Latest Kwan News (?)

According to a poster on FSU, who has a past record of providing reliable information, TT will be choreographing for Michelle:

www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26058

I'm not too worried about Michelle decimating the choreography. She knows very well the pressure of the Oly year, and for the past 3 years, she has had the luxury of being able to postpone dealing with it while she has a good time. It is now time for her to take up the burden -- and so far, she looks like she is serious about doing so.

Rafael is probably still in Rusia. Could be back this week though. The timing could be right.

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ETA- The earlier rumors that Kwan spent a month in CT, or whatever they were, are not true. She hasn't been there.
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She was seen at E/W rink at the weekend before her show on Today Show, she left Cal for Today Show afterwards. So the assumption that she was in CT then attend the Visa promotion and Today show was not true; that much I know.

Doesn't that seem like a conflict of interest to choregraph for Michelle since Shizuka is Tatianna's student? Does anyone know how the person on FSU got their information?

Dee

His MK's musical info in past a few seasons were very reliable. That much I know.

Actually, I think this is a better idear than last year using Dean. The choreographer must know extensive of CoP. Rafael never strike me as a person will go digg very details of CoP rules and milk every possible points like TT would do. Skaters, no matter how experience you are, can't keep all the tracks of points sometimes with all the other stuff in trainning you are just too exhausted to keep your mind in all those details.

Yes. conflict interest definitely. But last year TT also choreographed Julia S.'s program. Guess as long as not take both as your students it's OK?

If I'm not correct, let me know. A coach is different than a choreographer. A coach has a "gentleman's" obligation to stay away from competition but a choreographer does not have that unwritten rule.

If the rumor is true and I am skeptical, then Michelle will have the right person to work on those 'moves in the field' and 'transitiions'. That she could use for her program. TT knows this.

Whatever the music and the quality of the choreography is, Michelle is by far the best skater to put more of herself into the program. IMO, she was dazzling at US Nats with Tosca, and at Moscow with Bolero - two pieces of music I would not have let her use but she rises above all that.

Raphael does know the jumps and he made them solid. Even the spins have increased in rotations. MK will be in good hands with TT as well. Will it give her a medal at the Olys? I'm not sure this is kind of late to begin such a serious pursuit. But better late than never.

Will we get to see the finished product? at Campbells, at Marchalls, at the more important: the GPs? or will we have to wait for Nats and then the Olys?

It's up to MK.

Joe

This is all so intriguing...and isn't it early to get MK news for next season???? The tension that Olympic years bring is totally awesome (from this fan's point of view).

For someone that complained about MK's lack of MITF and transitions this past year, I agree with Joe that TT is clearly a good choice (assuming MK actually performs the choreography designed for her, and assuming of course this news is true). And leaving the loop aside, I agree with Joe that Rafael has been good for MK's jumps...they are stronger than before, so this could be the perfect combination for her.


I can't wait for more news. I wonder if there will be some confirmation of this, and if music choices will be 'leaked' or even announced too.

Joesitz said:

If I'm not correct, let me know. A coach is different than a choreographer. A coach has a "gentleman's" obligation to stay away from competition but a choreographer does not have that unwritten rule ... Joe

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Do all coaches from all countries follow the "unwritten rule"? Wasn't coach Sato coaching both Fumie and Miki for a while?IIRC, Moskvina coached both M & D and G & G when they were competing against each other in '94; she also coached K & D and B & S when they were competing against each other in '98. TT has coached competing ice dance teams; she is also working with both Tim Goebel and Johnny Weir.

Tarasova is Arakawa's coach and Kwan's choreographer. TT also choreographs for Tim Goebel and Johnny Weir and coaches Andrei Griazev. There is no conflict of interest since she does not have a continuing advisory role with any of the skaters for whom she does choreography only. In effect, TT is a consultant for them.

I think what TT would have liked from Sasha was the kind of emotional emphasis Kwan adds to her programs. Sasha skated TT's programs well, but never got the full effect from TT's choreography, and it wasn't just because of jump problems.

I just hope TT won't have Kwan skating to some old chestnut. Maybe she doesn't force music choices on the skaters she choreographs for, only on the ones she coaches.

The biggest surprise about that news was that TT went to Michelle. Others who want her to choreograph go to Simsbury for the summer like Johnny. I guess that rink opened just in time for Michelle to finance her blow-out season.

