the records (#9) at 2005 Naitonals there was other reason that made her so nervous and pressured at 2005 Nationals. Now this state of art new rink finally official opened because she secured the deal with East West Bank with her National winning.

lavender · May 18, 2005

Anthony Lui, he has always been wanting Rafael keep some hours up mountain. And the readyness of the new rink....Soon or late Rafael is going to move. I believe they are in it for long bissiness not just couple of season.

Does Rafael not want to use to rink as much at Lui wants him to?

sk8m8 · May 18, 2005

though off topic...sad but true, many rinks want major coaches to sign up with them as "attractions". Carol Ponti had almost free reign of the Broadmore in Colorodo Springs in the 60's and 70's when he was putting out champions. Now Co Sprgs. hardly needs an "anchor" due to it's long skating history, but Lake Arrowhead is up in the mountains and takes sacrifices for skaters and coaches to admit. My guess is that the owner doesn't want to sink all that money into a world class training facility with capacity for more skaters if there is a chance that he's going to have trouble renting out the ice time for elite skaters and all the aspiring elite skaters.

Just to bring it back to MK....Rafael is a treasure. I can understanding the owner wanting him there. Michelle chose him for a reason...he's considered one of the best "skate doctors" in country. Now with his coaching a world champion and some other great skaters he is finally getting the recognition he deserves.

I do wonder if he doesn't want to sign a long term contract because he wants to be able to work with skaters worldwide? I'm sure Dinev and others find it expensive to fly to California and lodge to do work.

skatergirlaj · May 18, 2005

don't know

I won't speculate whether she's COP phobic but she'll have to learn the new system or quit.

Kwanford Wife · May 18, 2005

skatergirlaj said:
I won't speculate whether she's COP phobic but she'll have to learn the new system or quit.

See, this is the thing... I'm not so sure she is CoP phobic as she might be over it & ready to move to the next phase of her life but needs the OGM to secure her spot as the GOAT and there's a HUGE difference in that... Is CoP different & hard to neogotiate? Absolutly. But fear inducing? Can't see it. Its figure skating! She's an athlete & I refuse to see how one more spin revolution & improved MITF could break her. Particularly since she always appears to be strong ~ mentally & physically.

Now, if she's over it ~ then there's nothing that can be done about that. Its her life & her career.

Joe Darling ~ please explain to me how any US skater could benefit from being known as MK's replacement? Heck, many speculate that Sasha's mental block comes from constantly chasing MK. Further, what is with the notion that if not for MK, other skaters would have a shot. As proven by Tara, if you have the talent & will you CAN beat her. Everything else is a "wuz robbed" Compete or go home.

MandyKane - great post. it does get tired to hear about how MK is unoriginal when sloppy skaters & skaters who have one moment & skaters who have poor basic skills & skaters with weak spirits get praised as the be all to end all... I'm not saying that everyone should be an uber of my favorite but DARN! this does get silly... whatever

Rant over.
KW

slutskayafan21 · May 18, 2005

It is interesting to read all the information of Michelle's uncertainty over her training site. Hopefully that is resolved as soon as possable. She has enough on her platter if she is going to compete next season.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 19, 2005

Kwanford Wife said:
Joe Darling ~ please explain to me how any US skater could benefit from being known as MK's replacement? Heck, many speculate that Sasha's mental block comes from constantly chasing MK. Further, what is with the notion that if not for MK, other skaters would have a shot. As proven by Tara, if you have the talent & will you CAN beat her. Everything else is a "wuz robbed" Compete or go home. KW

I hope you understood the meaning of replacement as being a substitue team player being sent into the game to replace someone who leaves the game for whatever reason.

I can't imagine anyone thinking Michelle and Sasha would not be on the Nats podium with one bronze medalist. However, if MK were to withdraw from the Nats for whatever reason, there would be two others besides Sasha to go to the Olys.

No one is disputing your take on talent and will.

Joe

Kwanford Wife · May 19, 2005

Joesitz said:
I hope you understood the meaning of replacement as being a substitue team player being sent into the game to replace someone who leaves the game for whatever reason.

I can't imagine anyone thinking Michelle and Sasha would not be on the Nats podium with one bronze medalist. However, if MK were to withdraw from the Nats for whatever reason, there would be two others besides Sasha to go to the Olys.

No one is disputing your take on talent and will.

Joe

Got it & thanks for clarifying that for me... After years & years of hearing that MK is holding the US program back because the up & comers cannot beat her, I get cranky. But there is no excuse for being cranky & then half reading posts & then responding to things I'm not comprehending... cheers to you!

KW

Kwan at the Crossroads and Choices

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