A question about Sasha's back flexibility and technique...

I don't care a whole lot about Sasha's spread eagles or Ina Bauer, although her layback spin position is gorgeous. I believe a skater should be evaluated based on skating ability (blades, edges, security on ice) rather than flexibility alone.

Shizuka has the best ina bauer, IMO. I also love Yukina Ota's- everything she does is so natural (where is she? I miss her). I find Sasha's positions a bit forced or strained. Not being an expert on this topic it is hard for me to describe it using the right terminology.

Very few ladies have great spread eagles. In fact I don't think any of them has great outside spread eagles. Elena Berezhnaya does great inside ones.

Vash

Is this a good spread eagle position?

http://www.scratchspin.com/2001/masters01/fs-0104619.jpg

Vash, are these examples of "inside edge spread eagles?" Can you do this without a partner?

http://www.silverbladetours.com/images/photos/gallery/big/skateamr2.jpg

http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/especiales/2002/02/olimpiadas/albumes/07/01.jpg

MM

Mathman, yes, those B/S pictures are of inside spread eagles. The 2nd one would be a bit hard to do without a partner, because of the arch outside of the circle, but it is possible to do a gorgeous one with a bit of an arched back. Personally, I think that the best inside spreadeagle done today is Jeff Buttle's.

http://jeffrey-buttle.com/photos/SC03/fp/2.jpg
http://www.geocities.jp/yumiusa3/jeff/photo/sc03_fp03.jpg

Mathman,

Screech already answered the question about the inside spread eagles by Elena in the B&S pictures.

The first pic you posted - Michelle doing outside spread eagles- is not a good SE position. Most ladies have difficulty getting into a really good outside SE position.

Vash

Mathman said:

Is this a good spread eagle position?

http://www.scratchspin.com/2001/masters01/fs-0104619.jpg

Click to expand...

MM - Kwan's position int he spread eagle isn't very good. To be fair - from the picture it looks like she's just hit th eposition with her feet and is just getting her body into postion so she's breaking at the waist. Her gfeet are usually farther apart than that when she's in the midst of the move.

Despite the comment though, generally Kwan doesn't have great Spread Eagle - its not a bad spread eagle but she doesn't quite manage to get that straight line from the edge of the blade right through to the top of her head which is the ideal position. I think ladies generally struggle with the line in this move.

As has been mentioned already - of the current crop of eligibles no-one does it better thatn Jeffry Buttle. Looking back though Paul Wylie and Brian Boitano are also on that list - the angle on the lean in some pictures looks as if they wer at 45 degree angles to the ice...truly amazing!

Ant

I know photos don't tell the whole story, but since we were talking about flexibility, it looks to me that Kwan isn't turning out her hips...

I agree with the poster that said Buttle has great inside spread eagles...they are just gorgeous.

I've seen some very nice ones from Petrenko in recent years. Healy has a beautiful one and so did Curry.

I think this has to do with a combination of body type and posture, or more specifically, the ability to "pull up" from the sternum in ballet terms, as well as turnout. From the side, Buttle is one line, with a little bump for his butt, much like Curry. He posture is almost martial. Kwan and Weir have more of a curve in their lower spine (or sway back), which makes it more difficult to achieve that line in spread eagle. Berezhnaia and Healy are also pulled up and have a straighter body line.

The bend from the waist is, too often, an attempt to achieve turnout. The skaters with a "true" spread eagle don't bend from the waist in preparation for a spread eagle.

Othman's is another one to watch. Like most of his skating, it's "like buddah."

Joubert does a modified version, in the equivalent of "third" position, where one leg is slightly in front of the other. He trades being parallel for greater turnout.

Boitano had the best outside spread eagles, IMO. Wylie had one of the best inside ones. John Curry had excellent spread eagles. I will have to watch Buttle again to see where I would rank him.

I remember seeing photos of Jeff's ISE and OSE. Both looked straight line from blades to head. And his ISE was in an amazing lean edge.

Mathman said:

Is this a good spread eagle position?

http://www.scratchspin.com/2001/masters01/fs-0104619.jpg

MM

Click to expand...

What Michelle has here is body language! . How many skaters just give a text book spread eagle with nothing of themselves? Some do it as an entrance to another trick but for the most part it is just hom hum basic. So many do them well but no body language .

Joe