Who's peaking?

Doggygirl · May 31, 2005

Joesitz said:
DG - I can't imagine the Russian Federation, the Japanese Federation and the American Asssociation not sending their 'star' skaters. It's easy enough to explain a problem after the fact (just in case some young whipper snapper like Taylor gets the bronze.) I believe the federations have that right to select their team with Nats being a factor but not the sole factor.

In all cases, it is not, repeat-not an international competition!

for the Russians it is pretty easy and will be Irina, Elena and Viktoria.
for he Japanese it is Shiz, Ando, and who?
for the Americans it is Sasha, Michelle and , who?

Joe

I hope MK wins fair and square given the $$ on the line with sponsorships. Yep - I'm sure somewhere in the rules the USFSA reserves the right to over rule any surprises that might (long shot) come about at US Nats. And I'm not even questioning that - I think MK and SC are two obvious choices fore the team (barring unforseen circumstances) at this stage.

I hope MK and SC skate their best so there is no room for controversy. That's my whole point, especially for MK and Visa.

DG

R.D. · May 31, 2005

DG- I'm not so sure I'm concerned so much about the sponsorships/money involved as I am about the media story/legacy issue that is going to be going around. The judges would rather keep kwan's streak going. That's why this will be nothing more than a circus parade. Not putting down Kwan, but just telling it like it is (or will be).

OK, here's the situation. You are a U.S. judge sitting in on Nationals. Cohen and Kwan both skate similarly great programs. Which one do you choose? The one who you think did a better job? Would you rather have Kwan break the record or Cohen take her first title? This is the situation, and I think in a close one the edge goes to Kwan. For Kwan to be beat she will have to be clearly outskated by somebody so that they have no choice but to give it to the other person.

Scoring system? What scoring system. Kwan will win, and that's that. The judges will make sure. Somebody will have to prove everybody wrong.

This hasn't been a real issue in the past, because Kwan has blown away the competition (for lack of a better word) so many times. But I wonder what would happen if it was close.

mzheng · May 31, 2005

Red Dog said:
OK, here's the situation. You are a U.S. judge sitting in on Nationals. Cohen and Kwan both skate similarly great programs. Which one do you choose? The one who you think did a better job? Would you rather have Kwan break the record or Cohen take her first title? This is the situation, and I think in a close one the edge goes to Kwan. For Kwan to be beat she will have to be clearly outskated by somebody so that they have no choice but to give it to the other person.

.

Well, Cohen had her great chances at both 2003 and 2004 Nationals, where judges and medias desperately wanted to crown Sasha. But it was Kwan who clearly out skated Sasha at LP took the title both times. At 2005 if the competetion was close, the edge might go to Kwan. But it was not close, MK took the title again...you never know whol will get the title if the competetion was close, it diddn't happen. No matter what you said/implied until Cohen clearly delivers at National then your argument might have a valid point.

There was a time, Kwan clearly out skated the reigning champion took the title.

There was a time, Tara clearly out skated the reigning champion took the title.

You want Cohen win Nationals, let her clearly out skated the reigning champion if judges still go with Kwan, then you can start your annual crownation, someone wuzrobbed, US judges wants keep record running, the endorsements conspiracy, etc. etc....These theory become too old whenever US nationals comes to the topic.

R.D. · May 31, 2005

where judges and medias desperately wanted to crown Sasha.

Who said the judges were? IMO, it was the press and the ABC commentators (particularly Peggy) that practically crowned her champion before the freeskate began. And I knew Kwan would win as soon as she took the ice anyway. She looked confident.

It's a hypothetical situation. Regardless of how one sees it, Kwan is heavily favored at Nationals. I didn't say anyone "wuzrobbed" or whatever, 'cause no one was. What I did say (more or less) is that since Kwan is the heavy favorite, she's going to win unless she's clearly outskated. And I don't see that happening.

You want Cohen win Nationals

I never said that. Assuming a little much...?

Mathman · Jun 1, 2005

I don't really see any reason why the judges would come into a contest hoping that Michelle will extend her streak, or that Sasha would finally break through, or that Kimmie would live up to the Miss Next hype, or any of the other media stories. The news media will write their stories regardless. The judges are there to judge a figure skating contest.

I also do not think that a close contest with attendent "controversy" is necessarily bad for the sport. Other sports have close contests. It just fuels more fan interest, it seems to me.

MM

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2005

I suppose the Nationals are important for the fans of Kwan and whether or not she establishes a new record.

Likewise the fans of Cohen are hoping for a first Nationals win.

I'm not terribly concerned about either of these two 'great' moments in figure skating. I'm interested in the once every four years Olympics, and who will be the third skater to go to the Olympics.

Joe

nymkfan51 · Jun 1, 2005

" Scoring system? What scoring system. Kwan will win, and that's that. The judges will make sure. Somebody will have to prove everybody wrong. "

Red Dog ... I think this is the part of your post that mzheng was talking about. It sort of rankled me a bit too. It "sounds" like you're saying the judges will give it to Kwan even if she doesn't deserve it, and seems to imply that you believe this has happened before. It's hard to tell what some things mean when you're reading them ... versus hearing someone telling you.

Mathman · Jun 1, 2005

Joesitz said:
I'm not terribly concerned about either of these two 'great' moments in figure skating. I'm interested in the once every four years Olympics, and who will be the third skater to go to the Olympics.

I don't kmow, Joe. The Olympics are a big nationalistic whoop-de-do, but is the quality of the skating any better than at "lesser" events? Sometimes Nationals provides thrilling moments and memorable performances quite the equal of the more frantically hyped events.

