Why do you dislike Navka/Kostomarov? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Why do you dislike Navka/Kostomarov?

fml99

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
In defense...

I realize that this is almost a "bash N&K" discussion (heh heh), but to their credit, or at least to N's, I think it's great to see someone back on the ice and skating at that level AFTER HAVING A CHILD. Ice dancing, vs the other disciplines, would be more physically amenable to that, but still, it is very impressive and rare to compete at any demanding sport after giving birth.

I do really like N&K's skating, for their flow and elegance, although I agree that they are often overscored. I loved their pink panther-austin powers free dance, but their tosca routine wasn't anything special (and actually a huge disappointment after viewing their other routines).

I agree that D&S have more technical skill, and it annoys me that they are often underscored vs N&K, but they are sometimes sloppy in their execution, and unfortunately, the judges have given N&K the benefit of the doubt over N&K in these cases.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
fml99 said:
I realize that this is almost a "bash N&K" discussion (heh heh), but to their credit, or at least to N's, I think it's great to see someone back on the ice and skating at that level AFTER HAVING A CHILD. Ice dancing, vs the other disciplines, would be more physically amenable to that, but still, it is very impressive and rare to compete at any demanding sport after giving birth.
Hmmm... Just wondering... Who other than Rodnina and Gordeeva have skated in Olympics after giving birth?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Hmmm... Just wondering... Who other than Rodnina and Gordeeva have skated in Olympics after giving birth?

I think Peggy Schwartz in 1998 and Zuzana Babiakova in 2002.

Probably some others earlier in the 20th century whose biographies are less public, but not a lot. And not at the same level as the Olympic champions you mentioned.

Although Schwartz & Muller did medal at WORLDS in 1998.
 
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lulu

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
ATW27 said:
Joe, I think Lulu was simply replying to Ladskater, who said she couldn't recall N&K at this moment; I don't think she was trying to say "they are the reigning Worlds Champions, worship them!" At least, that's how I read it.

Andy W.

Thanks Andy.
Simply trying to explain who N&K were. Certainly not saying that N&K should be "worshipped" because they are the reigning ice dancing champions. :

________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the corrected website address. :D

________________________________________________________________

I knew about Gordeeva, Rodnina & Schwartz, but had no idea that Babiakova had a kid too. I guess I need to improve my knowledge on the personal factoids of obscure skaters. ;)
Another woman who skated in the Olympics after giving birth is Kristy Wirtz.
 

nuge

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 22, 2003
N/K being the champions should be coming out with some original and interesting exciting programmes.Unfortunately they do not do that .They should be as they say pushing the boundaries bending the rules a little like T/D D/D and G/P .But they are dull dull dull .They may look good together skate lovely have great costumes etc but they are not exciting .Everything they do is safe .One OD looks like the next .I would like them to be beaten soon and B/A look the likely candidates. :yes:
 

icedancingnut31

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Feel free to add your own! If any N/K fans actually exist, make yourselves known, if you dare![/QUOTE]

I am a fan of them they are amazing
 

Yazmeen

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
They are excellent ice dancers, they have beautiful technique.

Emotionally, they leave me cold. They trigger no emotional reaction in me whatsoever. Their presentation seems forced, phony and too theatrical. There's just no "real" there, emotion-wise.

Belbin and Agosto leave me smiling for ages. I loved Bourne and Kraatz, Klimova and Ponamerekno, Krilova and partner (I'm tired, his name escapes me), Usova and Zhulin and Usova and Platov, the Duschenay's, B and B, and most of all Torvill and Dean. I enjoy Gregory and Petukov, Stiegler and Mazerovsky, and I thought Annasina and Peizerov were breathtaking. The ice dance teams who have left me cold are N and K, Pasha (can't really blame Evgeny) and Fusar Poli and Margaglio. In each case, its mostly the female skater--she's overly domineering in style, cold and almost calculating. There's just not an emotional connection with the partner that is so important.

By the by, I've become a student of ice dance over the past 7 months and compete basic solo dance, so I'm paying more attention to (and love) this end of the sport more each day. But my opinions on these skaters I've mentioned that hasn't changed. There's just a calculating coldness there that leaves me cold.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I agree that N/K are cold and unappealing. They skate together as if they don't even know one another and have just paired up for the dance. And all their numbers look the same, even ones as disparate as the Pink Panther and Tosca.

