Kwan's Omissions | Golden Skate

Kwan's Omissions

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Here are a few I thought of. Can you name some others? and will we ever see these again in competitions?

Charolotte

Camels in both directions

Ina Bauer

3x3s

Joe
 

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
She did the camel spin in both directions at Campbell's to start this past season. We might just see this again, as the dual-directions is one of the factors that can take a level 1 spin to a level 2, or a level 2 to a level 3.
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
She's omitted the Charlotte (and the biellman, right?) but neither of them are hardly necessary--just a nice addition to a program.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
nicole_l said:
She's omitted the Charlotte (and the biellman, right?) but neither of them are hardly necessary--just a nice addition to a program.

Kwan did a Biellman??? :unsure:
 

Eeyora

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
I wish she would bring back some of these moves. Her charlotte certainly was beautiful and unique.Her Ina Bauer may not have had a lot of stretch but it still was pretty sight.
 

jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
It seems that Michelle has problem with salcow. She either did not put in the program or fell on it. Now salcow and loop are her weakest jumps. Michelle and her coach should work on them.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
She does loops and salchows. Where are the camels in both directions? the ina bauer? the 3x3s; the charlotte?

Those moves have disappeared from her repertoire. the jumps are still in.

Joe
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
The missing elements that Joe asks about were what I missed most in Kwan's Nationals and even more World's LPs this year and what had me most worried. I can't remember what exactly I said...but leaving out 3x3 for a moment, I said something like she may have a master plan to build up to Olympics, but that I was worried the plan wasn't going as planned. NOW, I don't have any inside information at all...I was just saying that from my very uninformed point of view, it would have made sense to me if Kwan just had great jumps (and hers have improved in some areas, while she has not included/or ommitted others) and improved spins this year, to add back in all the mitf and detail next year...but while her spins are better, the unusual for Kwan falls on jumps, ommitted jumps, lack of 3x3, combined with taking out the camel in both directions was what made me feel like 'her plan' (my made up master plan for her) was not working.

It's probably not fair to want Kwan to do it all....after she really has in many respects done it all and more; but I can't help but want to see one more Kwan masterpiece...one that shows off her superb edges, but also has mitf, heart/passion, and really great choreography. I'm still thinking about the choreography stuff from another thread, and it would be so wonderful to see Kwan with a cheorographic masterpiece...i'll stop ranting now.
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Joesitz said:
She does loops and salchows. Where are the camels in both directions? the ina bauer? the 3x3s; the charlotte?

Those moves have disappeared from her repertoire. the jumps are still in.

Joe

Did Kwan do a 3L at US Nats or Worlds? I thought she didn't - but my brain ain't what it used to be.

DG
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Joesitz said:
She does loops and salchows. Where are the camels in both directions? the ina bauer? the 3x3s; the charlotte?

Those moves have disappeared from her repertoire. the jumps are still in.

Joe

To be fair the triple loop isn't in her repetoire - she did not even include a place for one in her programs all season long, as people have rightly pointed out - there is no point in having it in the program unless she had a 3x3 planned because the CoP only allows 6 jumping passes plus one that has to be an axel type jump so she's better off leaving out a shakey triple and repeating another one.

I don't think bringing back any moves that she hasn't done the last few seasons is a good idea. A lot of her detractors complain that her programs all look alike and that she hasn't done anything new for years - bringing back things she's done before will only fuel that fire...she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. I don't care what she puts in her programs (if she decides to skate next season) i just hope she gets two prgrams that she loves and enjoys to perform. I'll enjoy watching her regardless.

Ant
 

nicole_l

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Kwan did a Biellman???
I think I misunderstood the thread for a second. As far as I know, Kwan never did a Biellman in a program, but that would mean that she's omitted it. But you're talking about moves that she's done in the past that she doesn't do anymore, right?
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Most posters do not understand my point. Whether Kwan leaves out a 3Loop or a 3Salchow it is not because she can't do these. I'm afraid our arm chair judges can not go beyond the last time a skater competed. She probably did not do the loop or the salchow because she was not in a position to execute them cleanly and Kwan is a perfectionist. Both those edge jumps are very difficult to do without cheating the entrances to the jumps. (Flips and toeloops are easier) If one watches closely you will notice most skaters do not leave the ice until they made a semi circle on the ice. Be that as it may. I would not include these jumps as omissions but I would considered them as misses.

I do not understand the rationale as to why she should not bring back these moves because of complaints by detractors? So what? Should Sasha cut out her I spin because it's now old hat? Of course not. Fans can be irritating but they are not the final judges. Ignore them as I do. What should she replace them with?

Emma - Exactly - I miss them too.

Joe
 

Doggygirl

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Joesitz said:
I do not understand the rationale as to why she should not bring back these moves because of complaints by detractors? So what? Should Sasha cut out her I spin because it's now old hat? Of course not. Fans can be irritating but they are not the final judges. Ignore them as I do. What should she replace them with? Joe

Ditto that!!
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I had thought she probably discontinued the Charlotte was because after she did it, then everyone else started doing it. I don't know if it helps much on points either, I doubt it.
 

K-Mo

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
I think it would be great if she "dusted off" a few of those old favorite moves as part of a no-holds-barred program that reminds all why we became fans. :love:
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Joesitz said:
Most posters do not understand my point. Whether Kwan leaves out a 3Loop or a 3Salchow it is not because she can't do these.

Well i'm not in a position to tell you what she's been doing in practice and maybe someone here does know but if the last time i saw her doing a triple loop was at worlds 2004 and then she has not attempted a triple loop in a competitive program since then the fear is that she's lost the jump. To my knowldge she hasn't left the triple salchow out all season - there was a place for it in the program, she fell on it at worlds but an attempt at it was made unlike the loop. As i've said unless she's going to do a triple triple she doesn't need it anyway

Ant
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
antmanb said:
Well i'm not in a position to tell you what she's been doing in practice and maybe someone here does know but if the last time i saw her doing a triple loop was at worlds 2004 and then she has not attempted a triple loop in a competitive program since then the fear is that she's lost the jump. To my knowldge she hasn't left the triple salchow out all season - there was a place for it in the program, she fell on it at worlds but an attempt at it was made unlike the loop. As i've said unless she's going to do a triple triple she doesn't need it anywayAnt
OK. We are saying that Kwan deliberately leaves out her triple loop after completing them last year. I'll be watching with baited breath this season for a triple loop. By the way, when did you last see the ina bauer, the charlotte, camels in both directions and the 3x3T?

Joe
 
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