I hope it's true. IMO, it's exactly what she should be doing. I feel like Michelle working with TT will fill in the holes that have missing over the last few years. I hope so, anyway. My only concern is that it'll be a bit of overload after the approach she's taken recently. Maybe starting early, like now, will allow her enough time to get really comfortable with a more complex program and rerally be able to perform it.

attyfan said:

Do all coaches from all countries follow the "unwritten rule"? Wasn't coach Sato coaching both Fumie and Miki for a while?IIRC, Moskvina coached both M & D and G & G when they were competing against each other in '94; she also coached K & D and B & S when they were competing against each other in '98. TT has coached competing ice dance teams; she is also working with both Tim Goebel and Johnny Weir.

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Every coach is different, of course, but usually they do follow this rule. I'm not familiar with the inner working of the Sato team, so I'll adress the other two.

Moskvina always tries to have to competing teams; she believes that this competition makes them work their hardest even in practice as they'll always work to outperform each other. For instance, when she decided to coach a Russian team again, she took on not only Obertas & Slavnov, but also Borzenkova & Chuviliaev. However, to mitigate the potential conflict, she usually concentrates on her top billing team, while her husband (a first class coach himself; he actually used to coach her and Mishin) works with the #2.

The situation with Tarasova right now is indeed confusing, but I believe this is mainly because of the skaters currently working with her actually have someone else as their main coaches. Joubert's is Guyon, Weir's is Hill (though I think she is quite invested in him), Goebel's is Weisinger, Takahashi's is Nagamitsu. The only single man student she has who doesn't work with anybody else is Griazev. By the same token, she worked with Sebestyen, but Shizuka was her main focus (she only took her on after Sasha left her). I stronly believe that were she not working with Chait & Sakhnovsky, she would have been the one Denkova & Stavijski would have chosen over Linichuk. Of course, sometimes things don't go according to plan. Back in the early 80's, TT coached Moiseeva and Minenkov. She took on Betemianova & Bukin as her #2 team. The latter became so good she ended up favoring them, prompting M&M to finally leave.

There are of course other coaches who don't consder this type of a thing a problem at all. One name that comes to mind is Victor Kudryavtsev who is currently coaching Victoria Volchkova, Elena Sokolova, and Julia Soldatova (some of them work with his wife).

Another example of successful rivalry within the same coaching environment is Dubreuil & Lauzon and Delobel & Schoenfelder in the Boucher-Zazoie team. I think both teams have done very well under her guidance.

Of course, not all coaches can divide their attention like that. For instance, it's a well known fact that Mishin only has energy for Plushenko. Everyone else, including Basova, work with his wife.

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Anyway, going back to MK. I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Michelle's style is rather reserved, whereas TT favors over-the-top emotional displays. I do, however, agree that whatever she does will be CoP-friendly, and a step in the right direction in terms of MITF.

brad640 said:

The biggest surprise about that news was that TT went to Michelle.

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ITA

chuckm said:

I just hope TT won't have Kwan skating to some old chestnut. Maybe she doesn't force music choices on the skaters she choreographs for, only on the ones she coaches.

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Well, she certainly seems to have chosen Tim's music -- not sure whether she "forced it on him" but it sounds as though he had to be convinced initially.

If I were picking music for myself, I wouldn’t have picked these two pieces. But Tatiana went over, and over and over the music while choreographing the programs.

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He says about both his programs "I really like the music." I don't think that we'll see "Kwan Lake" -- at least I hope not! Anyway, if it hadn't already been used so much by top skaters the past few years, I wouldn't mind seeing Michelle skate to "Turandot" so I guess my tolerance for old chestnuts is selective -- no "Don Quixote" please!

brad640 said:

The biggest surprise about that news was that TT went to Michelle. Others who want her to choreograph go to Simsbury for the summer like Johnny. I guess that rink opened just in time for Michelle to finance her blow-out season.

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Of course she can't have an off the podium finish in Turino with all the endorsements deals so she has to get serious about the Olys enter mami tarasova. Do you really expect the Kweenie to go to Ct?

I'm with you SF5!!!

I would LOVE Nessun Dorma ... but no Don Quixote or Carmen!!!

Also ... there's some beautiful music from La Boheme ... have many skaters used this before?

nymkfan51 said:

Also ... there's some beautiful music from La Boheme ... have many skaters used this before?

