- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
janetb said:I kind of doubt that this person was critical of Kwan at least, since the majority of member of this board lean heavily to being Kwan fans. In fact when I criticized Kwan’s current lack of technical skills, most notability the current lack of a loop, I was told that because I was criticizing for a negative view point my criticism/opinion where not valid.
Your doubt is wrong unfortunately - go and check the thread i got into quite a debate with Joesitz because my view was that Kwan didn't "have" a triple loop anymore because i haven't seen her complete one in compeititon for a long time. Joe countered with the fact that she has been landing in them practice and just because she doesn't have one in her competitive programs doesn't mean its gone. I'm more than happy to criticise any skater at this level. The presumption from me is that all of them are pretty much on the level of gods in terms of figure skating, they are the best in the world, the things they can achieve are unbelievable and i point out flaws in all of their skating because each of them maybe have a handful of things that take away from their perfection. I'm not putting them down i'm just noting the few small things that detract from their total and utter perfection.
No she's not - she gets her fair share of criticisms - everyone has mentioned her speed on her spins, the height of her jumps, at the start of her career her lack of speed/flow. The thing that gets Kwan brownie points is that she has worked on all of these things and improved. She really worked on her speed and flow in the summer before the 95/96 easons and it showed - everyone commented on her faster speed. After she switched to Arutunian her height and attack on her jumps improved. She's gotten her spin speed up a bit more recently but still needs to work on new/more difficult positions. There are some criticsims of other world class skaters that people have always made and they seemingly have made no attempt to get better at them - i think that's why some people cut Kwan a bit more slack.janetb said:What really gets me is that while people right large tracts on Sasha's edges/flutz and how Irena pumps her back when she strokes, now it appears that some people think she telegraphs her flip, yet Kwan is sacrosanct.
janetb said:Let's get real Kwan may go down in history as having 5 world gold medals but Irena will go down as the best female technical skater of the last 5 years with having landed two 3/3 for the first time .
Was Irina really the first ladies skater to land two triple/triples in an LP? I could have sworn Bonaly landed 3sal/3toe and 3flip/3 toe in an LP in around '95 if not before.
janetb said:Not too many people remember many of male medalists from 60’s but we all know who Donald Jackson is. Irena belongs to a much more exclusive group skater’s than Kwan does those that have completed first in competition. People like Irena, Jackson, Burka, Axel Paulson, Dick Button, Kurt Browning and Midore Ito are part of group of which there are only 28 members.
And of course no one knows who Janet Lynn, Dorothy Hamil, Robin Cousins and John Curry are do they? They might not have pushed the technical envelope but all are rememberd for their exquisite artistry, edges and quality of their basic skating. Kwan changed the way people had to do their programs, why? Because she came out as a teenager and consistently did the seven triple programs, then added a triple/triple to boot and the judges were giving the nod to the quality of skating all jumps being equal. I have no doubt that Irina will go down in the History books as one of the best jumpers of her era and for such a long period of time - that is some achievement, but they both will go down in history for many things - i'm guessing but one of the longest rivals in the sport - look at the results databases - you see two or the three names battling each other for about 3 years and that's it - the last ten years is filled with Kwan/Slutskaya. they are both AMAZING!!
janetb said:Michelle Kwan will never belong to this group because she is more interested in winning medals than pushing the sport. Personally I have a lot more respect for Irena and her skating than for Michelle because push yourself and your sport are what the Olympic spirit is all about.
Yeah she never pushed the technical envelope at all - deciding to switch to a solo triple flip at '95 worlds short instead of the 3 toe that most of the ladies were doing in the short. Adding the 3/3 the following season in addition to maturing her presentation and basic skating skills. Technical does not just mean jumping either - there are spins and footwork to consider. I think Kwan and Yags are two of the few skaters that actually do justice to Morosov's footwork and make it look graceful and beautiful despite the amount of toe pick and heel used - that is technically challenging. If pushing the boundaries of the sport are all you're intersted in then take a look at Tara and her 80 year old hips on a teenagers body...that makes me really sad for her and i hope she thinks it was all worth it. Her programs were just awsome but at what cost to her? Look at Yags too - him having to cut his elligible career down because of the injuries caused by pushing the envelope is extremely sad.
I guess we all value different things in this sport.
Ant