My most outstanding skating experience this year was Belbin and Agosto's show in aid of the tsunami victims.

MM

R.D. · Jun 1, 2005

The judges are there to judge a figure skating contest.

Let's hope so. (fingers crossed)

This goes for ALL competitions throughout the year.

Red Dog ... I think this is the part of your post that mzheng was talking about. It sort of rankled me a bit too. It "sounds" like you're saying the judges will give it to Kwan even if she doesn't deserve it, and seems to imply that you believe this has happened before. It's hard to tell what some things mean when you're reading them ... versus hearing someone telling you.

No, I'm saying that in a CLOSE battle I THINK that the edge will go to Kwan. But then of course there hasn't been a close one yet, so there's no way of knowing. I said this as a disclaimer:

This hasn't been a real issue in the past, because Kwan has blown away the competition (for lack of a better word) so many times. But I wonder what would happen if it was close.

'06 Nationals: Kwan wins. Mark my words- you heard it here first.

nymkfan51 · Jun 1, 2005

Red Dog ... from your lips to God's ears! :agree:

R.D. · Jun 1, 2005

" Scoring system? What scoring system. Kwan will win, and that's that. The judges will make sure. Somebody will have to prove everybody wrong. "

As for the part of my post that was quoted (re-quoted above), that was a harsh way of saying that:

Scoring system? What scoring system. Kwan will win, and that's that.

no matter what scoring system is used, Kwan is the sentimental and the overwhelming favorite, and she will come with her game face on, ready to kick butt.

The judges will make sure

If it is a situation like Worlds, something tells me that Kwan will still win (because it's in the US).

Somebody will have to prove everybody wrong.

It's up to one of the other skaters, if they are interested, to rise to the occasion and actually convince the judges to give it to them.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2005

Mathman said:
I don't kmow, Joe. The Olympics are a big nationalistic whoop-de-do, but is the quality of the skating any better than at "lesser" events? Sometimes Nationals provides thrilling moments and memorable performances quite the equal of the more frantically hyped events.

My most outstanding skating experience this year was Belbin and Agosto's show in aid of the tsunami victims.MM

Who says the quality in Nats are a 'lesser' event? The quality in Nats is the same quality from the same skaters as in the Olys (give or take a few spills). I'm already convinced that the two American divas will be in the Olys. I was just wondering about who the third gal will be? I'm sure the Nats will be fine and maybe one of the two divas will actually execute a 3x3. that would make it interesting for me. Almost as interesting will be who the 3rd gal will be.

Charitable skates are always a wonderful fulfilment for everyone.

Joe

TheBitch · Jun 1, 2005

Joesitz said:
I suppose the Nationals are important for the fans of Kwan and whether or not she establishes a new record.

Likewise the fans of Cohen are hoping for a first Nationals win.

I'm not terribly concerned about either of these two 'great' moments in figure skating. I'm interested in the once every four years Olympics, and who will be the third skater to go to the Olympics.

Joe

The Olympics are so overrated. Besides, is someone who wins at these Games necessarily better than those that win international competitions year after year? Just look at Sarah -- does anyone really seriously consider her among the skating greats? Her Olympic win was a fluke. The 2006 event will JUST be one other international competition, albeit just overly hyped up among athletes and viewers alike.

R.D. · Jun 1, 2005

Never mind- post removed

TheBitch · Jun 1, 2005

All the current top skaters have already peaked. Now, it's just a matter of who does the least mistakes or who's liked by the judges that they will employ all tactics to give their favorite the highest PCS marks regardless of performance. This past season should be a big enough clue...

kyla2 · Jun 1, 2005

Ita

ITA about the Olympics being overhyped and essentially just another competition. It shouldn't be the criteria by which we judge the skating greats/greatest. I mean really, can we remember for one minute who won the women's OGM in 1940 without checking for the information somewhere? I doubt it. But we will all certainly remember Michelle's record and Sonja Henie's (although she is not my favorite by a long shot).

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 1, 2005

kyla2 said:
ITA about the Olympics being overhyped and essentially just another competition. It shouldn't be the criteria by which we judge the skating greats/greatest. I mean really, can we remember for one minute who won the women's OGM in 1940 without checking for the information somewhere? I doubt it. But we will all certainly remember Michelle's record and Sonja Henie's (although she is not my favorite by a long shot).

ITA Kyla - As they say in ShowBiz, it's the body of work that counts - not the academy award.

Michelle has already accomplished that. Tara and Sarah are far from it. Oksana screwed it up. Maybe Irina will get that honor at this Olys.

Joe

princesse · Jun 1, 2005

kyla2 said:
ITA about the Olympics being overhyped and essentially just another competition. It shouldn't be the criteria by which we judge the skating greats/greatest. I mean really, can we remember for one minute who won the women's OGM in 1940 without checking for the information somewhere? I doubt it. But we will all certainly remember Michelle's record and Sonja Henie's (although she is not my favorite by a long shot).

FYI-There were no Olympics (either summer or winter) held in either 1940 or 1944 due to WWII. Thus, without checking the records, I can assure you that no one won any OGMs in 1940.

Who's peaking?

Doggygirl

R.D.

mzheng

R.D.

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

nymkfan51

Mathman

R.D.

nymkfan51

R.D.

Joesitz (RIP)

TheBitch

Match Penalty

R.D.

TheBitch

Match Penalty

kyla2

Joesitz (RIP)

princesse

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