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I remember that Silvia Fontana had a gorgeous program to La Boheme -- in 2000 or 2001, iirc. At least the music was gorgeous, but the performance I have on tape was not a good one. hwell:

When considering all of this, it's good to remember that top coaches love to work with top athletes. A whole list of folk that have "worked" with TT would fill several sheets of paper. I believe Madame Tarosova has consulted with most every top American skater as some point or the other. Mike Weiss gave her props for getting to work three days with her and improving his crossovers and stroking. Among the many things TT is well known for is as a "fixer." Many skaters work with her over a few days to help skaters improve/correct technique.
Perhaps it's her way of contributing to "Beautify America"...one skater at a time LOL

I have mixed feelings about this pairing :scratch: :scratch: . Regardless of what you think of Kwan, she has a style uniquely her own and what concerns me most about this pairing is:

1. The creation of a program that screams “TT did it!” b/c it looks like every other program TT has choreography. TT’s good, but just because it looks good on someone else, doesn’t mean it’s very flattering on you.
2. Music. She plays it soooo safe. One thing I do like about Kwan is that she doesn’t always skate to the top 40 skating music songs. I’ll gag if I hear this kind of music from Kwan…it’s so beneath her. Kwan’s demonstrated that she can skate to unique music, so why not continue to.

The idea of Kwan skating some Swan Lake-Dark Eyes-boring-typical-classical-music-that-everyone-else-has music, would be such a disappointment. IMO, it would be a HUGE regression for Kwan’s. Personally, I would have to question why she is even skating this year. Kwan has always “done it her way”, and wants to “push the envelope” so to betray that spirit by choosing some generic-pretty-classical-music would have me questioning her motives for Turino. Perhaps I’m reading too much into it, but I would view it as the “easy” way out, rather than sticking to what she does best and doing it her way.

Secondly, I do think TT can bring out some of the in-betweens that have over time, evaporated from Kwan’s programs. I understand the idea of simplicity and making the few movements really mean something, but IMO, Kwan’s just been skating from element to element. I WOULD NOT however, want to see any of the same TT trademark moves that we see in all the other TT programs…esp. the whacky toe-pick footwork.

I guess what has me concerned is that Kwan has always tried to be herself and set her own standards. She’s not looking to Sasha, Jenny, Shiz, Slute etc. for inspiration in choreography…If anything, we see them looking to Kwan for inspiration. For Kwan to come away from TT with something not completely uniquely her style with TT’s help would be very disappointing. I’d rather her go back to the ultra simple choreographer than sell her “style-soul” out for a medal…..

Just my opinion….
Darby

dwiggin3 said:

I have mixed feelings about this pairing :scratch: :scratch: . Regardless of what you think of Kwan, she has a style uniquely her own and what concerns me most about this pairing is:

lotsa concerns snipped....

I guess what has me concerned is that Kwan has always tried to be herself and set her own standards. She’s not looking to Sasha, Jenny, Shiz, Slute etc. for inspiration in choreography…If anything, we see them looking to Kwan for inspiration. For Kwan to come away from TT with something not completely uniquely her style with TT’s help would be very disappointing. I’d rather her go back to the ultra simple choreographer than sell her “style-soul” out for a medal…..

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Michelle is on the record as not wanting to entirely remake herself just for the sake of the ISU's NJS. I think that she approached TT so that she would have someone who really seemed to know/be adept with all the details of CoP and ways to maximize that. I think that Michelle's skating "style-soul" is already strong enough to resist any attempts to make her into anyone else's image. TT's work for Yagudin was quite different than her work for Kulik, so I don't think she is capable of only choreographing for one type of skater. And in the final end, TT may be doing the choreo, but Michelle will be doing the skating (and interpreting). Since working out the choreo is a two-way interactive partnership, I will remain hopefully positive about this pairing -- unless/until I hear that Michelle is skating to Don Quixote and/or Swan Lake!

All very good points skatingfan5..

I think this is exactly what Michelle should do, though I am sceptical it is true as well. Tatiana has been known to completely turn around skaters but not change their personal style significantly, and this is exactly what Michelle needs. Especially the part that many previous posters have stated, CoP. Not having a CoP friendly program killed Michelle last year. Do we know yet if she is going to be on the Grand Prix? I'm really hoping that she is! My the Grand Prix is going to be so exciting with all the biggest players on the field!