Compared to Annissina and Peizerat, N/K are cardboard characters---pretty to look at but flat.

I don't care much for Delobel/Schoenfelder, either. They are great technicians at times, but they don't relate to one another a whit.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I don't find that much diversity in Russian Dance. There is always excellent technique and always the same style of the couples. they don't vary much except when they are doing an American dance.

N and K just don't have the character of that dark music and I think that is the problem in their not relating to each other.

Joe
 

Shanti

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Joesitz said:
I don't find that much diversity in Russian Dance. There is always excellent technique and always the same style of the couples

Joe

:frown2: :confused:
Do you mean Gritchuk/Platov, Krylova/Ovsyannikov, Lobacheva/Averbukh and Navka/Kostonmarov (to mention just the most recent Russian Ice dancers) are alike? Please elaborate ... I'm confused .
 

John King

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yazmeen said:
They are excellent ice dancers........, Krilova and partner (I'm tired, his name escapes me),
......


There were three.Vladimir Leliukh,circa 1989,Vladimir Fedorov,with whom she won a World Bronze 1993,and Oleg Ovsyannikov,from 1994 till they retired last year.Not too off-topic,but in every interview I've seen on TV,she always refers to Oleg as "my partner",never by name,LOL!
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Shanti said:
:frown2: :confused:
Do you mean Gritchuk/Platov, Krylova/Ovsyannikov, Lobacheva/Averbukh and Navka/Kostonmarov (to mention just the most recent Russian Ice dancers) are alike? Please elaborate ... I'm confused .
I did indeed and it's JMO.

Joe
 

NansXOXOX

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Joesitz said:
I did indeed and it's JMO.

Joe

I know you expressing your opinion, and I don't want to speak for Shanti, but I think she would like to know what it is you are basing your opinion on. I'm curious about that as well. Could you elaborate?

Nan
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
First of all, I am not putting Russian dancers down. I am always in awe watching their technique. Most of those teams look almost flawless to me. That is one reason I find them similar. What I am saying is their presentations are very much in the same school of facial expressions and body language, which their fans love to call 'passion' which I just don't see as anything special.

I'm not arguing their ability to win medals. Most of their medals were deserved in my opinion. There are exceptions, though.

Joe
 

screech

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
Personally, I much prefer N/K to B/A. I mean, Agosto isn't too bad, and Tanith isn't horrible, but it would be nice if she would straighten her legs, and turn out from her hips... I just don't think they're a top of the world team (yet) - they don't really have the basic techniques perfected and kinda try to cover it up with their other stuff. N/K on the other hand excel at the basic things like line, carriage, ease of speed, flow, lilt... things like that - and I'm one of those who prefers seeing someone with superb basic skating skills than seeing someone who lacks a bit in that department and is just showier.
 

NansXOXOX

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Thank you for your response, Joe, I never thought you were putting Russian ice dancers down.

The difference between the way you and I see these teams illustrates how two judges can score skaters so differently. I find Lobacheva/Averbukh and Navka/Kostomarov and the "late" team of Novikov/Kulikova as different in style and presentation as three points of a triangle. I suppose this difference of opinion is what makes figure skating so much more interesting as a sport to me than track and field. Time and distance are measured the same way for those athletes no matter what their "style" is, not quite as exciting or interesting to me.

Nan
 

boggartlaura

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
NansXOXOX said:
Thank you for your response, Joe, I never thought you were putting Russian ice dancers down.

The difference between the way you and I see these teams illustrates how two judges can score skaters so differently. I find Lobacheva/Averbukh and Navka/Kostomarov and the "late" team of Novikov/Kulikova as different in style and presentation as three points of a triangle. I suppose this difference of opinion is what makes figure skating so much more interesting as a sport to me than track and field. Time and distance are measured the same way for those athletes no matter what their "style" is, not quite as exciting or interesting to me.

Nan
I completely agree. I can't image someone saying that N/K, G/P, K/O, and L/A are all alike, because to me, they all have completely different styles.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
To me, saying that Bestemianova & Bukin and Klimova & Ponomarenko are alike seems bizare. The former were emotional to the point of being called over-the-top by many; the latter were almost academic in many of their programs.
 
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